Does any QQ member have an SQ Encoder?

[Disclord]

Does any QQ Forum member have an SQ Encoder, and if so, would they be willing to encode some DTS CD's for me? I'd really like to have SQ encoded versions of some of my DTS CD's such as "Band On The Run", "Eagles Hell Freezes Over", the soundtrack to "Titanic", etc...

Also, I have pristine copies of the CD-4 LP soundtracks of "Earthquake" and "Jaws" (as well as the JVC's film sound orchestra CD-4 for "The Poseidon Adventure") and if it's possible, I'd like to have SQ encoded copies of those too - especially "Earthquake" (it's my all-time favorite film and I've never heard the CD-4 played in quad since I don't have a CD-4 setup - nor do I have any way to make digital recordings DVD-A/V's or DTS CD's of them if I did have a good CD-4 setup)

I know it's a lot to ask and I could probably only pay about 50 bucks tops, plus shipping to/from (I'm disabled and on a fixed disability income) so if anyone here could do me this big favor, I'd really appreciate it.

(BTW, the CD-4 Quadradisc's of Earthquake and Jaws are the actual film score recordings used in the films, NOT the re-recordings done for the official "original motion picture soundtrack" LP issues, like the "Earthquake" soundtrack Varese Sarabande released on CD and "Jaws" released by MCA. When DVD-Audio was in its early days I kept hoping that Universal would release both soundtracks on DVD-A taken from their quad masters. But, my hopes were dashed! The Sensurround track on the CD-4 of Earthquake was taken directly from the electronic rumble-generator used in theatrical installations - unlike the US LP release that was filtered to cut off at 20Hz, the CD-4 extends down to 16-Hz, which was the design-point for all versions of Sensurround.)

Oh, also, the US soundtrack LP of "Earthquake" and the Varese Sarabande CD release are encoded in DynaQuad - when Varese Sarabande announced Earthquake for CD release I wrote them to ask if the Sensurround effects were to be included and ended up on the phone with the engineer doing the digital CD mastering - he said the 2-channel master tape from Universal was clearly marked as being encoded in DynaQuad and with Dolby A-Type noise reduction. He told me that he had never seen DynaQuad on any Universal title before. And sure enough, playing the CD or LP through a Dolby Surround decoder reveals it to be true - there are instruments that are clearly encoded to come from the surrounds. I wonder if the DynaQuad mix and the Japanese CD-4 quad mix were done at the same time or by the same person? Since DynaQuad didn't use any phase encoding, no special encoder was needed - just a polarity reversal for anything meant for the surround channel - while Center Front was encoded as standard stereo and SQ (and the original version of QS) are.

 

[mandrix]

Interesting. Why would you encode DTS to SQ?

 

[oxforddickie]

I have pristine copies of the CD-4 LP soundtracks of "Earthquake" and "Jaws" (as well as the JVC's film sound orchestra CD-4 for "The Poseidon Adventure") and if it's possible, I'd like to have SQ encoded copies of those too - especially "Earthquake" (it's my all-time favorite film and I've never heard the CD-4 played in quad since I don't have a CD-4 setup - nor do I have any way to make digital recordings DVD-A/V's or DTS CD's of them if I did have a good CD-4 setup)

(BTW, the CD-4 Quadradisc's of Earthquake and Jaws are the actual film score recordings used in the films, NOT the re-recordings done for the official "original motion picture soundtrack" LP issues, like the "Earthquake" soundtrack Varese Sarabande released on CD and "Jaws" released by MCA. When DVD-Audio was in its early days I kept hoping that Universal would release both soundtracks on DVD-A taken from their quad masters. But, my hopes were dashed! The Sensurround track on the CD-4 of Earthquake was taken directly from the electronic rumble-generator used in theatrical installations - unlike the US LP release that was filtered to cut off at 20Hz, the CD-4 extends down to 16-Hz, which was the design-point for all versions of Sensurround.)

Oh, also, the US soundtrack LP of "Earthquake" and the Varese Sarabande CD release are encoded in DynaQuad - when Varese Sarabande announced Earthquake for CD release I wrote them to ask if the Sensurround effects were to be included and ended up on the phone with the engineer doing the digital CD mastering - he said the 2-channel master tape from Universal was clearly marked as being encoded in DynaQuad and with Dolby A-Type noise reduction. He told me that he had never seen DynaQuad on any Universal title before. And sure enough, playing the CD or LP through a Dolby Surround decoder reveals it to be true - there are instruments that are clearly encoded to come from the surrounds. I wonder if the DynaQuad mix and the Japanese CD-4 quad mix were done at the same time or by the same person? Since DynaQuad didn't use any phase encoding, no special encoder was needed - just a polarity reversal for anything meant for the surround channel - while Center Front was encoded as standard stereo and SQ (and the original version of QS) are.

WOW, as a releaser i feel i must comment. It's a shame you couldn't lend these disc's to Romanotrax so they could be released for all to enjoy as DVD-A's. Also interesting about the Dynaquad releases. I'm working on a script set to accuratley decode DY, with full separation, time to hunt down the CD's for release.....

OD

 

[quadtrade]

Thru my collection Bob has access to about everything, time is the factor.........

 

[Disclord]

WOW, as a releaser i feel i must comment. It's a shame you couldn't lend these disc's to Romanotrax so they could be released for all to enjoy as DVD-A's. Also interesting about the Dynaquad releases. I'm working on a script set to accuratley decode DY, with full separation, time to hunt down the CD's for release.....

OD

I would gladly lend my Quadradiscs of Earthquake and Jaws and Poseidon Adventure to Romanotrax if he'd make DVD-A/V's out of them - he does such high quality work!

Bob Romano/Romanotrax, if you are interested in doing conversions of these, please PM me so I can get the discs to you.

 

[Old Quad Guy]

Earthquake would be interesting. I saw the movie in original sensurround with the Huge speakers. Really shook you and the whole building up! Including the other theaters showing different movies.

 

[JonUrban]

I used to have those CD-4 albums from Japan. They're long gone, but they were pretty quiet CD-4 LPs, as I recall. Very worthy of conversion.

 

[Disclord]

I used to have those CD-4 albums from Japan. They're long gone, but they were pretty quiet CD-4 LPs, as I recall. Very worthy of conversion.

Well, if anyone would like to talk Romanotrax into doing conversions of them for me, please do. I also have the Earthquake Sensurround press-kit and lots of other stuff from the film that could go towards making an awesome DVD-Audio/Video release.

 

[Philip Spinner]

Earthquake would be interesting. I saw the movie in original sensurround with the Huge speakers. Really shook you and the whole building up! Including the other theaters showing different movies.

I saw it also in sensurround at the Ziegfeld Theatre in N.Y. I arrived in the middle of the showing and when entering the lobby I thought a subway train was going by under the theatre. Then I realized there was none. I could have sworn the popcorn was shaking in the dispencer.
Phil

 

[Disclord]

I saw it also in sensurround at the Ziegfeld Theatre in N.Y. I arrived in the middle of the showing and when entering the lobby I thought a subway train was going by under the theatre. Then I realized there was none. I could have sworn the popcorn was shaking in the dispencer.
Phil

People now days, who've grown up only with THX theaters and bass, simply can't imagine the type of effect that Sensurround created. And because they used huge horns and used the theater walls to create extensions of the horns (thus making a much longer horn), the effect was completely unlike that produced by modern subwoofers in theaters or the home. The floor really felt like it was shaking and you could feel the air moving all around you - 16-Hz at 120 db is almost frightening. In Battlestar Galactica they used the Sensurround to create the effect of the Atlantia's bridge depressurizing as well as the infrasonic shockwave created as the Vipers shot down the launch tunnel.

MCA-Universal was attempting to sell/license Sensurround to other studios - kind of as a competitor to Dolby. After they re-engineered the system to Mod-II and Mod-III Sensurround, they had the ability to create surround-sound type effects from mono optical prints - and since the Mod-II/III prints used dbx Noise Reduction with the Academy Rolloff removed, they had a great dynamic range and frequency response of 16-Hz to 16-kHz. 20th Century Fox came close to licensing Sensurround for ALIEN but Dolby convinced them that they could create the same effect with their 'new' 70mm "Baby Boom" format - which wasn't true at all since the mag tracks on 70mm film couldn't go down to 16-Hz. Spielberg was interested in it for Close Encounters and since it was a Columbia and Universal co-production, it could have been done, but again, Dolby intervened, giving them both 70mm and 35mm licensing for one price. At the time, Universal Studio's had over 800 theaters with Sensurround equipment installed - far, far more installations than Dolby had, but they didn't have Dolby's "clout" in the industry.

Warner Brothers "MegaSound" system used the Sensurround horns for their theater installations - Warner leased the horns from Universal or, if the theater had bought the horns, used the horns the theater already had. (Universal leased the system for Earthquake but sold it outright after that). The Exorcist was released in MegaSound - everytime Regan talked in the deep "devils voice" it had an infrasonic rumble to it to create fear (which infrasonic sound can do). Altered States in MegaSound was awesome as was Outland - I didn't get to see Superman II in MegaSound... no theater in Albuquerque played it that way.

Universal's The Hindenburg was supposed to be a Sensurround film and one press showing was done in Sensurround, but Universal stopped it at the last minute due to the lack of available theaters since Midway was out and Rollercoaster was coming. The Hindenburg, even without Sensurround, had one of the most incredible soundtracks ever made and I sure hope its used, without remixing, when released on Blu-ray. The 2-channel Dolby Stereo remix done for the LaserDisc and DVD is OK, but they removed all the directional dialogue.

Sensurround Plus, which was 4-track magnetic or stereo optical prints with dbx nose reduction (no rumble effects) was used only on Zoot Suit, although Zoot Suit also used Lightsurround, which was an in-theater synced light cuing system. The Sensurround horns were used for the surround channels and under the screen to provide deep, deep bass - but unlike Sensurround, no electronically generated rumble was used.

I think Sensurround 'died' as a process simply because it required theaters to remove seats from the back and sides or front of the theater in order to accommodate the up to 10 feet tall horns. At one installation in Abq they had to bolt chicken wire over the mouth of the corner horns because they were so big, wide and tall that a person could actually walk inside of one! At the Chinese Theater their first test installation used too many horns at the front of the theater and the infrasonic bass was so loud in the first few rows that it would cause people to vomit and wet their pants... which wasn't a good thing to have mentioned in a review! Just imagine "This movie is so good I actually pissed myself!"

I think it also came down to liability - people got sue-happy and the "Sensurround Warnings" were just the thing to make someone imagine they had been 'injured' and sue the theater.

 

[bmoura]

I used to have those CD-4 albums from Japan. They're long gone, but they were pretty quiet CD-4 LPs, as I recall. Very worthy of conversion.

Like Jon, I owned both of these in the '70s Quad Era. Earthquake is good but Jaws was one of the best CD-4 Quadradiscs of all time sonically. Definitely worthy of a RomanoTrax or Army of Quad conversion for the ages !
(Not to mention one through the Dorren QQ Demodulator some day!)

 

[Disclord]

Like Jon, I owned both of these in the '70s Quad Era. Earthquake is good but Jaws was one of the best CD-4 Quadradiscs of all time sonically. Definitely worthy of a RomanoTrax or Army of Quad conversion for the ages !
(Not to mention one through the Dorren QQ Demodulator some day!)

RomanoTrax has graciously agreed to do the transfers for me - and I'm gonna send him the Sensurround press-kit and stuff I have for "Earthquake" so the DVD-A/V can be a really excellent release. And, of course, we'll make the discs available to all QQ Forum members who want copies.

Here's a quote mentioning the CD-4 Quadradisc from an article about the development of Sensurround for Earthquake:

One interesting sidelight had to do with the production of the sound track album for the film. In attempting to get the earthquake rumble effects, which were programmed to duplicate the 1971 earthquake in Sylmar, CA, recorded onto the disc, output from the digital rumble generator was first transferred to a studio tape machine modified for flat response to 20Hz. It proved impossible to cut a master lacquer using conventional mastering techniques with this tape because the high amplitude, low frequency excursions in the signal confused the automatic depth and pitch control system of the cutting lathe, which is almost never called upon to handle a signal below 30Hz. The solution was to use the manual override of the machine, which is normally used only at the beginning of a band to prevent pre-echo, and progressively reduce the channel separation below 60 Hz, to obtain wide enough spacing of the grooves to handle the unequalized signal. Although the sound track has been released only in stereo in America and Europe, it was issued in the "Quadradisc" discrete quadraphonic LP format in Japan. The JVC engineers responsible for the quadraphonic release wanted a greater impact to the quake effects on the disc and achieving that required that the digital rumble generator output be fed directly into the Quadradisc encoder and to the LP cutting lathe with no intervening tape stage being used. It took many attempts by the JVC engineers cutting the lacquer, due to the reduced speed mastering required by the Quadradisc system, but they succeeded in recording the quake effects with the low frequencies extended down to 16 Hz, matching the response of theatrical Sensurround system. On both soundtrack recordings the final result on the disc is a wide band lasting 2:42, but still narrow enough for some five to six minutes of more typical program material. The albums should provide an interesting test of the low frequency performance of any sound system.

Pretty cool...

 

[oxforddickie]

I'm sure we'll all be looking forward to them

OD

 

[Disclord]

I'm sure we'll all be looking forward to them

OD

What does "Dreaming-Spires Owner" next to your avatar mean? Is that the breed of dog or its name?

I grew up owning Great Dane's, until I moved to Missouri - now I've become a cat person and we actually own 10 cats (all are indoor cats) Luckily, our house is large enough that they're not crowded at all and we have 4 automatic Litter-Robot's placed strategically around the house so we don't have that 'cat' smell that so many multi-cat households have. Our cats have trained us well too.

This is Biddle (reversed contraction of her 'real' name Little Bits) and below her is her brother Buddy-Boo. Their positions are reversed in the 2nd picture. Buddy loves to hold on to Biddle when he sleeps.

 

[oxforddickie]

What does "Dreaming-Spires Owner" next to your avatar mean? Is that the breed of dog or its name?/QUOTE]

Afraid not, just that i run the Dreaming-Spires Quad blog

OD

 

[jefe1]

Great cat pics, Disclord! I used to have two little Persians in the house, but they passed on. Persians are great affectionate cats but have lots of health problems. With a two year old at home, I'll wait until he gets older before bringing some new cats home.
Next time I'll get four!

 

[Disclord]

Our first cat was a Siamese we named Lady Peanut. Our 2nd cat was Buddy Boo, who is just a mixed tom-cat. Biddle was next and we got her from the vet. Then we got Pandy - I have no idea what she is - she's a silver color. Then we got a Calico we named Einstein (we thought 'she' was a 'he' at first!), then her sister we named Whitey, then Ehlby (spelling of L.B. for "Little Boy"), then an orange tabby named Friday. Then a black cat named Lucky - he adores Ehlby and they are best buds. And Lucky treats Whitey as his "wife" - if she can't find him she'll walk around the house crying out for him until he appears. It's adorable. And just a year ago we rescued a cat from freezing and named him Sluggo. His left ear fell off from frostbite though - but he doesn't seem to notice! He'd been declawed, both front and back, and was missing a tooth and someone had thrown him out in the cold. We had a little house on our back porch for any wild cat to take shelter in during the winter and kept it stocked with food... one day it snowed so heavily the box got totally buried - we didn't even know Sluggo was in there until we heard faint meowing from under the snow mound. I dug him out and he was dry but there was a slight leak and it had gotten his ear wet, thus the frost bite. Sluggo is old and arthritic and likes nothing more than to sit on my lap and be gently petted. Since he doesn't have claws he has a terrible time trying to run around the house since we have hardwood floors - he just slips and slides! And since he's missing a tooth he prefers wet food, but we make him eat dry half the time too to keep his remaining teeth and gums healthy.

Oh, we had one cat, Lady Bird, who got a kidney disease that quickly took her life - but so far, in 10 years, she's the only cat we've lost. Her ashes are in a little urn on a shelf in the front room and the urn is engraved with "Lady Bird Chamberlain-Cook" (my partner Tony's last name is Cook)

Except for Biddle, all of our cats have come to us from the wild, either as kittens or adults. And we feed about 4 or 5 wild cats now - they're waiting at the back door every morning for their breakfast and they come back around 9pm for dinner - the local vet even spayed/neutered them for us for 10 bucks each because the state has no program for reduced cost spay/neutering - and we don't want more wild cats running around breeding - there's too many already! So, what little extra money we have goes to things like taking care of the wild cats so they don't have to be put down or their litters euthanized.

Gosh, now everyone on the QQ Forum is going to think I'm a crazy "cat person."

Here's a pic of Sluggo - it's kind of hard to see but the top of his left ear is gone - it just dried up and fell off from the frostbite about 2 weeks after we brought him in. BTW, we put signs up all over town, looking for his owner - with no response. So he gets extra special treatment since someone was so mean to remove his collar (he wore one for a long time because he's permanently missing hair where it was) and let him loose out in the dead of winter where he had no claws or skills to fend for himself or defend himself. I'm so glad he came to us.

 

[Disclord]

What does "Dreaming-Spires Owner" next to your avatar mean? Is that the breed of dog or its name?/QUOTE]

Afraid not, just that i run the Dreaming-Spires Quad blog

OD

How embarrassing for not making the connection! I've been to your blog many times but the name/association just didn't 'click' with me when I noticed it next to your avatar today.

Yes, I know I'm an idiot.

 

[Doug G.]

The cat (Caesar) we had when I was a kid eventually had both ears flattened from frostbite because he used to go out and carouse for up to three days at a time.

We did get him neutered but he was too old and still wanted to go out.

So, he kind of looked more like a bear than a cat.

One time, we had to take him to the vet because he had absesses over one of his eyes and in both forelegs from fighting.

He had to stay at the vets for three days and when we went and got him, he was so happy to see us, he rammed his head into our faces over and over again. My dad asked me to control him because he couldn't drive with Caesar doing that.

We lost him in 1974 at the age of twelve from an intestinal disease.

I saw Earthquake in Sensurround too. Of course, it was especially thrilling to a person who likes deep bass. \:^)

Doug

 

[Disclord]

I saw Earthquake in Sensurround too. Of course, it was especially thrilling to a person who likes deep bass. \:^)

Doug

The trailer on TV for the theatrical release of Earthquake is the first trailer I can remember seeing - the trailer played during prime-time, while we were watching "All In The Family" and at the end of the trailer a voice over said "Starts Friday at the Highland Theater in Sensurround!" The Highland was built in the mid 50's for the Todd AO company and had a huge screen with a gentle curve - in addition to seating something like 1000 people, it had an awesome balcony. Anyway, I was shaking with excitement from the trailer and made my dad call the Highland theater right then to make sure it was really playing there and what time thier first show was. My dad took the day off work and I got to stay home from school - the back left and right corners of the theater had about 3 rows of 4-5 seats and they had been removed and in their place were the Sensurround horns - I remember that my dad stood right next to the corner one (they were C-horns) and it was about 6 feet taller than him. On either side it had these HUGE flared openings (so-called Bat-wings) that came out from the wall maybe 5 feet at their widest. At the center back of the theater, under the balcony, about 5 seats had been removed from 2 rows and a big rectangle horn (which I now know was a "W" horn) was there - it was facing the front and had more plywood around it that went up at an angle and out about 4 feet - which I now know was a mouth extender to extend the frequency response. Up on either side of the screen were two more of the corner horns with mouth extenders and using the side-wall as the other part of the horn. There was another W-horn at the very center, under the screen but it didn't have a mouth extender on it.

The balcony was closed during the showing - it was old and they had started limiting the number of people allowed to sit up there - I assume it was falling apart and they didn't want the weight of the Sensurround horns up there. We got there about 30 min before the film started, so I spent that time inspecting the horns - I had never seen anything like them and couldn't imagine what the effect was going to be - all the trailer said was it would "Surround and engulf you completely and make you feel YOU ARE THERE" and then in the lobby of the theater was the Sensurround warning but as a huge 46-inch high one-sheet. And when the movie started they ran a warning that although you might have muffled hearing, it wasn't permanent damage and that pregnant women, those with heart conditions or emotionally excitable people shouldn't see it - and the typical "the management assumes no responsibility". The film doesn't use the Sensurround at all until the main quake hits - neither pre-shock used the system - and when the quake started, I couldn't believe it - and it just seemed to get louder and louder and the way it kind of "undulated" - I really thought they had installed shakers in the seats and floors - and I remember dad saying as we drove home, that he kept expecting the theater to start falling apart. We had lived in California till 1973 and I remember the Sylmar earthquake and dad said that the film felt like an earthquake even stronger than the Sylmar earthquake. Luckily, the Highland theater got a mag print of Earthquake, so I saw it in stereo. Later, I saw it at a 2nd run dollar house and while it was in Sensurround, it was a mono Sensurround print - the rumble effect was just as good (since it was created in each theater by a digital noise generator in the Sensurround control box) but I couldn't figure out why the rest of the sound was so 'underwhelming' - I didn't know or understand about stereo or mono or especially about things like 4-track mag VS optical mono film sound!

I saw Midway when it came out - this time at the Cinema East theater, which was also a huge old theater. The Sensurround was used a lot in that one - and it would move between the front and back during certain scenes. I was in California when Rollercoaster came out and I saw it at a theater in Torrance - I don't know which one it was. But I loved the film. The Sensurround effect was totally different than they'd done before - the rides were recorded with special microphones that could capture infrasonic sounds, so you could really 'feel' the effect of the ride. I remember that when a coaster would go over one of the brakes that slow them down, you could 'feel' it in the Sensurround effect too. And they had music coming from the horns during the rides, which hadn't been done before - the low frequencies of the music really hit you in the chest.

Battlestar Galactica played in Sensurround at the Eastdale dollar theater in Albuquerque, and they had a great installation of it. And, MCA had refined the system so much that Earthquake was downright primitive compared to the effects being achieved in Galactica. The "wind" effect as the Atlantia's bridge explodes was amazing - I could feel the air moving to and fro in the theater, perfectly matching what was on the screen. I once to to talk to one of the mixers of Battlestar and he said that for the 'air' effect they used real wind recordings with added infrasonic rumble created by the earthquake rumble generator and filtered to 16 - 18 Hz - it was played in the theater at 115db and given movement by using the two control tones on the print to rapidly 'pan' the noise between the front and rear sets of Sensurround horns - he said it pressurized and depressurized the auditorium, giving the effect of the air blasting through as the bridge exploded on screen.

Jurassic Park would have been the perfect film to introduce a modern version of Sensurround - "Digital Sensurround" or "Super Sensurround" - I mean, imagine how cool it would be to really FEEL the footsteps of the T-Rex. And an effect similar to the 'wind' effect in Galactica could be used on the T-Rex roar. And also, for special effects like when they're in the helicopter, first landing at J-park and the helicopter is bouncing around. Sensurround could be put to good use for effects like that. With the advances in horns and subwoofer technology, I'm sure the Sensurround effects could have even greater definition than they did in the original installations. And control tones wouldn't be needed with today's digital sound since the LFE and every channel is capable of low end response to at least 10Hz. Peter Jackson's King Kong could have been released that way - heck, a theater could just install massive low bass Sensurround horns and every film would be a 'Sensurround" film!

Of course I want a modern, digital version of the Tate DES - one that uses 30 bands and analyzes the recording to determine which SQ encoder was used to optimize the decoding for perfect results in every case. And digitally remove phase errors from LP's that were pressed incorrectly, etc... like Lexicon had in their original CP-1 and CP-2 decoders - I think they called it "Auto Azimuth". And it would have a built-in ENCODER so you could feed it AC-3 or DTS or DVD-Audio signals and get a 2-channel SQ signal back out. SQ gives really good effects when listened to over headphones - CBS even analyzed it and found that, when listening with headphones, the ears act almost like an SQ decoder, giving the impression of sounds placed in a correct quadraphonic array. They called it SQ Dicophony and promoted the effect strongly to radio stations that had a lot of headphone listeners.

I dream way too much...