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Apparently it sounds like this because of "interference from the band"...
Black Sabbath - Vol. 4 Super Deluxe Edition (with some Steven Wilson mixes) Feb 12th, 2021
- Thread starter steelydave
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Apparently it sounds like this because of "interference from the band"...
The Castle 1986 CDs are mostly all wonderful (with one live bonus track) and get less and less good press / praise as more folks spend on pricey later versions. Sabbath Bloddy Sabbath in that early CD pressing has sound so close (exact in fact) to my original UK LP that I never looked further. I just never believed that sound gets better and better and better with each new expensive reissued limited import from Japan only.
jimfisheye
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Didn't want it released, so demanded a ruined copy release only?
One of the band members is losing hearing and demanded this personally mastered for their ears only?
Sharon?
I don't see a winner here.
More harsh eq damage than compression damage on this one. I found a way to at least listen to the new mixes of the outtakes.
JediJoker
2K Club - QQ Super Nova
Typical... Sadly.
If they lost the multitracks to the main album then they should have just had the outtakes mixed in surround. No?
Looks like they're releasing a Super Deluxe box for Sabotage in June. LP set or CD set. No surround though, as far as I can tell. SHF indicates this is legit.
https://www.recordshopx.com/artist/black_sabbath/sabotage/#734258
https://www.recordshopx.com/artist/black_sabbath/sabotage/#734258
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Yeah, I saw that. Minimally, I was hopeful Wilson was involved again...doesn't look like that's the case. I'll pass, as much as it pains me to say...
I am disappointed that 4.0 or 5.1 opportunities are being missed in the BS sets. I would love to hear the BS collection in surround. I'm glad I at least have Paranoid in 4.0.
I know, because I would be buying them. But because I have original vinyl, first issued CDs, a couple of remasters, some other collector's items, I am not springing for these unless they give us 5.1 surround. I have a feeling they are waiting for the next round of big box sets. It used to feel like they were giving us their all when these sets come out. But later we find that yet more tapes were found, another good outtake, and a fresh new mix comes at the 6oth. Or we will get BluRays with 5.1 a year after the big box sets.
jimfisheye
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Not only are these not going back for surround remixes, they're not even going back to even half way decent copies of the stereo masters. This edition of Vol 4 here is hands down the worst most distorted copy of this album ever released. And there was a really bad one previously that should not have been possible to make even worse!
Is this a "novelty" release? Something about the package or artwork and the recording included is just a blurry reflection of the actual audio for some reason? Or is this genuinely a really glaring embarrassing screw up? And then why wasn't it held back? The only other explanation is intentionally cheapened. The marketing strategy where you do something cheap intentionally to leave room for an upgrade sale down the road. That sounds like crazy talk. Surely someone would realize that you can't do that strategy with audio? It would sure explain some of the releases we see though. Like this one.
Black Sabbath is one of the hardest bands to collect albums for! There are no good digital copies. The original Castle CD editions are the closest (for the 1st 6 albums). Those all have high end eq boosts. They might be mastered for vinyl eq'd tape copies. No where near the ear bleeding high end screech of the volume war editions but still a problem. Some of the original UK vinyl is still the best sounding. Everything else sounds like a copy of that and not well for it. The newer digital versions sound like distorted copies with the treble goosed up to 17!
Is this a "novelty" release? Something about the package or artwork and the recording included is just a blurry reflection of the actual audio for some reason? Or is this genuinely a really glaring embarrassing screw up? And then why wasn't it held back? The only other explanation is intentionally cheapened. The marketing strategy where you do something cheap intentionally to leave room for an upgrade sale down the road. That sounds like crazy talk. Surely someone would realize that you can't do that strategy with audio? It would sure explain some of the releases we see though. Like this one.
Black Sabbath is one of the hardest bands to collect albums for! There are no good digital copies. The original Castle CD editions are the closest (for the 1st 6 albums). Those all have high end eq boosts. They might be mastered for vinyl eq'd tape copies. No where near the ear bleeding high end screech of the volume war editions but still a problem. Some of the original UK vinyl is still the best sounding. Everything else sounds like a copy of that and not well for it. The newer digital versions sound like distorted copies with the treble goosed up to 17!
Japan SACDs are supposed to sound really great. And they are really expensive too.
jimfisheye
2K Club - QQ Super Nova
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These sound like great copies of damaged generational tapes. The Castle CD copies despite being clearly high end eq boosted have less overall damage.
I don't know the whole story of the original tapes and vinyl editions. I know the US pressings sounded generational. The telltale sound of tape generation - dull and compressed. The imports I was able to get my hands on sounded not just brighter but clearer like going to an earlier generation of the source tape. Unfortunately I was into the reissues with those imports at the time. I might have an original for Sabbath Bloody Sabbath. So I think some of those aren't as good as they could be. But they all sounded clearly better than the dull US copies.
The SACD copies sound like the dull generational sounding US pressing vinyl did. The Castle copies have their issues but are ultimately better clearer copies. I really don't like treble blasted stuff but I can listen to the Castle copies unaltered easier than the stepped on sounding SACD copies.
Vertigo Japan CDs for Technical Ecstasy and Never Say Die for anyone who listens to those last two albums.
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I have skipped all these Super Deluxe versions due to the lack of surround content.
I have a few original LP releases and all the Castle releases including Live At Last.
I remember when I had a Technics CD player, it could detect a CD's with "Emphasis". At the time there was no google and the most I could get out of my research was that it was some kind of added mode found mostly on import or UK CD's. Can anyone shed more light on that feature added to CD's?
I have a few original LP releases and all the Castle releases including Live At Last.
I remember when I had a Technics CD player, it could detect a CD's with "Emphasis". At the time there was no google and the most I could get out of my research was that it was some kind of added mode found mostly on import or UK CD's. Can anyone shed more light on that feature added to CD's?
I never heard of it. I certainly would like to know.
After reading my post, I have to correct the word "mode" with "encoding". It was on all my Castle BS CD's but I have no idea what it does. Comparing the Castle releases with the US releases, I could not really tell the difference.
You mean "Enhanced CD" ? That is a CD with a separate partition that contains CD ROM data. You access it on a PC. Usually they would contain some kind of bonus content.
No, It was not an "Enhanced" CD. I have plenty of those.
I did a google search and the return was that it was actually pre-emphasis. Although I do not remember the "pre" part, just "Emphasis" .
Per the search results:
"Pre-emphasis was a noise reduction technique used in early CDs. They increased the treble on a CD, and the CD player would lower the treble back down to normal levels. ... There are even some CDs that have pre-emphasis applied that are not properly tagged as such, so the CD player will not properly de-emphasize."
Not sure if the Castle BS CD's were improperly tagged or genuinely had the pre-emphasis or not. I just know that light lit up every time a Castle Black Sabbath disc was put in.
Sounds like you're talking about Pre-emphasis. That's kind of like the digital equivalent of Dolby noise reduction for cassettes. If a CD is encoded with pre-emphasis but played without decoding (de-emphasizing), then it may sound bright or hissy, again like a cassette recorded using Dolby but played back with Dolby turned off. According to that article I just linked to, it was used on some early CDs in the 80s, but rarely since. Most CD players should automatically detect and handle it properly, but if you rip such a CD on a computer, the ripping software may not detect the pre-emphasis flag to do the decoding, so your files may sound shrill.
I've only ever listened to the original album. I had it in '72.
I just listened through an old iPad's internal speakers and in my opinion,
the 1986 master sounds the closest to the original album.
It also gives Tony's guitar " balls" !
There are some eq horrors on other versions.
Steven's version has the most space, but where are the balls ?
Black Sabbath has always been, for me, the sound of Tony's guitar ...not Ozzy's voice. A lot of the mastering here sounds like they've mastered to the voice, not the guitar...after all,BS is not a "pop" band !
YMMV
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