Binaural , Ambisonics , Q-Sound

[Pontoneer]

I really didn’t know much about UHJ besides just seeing the term(s) thrown around here and there. After looking into it the technology does sound intriguing, but of course good luck tracking down the equipment. No wonder these formats never took off.....besides the technical mumbo-jumbo that is confusing to someone who is already well versed in “quad speak”, you have to have a special box with multiple dials and switches to be able to hear it.

The average person just wants to put the tape/album/CD in and hit play. Of course there are people like us who love multiple knobs, buttons and displays, but we are the vast minority. Oh well, another oddball technology that got lost in the shuffle.

The main unit I was aware of was the IMF one ( same company as the loudspeakers ) ; it was a very rare product , like their turntable .

https://www.falconacoustics.co.uk/imf-ambisonic-decoder-type-d20b-3877.html

https://zstereo.co.uk/2014/06/25/im...4e1efbf54f385de44fa5b35d8d44cea#comment-67404

 

[4-earredwonder]

When NIMBUS produced about a dozen or so MLP DVD~A 4.0 discs some years back, those expecting discrete elements in the rears from these former UHJ Ambisonic masters might be a tad disappointed. They contained Ambience, only.

My Meridian 861 Pre~Pro has a built in Ambisonic decoder and all those NIMBUS UHJ RBCDs played through it contained ambient only surrounds!

 

[Mark Anderson]

When NIMBUS produced about a dozen or so MLP DVD~A 4.0 discs some years back, those expecting discrete elements in the rears from these former UHJ Ambisonic masters might be a tad disappointed. They contained Ambience, only.
My Meridian 861 Pre~Pro has a built in Ambisonic decoder and all those NIMBUS UHJ RBCDs played through it contained ambient only surrounds!

Yes, you are correct when using a soundfield mic as the performers are located on a stage in front of you and what you hear from the rears is the performance space. In order to get music from the rears would be to have the performers in a circle around the mic or use a pan-pot mixing board to pan things to the rear, ie. Alan Parsons-Stereotomy or Steve Hackett-Till We Have Faces

 

[4-earredwonder]

I also tried playing the exceptional sounding UHJ encoded Cowboy Junkies TRINITY SESSIONS AP remastered SACD through the Ambisonic Decoder on my Meridian Pre/Pro and again, ambience only as well as the '5.1' DVD Cowboy Junkies TRINITY REVISITED and the 5.1 sonics, again, was rear ambience only.

 

[Mark Anderson]

I also tried playing the exceptional sounding UHJ encoded Cowboy Junkies TRINITY SESSIONS AP remastered SACD through the Ambisonic Decoder on my Meridian Pre/Pro and again, ambience only as well as the '5.1' DVD Cowboy Junkies TRINITY REVISITED and the 5.1 sonics, again, was rear ambience only.

They only used a soundfield mic on that one also

 

[4-earredwonder]

They only used a soundfield mic on that one also

And of course, if you watch the Video all the performers are front stage centric ...... but they could at least have spread out the instruments via a tasteful discrete remix!

 

[HomerJAU]

What I’d really like to find is a VST plugin for a DAW like Reaper; I’m not really wanting to spend $5-600 for another used piece of gear. Do you know of any?

I think Penteo Pro has Ambionics decoding and encoding Pup. Take a look at the input and output channel options.

 

[J. PUPSTER]

I think Penteo Pro has Ambionics decoding and encoding Pup. Take a look at the input and output channel options.

Man can I be thick sometimes thanks Garry, this is gonna bemore fun!

Any idea which one I should use though?

 

[HomerJAU]

1st Order is quad (4 channel)
2nd is 9 channel
3rd is 16 channel

That’s about all I know, but there’s a wealth of info on the www.

I guess you can experiment by attempting to decode an existing UHJ Quad source and set input to AmbiX 1st order and output to Quad. You should get a decoded quad wav or FLAC.

 

[J. PUPSTER]

1st Order is quad (4 channel)
2nd is 9 channel
3rd is 16 channel

That’s about all I know, but there’s a wealth of info on the www.

I guess you can experiment by attempting to decode an existing UHJ Quad source and set input to AmbiX 1st order and output to Quad. You should get a decoded quad wav or FLAC.

Thanks for the info, sounds like I should try a shootout, just for kicks, between Penteo 4.0, Involve 4.0 and AmbiX 1st order

 

[Mark Anderson]

there’s a wealth of info on the www.

A very good primer on Ambisonics
Ambisonic Surround Sound FAQ

And some more links
AMBISONIC LINKS ON THE WEB

 

[HomerJAU]

This is a good start:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambisonics

 

[J. PUPSTER]

and I'm really not expecting the second coming of Quad with this stuff BTW, just a little something new (for me) to play with

 

[fizzywiggs41]

RE Pink Floyd in Q-Sound , and (Binaural)

To the best of my knowledge Q -Sound was used on 2 of Roger Waters albums . Namely "Amused To Death" and his live album "In The Flesh".
And Also on the Pink Floyd Album -"Pulse"

In the flesh liner notes ,Pulse liner notes ,and , finally amused to death liner notes .

 

[fizzywiggs41]

As to Pink Floyd and Roger Waters using Q sound on The Final Cut , Pros and Cons .....my recordings clearly state the use of Hugo Zuccarelli's "Holophonics"

First pic is Pros And Cons 2nd pic is The Final Cut Final Cut ,liner notes

 

[fizzywiggs41]

Additionally Roger Waters had a Broadcast on FM encoded in "Holophonics".(see pic)


I'm not aware of any other use of "Q Sound" for Pink Floyd nor Roger Waters . Or should I state I don't have any other of Waters/Floyd's use of any other System .

However I believe I read that Rick Wright had his 2nd solo album in "Q Sound" , Richard Wright-Broken China.

Nevertheless no other Group of artists were willing to commit to experimenting with Binaural Surround or Stereo Expansion systems on their albums as the members of Pink Floyd .

 

[kfbkfb]

http://www.pspatialaudio.com/quad_ambi.htm#ambisonics
The "Working CD-4..." thread has a post about an emulator that operates under Windows (for Apple computers).


Kirk Bayne

 

[fizzywiggs41]

And of course, if you watch the Video all the performers are front stage centric ...... but they could at least have spread out the instruments via a tasteful discrete remix!

From what I can see on that video of "Trinity Revisted" they used multiple mics. You can see multiple mic'ing throughout the panned camera shots just above each artist.
But in one shot on a video you can see a single standee large microphone, which resembles a omnidirectional mic. In short they used a lot of locational mics for that concert.

My personal opinion and viewing observations of that concert and auditory displacement of Sound suggests to my ears there is more than ambience in the rears . Unfortunately it is in Dolby Digital , but I've heard worse.

 

[stevendive]

What I’d really like to find is a VST plugin for a DAW like Reaper; I’m not really wanting to spend $5-600 for another used piece of gear. Do you know of any?

There is the ambisonic toolkit (ATK) for Reaper that might do what you need:

https://www.ambisonictoolkit.net/documentation/reaper/

 

[doity]

and I'm really not expecting the second coming of Quad with this stuff BTW, just a little something new (for me) to play with

Well from what I was reading, the promoters of the format were making it out to be better than Quad. Their reasoning was that the listener didn’t have to be at one stationary point in a given room to get the effect. They also claimed that the 4 channel output was more encompassing, as if to say that quad was lacking somewhat and not very realistic.

Or at least that is how I read it.