Cartridges for CD-4?

[johnspaulding]

Is there any recommendations for a phono cartridge that will be good to decode CD-4 without breaking the bank? I have been looking at the Grado Green, looks well made and has better than most specs. Has anyone used the Grado in their quad setups?:

 

[sondeguy]

Currently I use an Audio Technica ML 150 but have used an AT 440ML in the past Decoded better than most. All of the more extreme tip shapes fine line, micro line Gyger, Van den hul tip shapes work. and for cd4 use remeber most demodulator input impedances are 100k not 47 kohms so the high end tends to boost this is referring to moving magnet cartridges, you may have seen a number of posts with people using moving coils the advantge of a MC Cartridge is it is relatively impervious to capacitance so it passes High frequencies well the only disadvantages of Grados that I have heard of is they used to and still may be unshielded so they pick up hum from AC motors and the tip shape is an elliptical.

 

[sspsandy]

I use the New CD-4 cartridge sold by Ed Saunders, it's an Audio Technica with a nice Shibata stylus, great sound. Ed sells them on e-Bay for $49.00, just look up CD-4. You can also buy stuff direct from him.

 

[Cai Campbell]

The Grado Green will not work since it uses an elliptical stylus. You need a cartridge with a line contact stylus. Variations that will work are called different names, including Shibata, microridge and microline. In addition to the correct stylus shape, you also need to be sure the cartridge's frequency response extends to at least 30 kHz (preferably 40 kHz).

 

[captainwrong]

Wrote something earlier, but after playing around today, I need to change it.

I'm using a Grado Red and it works. I'd been having problems calibrating and wasn't getting any front/back seperation, but after fooling with my 4dd-5 this afternoon, I'm getting great front to back. The problem I'm having now is getting the splatty sound. I don't know if that's due to not having the carrier signal adjusted correctly (I don't have a test record), the records being worn, or the stylus.

I'd also mention this about the Grado series, they are very sensitive to external noise. Mine appears to be picking up a bit of hum from the motor on my table and if I leave my DVD player on standby as opposed to turning it off, the cart picks that up too and it plays havoc with the CD-4 demod.

When I get some money, I'll try something else, like the AT cart everyone is talking about. Maybe that will take care of the splatty sound. But I can vouch for the Grado Red working.

 

[berninahusq]

I use both a Grado F1+ which I bought in the mid-70s and a AT15Sa which cost almost three times that price if I remember. Both are very good cartridges and were made specifically for CD-4 with the shibata stylus. Also both replacement stlyii can be purchased directly from the manufacturer (as I as recently did last year) for a lot cheaper than from some of those internet companies who specialize in replacement stylii charging exorbitant prices.

I've always tended to favor the Grado since it is lighter and tracks better than the AT15Sa. The Grado sound is very warm as well. Unfortunately, I don't think you can purchase one new.

However, The Quadfather, whose opinion I truly respect, is a stout proponent of the AT133 which is currently available, inexpensive and works well for CD-4. I don't own one of these, but you should look at what he says about the AT133 here

pub9.ezboard.com/fquadrap...ID=3.topic

Good luck,
Ed

 

[sqdave1975]

I'm really pleased with my AT331LP cart, sometimes they are labelled as an AT8008 Studio, but it is an identical product. Note however that they require a short "breaking in" period before they sound really sweet.
Highly recommended cost-effective CD-4 solution.

Dave.

 

[quadanasaziland]

Hey just a note to some of the new folks, a lot of the questions comming from the very welcome newbies have been beat to death in old posts. Take time to read all the back posts cause most of it is there! Also click on the banner at the top of thepage and you will be taken to the old site that too has a wealth of info.

Dave

 

[johnspaulding]

Thanks! Will go with one of the AT cartidges to start. Larry Clifton also sent me a personal reply about the Grado. Seems the stylus shape is very important. The at440ml sounds like a great cartridge, for both cd-4 and conventional vinyl. Currently for cd-4 I am using a Denon dl-80a moving coil, and I have noticed "muddy" sound occasionally, probably due to the elliptical stylus.

 

[rolvkarsten]

Hi, seems this is the thread for my questions.
I have a JVC 4MD-20X pick up.
Q1: Is this needle really a good replacement needle: http://cgi.ebay.com/STEREO-STYLUS-A...hZ003QQcategoryZ64620QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem

Q2: I also have some other pickups and woder if they will track CD-4: Ortofon MC-70, EMT van den Hul and a Micro Acoustics 530mp. The last one has a very special needle possibly able to track CD-4, but the frequency response given in the documentation is not very extended.

Of course, the 530mp must be from the late 70ties, so the rubber suspension might be just too old. Stiff or whatever might happen.

RK

 

[phydo]

RK:

Check out this thread: https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5023.

Justin

 

[rolvkarsten]

Hey just a note to some of the new folks, a lot of the questions comming from the very welcome newbies have been beat to death in old posts. Take time to read all the back posts cause most of it is there! Also click on the banner at the top of thepage and you will be taken to the old site that too has a wealth of info.

Dave

Seems more or less the first thing I did was this
Sorry for that.
Maybe also this is something mentioned before, but does some list over CD-4 compatible cartridges exist? And preferably with a note informing wether it is still commercially availlable or not?

RK

 

[op135]

I posted this in another topic. The Shure M24H is the only CD-4 cart made by Shure. I believe it is a fairly rare cartridge, and I have used mine with no problems. I haven't tried it out in quad yet because I only recently became the owner of a quad receiver. Once I get it set up, I will test it out on SQ records. Here are the specs:


Moving Magnet Output (1Khz 50 mm/sec)
Freq Response: 20Hz - 50kHz
Output Impedance: 510 ohms
Load Impedance: 47k ohms
L/R Separation 1kHz: > 22db
L/R Balance 1kHz: < 2db
Stylus Tip: Hyperbolic Nude
VTF: 1.0-1.5gm
Mass: 5.8gm
Stylus: N24H
100pF Loading capacitance.
2/4 channel cartridge.

Check cartridgedb.com to browse nearly all popular cartridges. Great info.

 

[quadtrade]

I posted this in another topic. The Shure M24H is the only CD-4 cart made by Shure. I believe it is a fairly rare cartridge, and I have used mine with no problems. I haven't tried it out in quad yet because I only recently became the owner of a quad receiver. Once I get it set up, I will test it out on SQ records. Here are the specs:


Moving Magnet Output (1Khz 50 mm/sec)
Freq Response: 20Hz - 50kHz
Output Impedance: 510 ohms
Load Impedance: 47k ohms
L/R Separation 1kHz: > 22db
L/R Balance 1kHz: < 2db
Stylus Tip: Hyperbolic Nude
VTF: 1.0-1.5gm
Mass: 5.8gm
Stylus: N24H
100pF Loading capacitance.
2/4 channel cartridge.

Check cartridgedb.com to browse nearly all popular cartridges. Great info.

You might need to do some more research on CD-4 and SQ and QS. QS and SQ are matrix schemes, work with any stereo source, just needs the matrix embedded. Tape does have it special problems but can work with these matrix waves. CD-4 is what requires a special cart.

 

[jefe1]

I'm using a Grado Prestige blue on a Dual TT, the 1225 and it works well. Since I don't have another cd4 cart I don't know what I'm missing or how it compares but I get good separation with it. When I first got the Grado I brought it to Quadbobs to check it out. He plugged in my TT played several hard to track cd4 records and the Grado decoded them. So I can vouch for the Grado blue.

 

[op135]

You might need to do some more research on CD-4 and SQ and QS. QS and SQ are matrix schemes, work with any stereo source, just needs the matrix embedded. Tape does have it special problems but can work with these matrix waves. CD-4 is what requires a special cart.

The M24H is a CD-4 cart, but I thought I could also play other quad records with it. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[Doug G.]

You CAN play other (matrix) quad records with a CD-4 cartridge. It's just that it isn't required. Almost any regular stereo cartridge will work for matrix quad records.

This is because all of the information in matrix quad grooves is within the normal audio frequency range - same as regular stereo records.

CD-4 records, however, have information that must be retrieved that is above the normal audio frequency range and, so, the cartridge MUST have a frequency response that goes high enough (45-50kHz) to do this.

Clear?

It does benefit those who are interested in having a quad system to do the research necessary to understand the different systems that were available back then. Otherwise, you are bound to be disappointed when things don't work the way you expect them to.

Us old guys who were around during quad's first coming had to do this.

Doug

 

[op135]

Thanks Doug G--I thought I was right, but quadtrade said I should do more research about the formats, and that threw me off and was the source of my confusion.