DTS:X confusion

[quadrifonico]

hi there; i did not find threads on this...so CERTAIN HD master audio blurays are played by my receiver as neural:x ...but i do not read any difference in the back cover of these discs...i just let my receiver in auto mode and just with some discs the height speakers play...i am not talking of Atmos...i hope someone can explain, thanks

 

[HomerJAU]

Neural X is a DTS upmixing option. You can turn that off on your AVR if you don’t like it.

 

[quadrifonico]

thanks Homer for the blazing-fast reply! but it is not clear to me HOW my receiver decides to upmix only certain discs and not others...

 

[HomerJAU]

Neural X only upmixes DTS input but not DTS:X (as DTS:X already uses all your speakers).

 

[quadrifonico]

ok then by chance you remember of examples of blu rays that clearly state on the back cover that are DTS:X? i mean, that before i purchase them i know if all my speakers will be involved...i ask because i see lots of "master audio", but i do not remember reading dts:x...i hope i explained what confuses me...thanks

 

[shokhead]

You should be able to put your receiver on anything it has like DTS ES Dscrt6.1∗1, DTS ES Mtrx6.1∗1, DTS:X, DTS Neural:X as a few examples and none of those will be on the back cover of a disc.

 

[PurpleMoustache]

ok then by chance you remember of examples of blu rays that clearly state on the back cover that are DTS:X? i mean, that before i purchase them i know if all my speakers will be involved...i ask because i see lots of "master audio", but i do not remember reading dts:x...i hope i explained what confuses me...thanks

I’ve got a few:
Scorsese’s Casino
Edgar Wrights Three Flavours Cornetto Trilogy (Shaun of the Dead, Hot Fuzz, The World’s End)
The Blues Brothers
Puss In Boots (the first one)
Hitchcock’s Psycho & Vertigo

And ones I don’t have:
The Thing (Carpenter)
Jurassic Park

And an oddity, a DTS:X soundtrack ported to Atmos:
Arrow’s 4K release of Waterworld

It seems mostly that Universal is the holdout for DTS:X while most have switched to Dolby Atmos. I believe DTS:X was the first to market, but Dolby Atmos has been winning the “Format Wars”. Under the hood they’re effectively the same thing: object based approach to surround sound. Rather than focusing on specific channels themselves, importance is given to “Objects” which are individual sounds that are placed in a 3D “room”. When playback happens, the DTS:X (or Dolby Atmos) decoder looks at the available speakers, and their placement and decides in real time where sounds should go.

I think one of the best ways to “explain” it is to show it. While this linked video is for Atmos, the principle is the same for DTS:X


Those balls you see moving around? Those are the “objects” and the static boxes are the speakers. The objects do not necessarily line up with the speakers, and use a variety of speakers to output the sound to make it sound as if it’s in the space the ball occupies.

 

[quadrifonico]

yes yes but what about music releases or concerts? any?

 

[PurpleMoustache]

yes yes but what about music releases or concerts? any?

None as far as I know. As I mentioned, Dolby Atmos has more or less won the “format war”, leading to Atmos releases of:
Dark Side of the Moon
Van Morrison’s Moondance
Tubular Bells
Abbey Road/Sgt Pepper/Let It Be/Revolver
All Thing Must Pass
Etc.

At this rate (especially with streaming Atmos, which is big) it’s actually faster to list albums that *don’t* have an Atmos mix vs ones that do

 

[quadrifonico]

well yes i do know that,it is something obvious nowadays, luckily or not; by the way i am planning to wait for the new apple tv ...to stream atmos from apple music; i heard good and bad things...is it true that has some streaming issues? like music lagging buffering and so on (?) thanks

 

[PurpleMoustache]

I have not had any streaming issues… nor have I heard of anyone else on this forum having streaming issues. As long as you have an Atmos ready system and your Apple TV is connected to your AVR/Soundbar/eARC you should be fine.

While I have heard rumors of a new Apple TV… I doubt any improvements would be made on the music streaming side, the rumors I’ve been hearing are a more powerful processor for games, so you should be set if you wanted to get one now

 

[madscot]

Never known a music release to be in DTS:X, out of well over 150 movies I have only 2 in DTS:X, it seems be pretty rare, in comparison I have over 20 movies in Atmos

 

[Albert Dagger]

yes yes but what about music releases or concerts? any?

What's the brand and model of your AVR or AV processor? I can't find it on your profile.
Mine plays back DTS-HD with the Neural X upmixing when the sample rate is 48KHz (common for movies and some audio discs). When the sample rate is 96KHz, it plays back the DTS-HD as is.

If you have a Denon/Marantz receiver, you will find detailed information about these modes in the manual in this section: "Types of input signals, and corresponding sound modes"
https://manuals.marantz.com/AV10/NA/EN/GFNFSYwdnzswtk.php

 

[shokhead]

What's the brand and model of your AVR or AV processor? I can't find it on your profile.
Mine plays back DTS-HD with the Neural X upmixing when the sample rate is 48KHz (common for movies and some audio discs). When the sample rate is 96KHz, it plays back the DTS-HD as is.

If you have a Denon/Marantz receiver, you will find detailed information about these modes in the manual in this section: "Types of input signals, and corresponding sound modes"
https://manuals.marantz.com/AV10/NA/EN/GFNFSYwdnzswtk.php

DTS Surround
This mode can be selected when playing sources recorded in DTS.
DTS ES Dscrt6.1∗1
This mode is suitable for playing discs recorded in DTS-ES.
The surround back channel added using the discrete method is played as an independent channel.
Since all channels are independent, the 360-degree spacial expressiveness and sound localization are enhanced.
DTS ES Mtrx6.1∗1
This mode is suitable for playing discs recorded in DTS-ES.
The surround back channel added to the surround-left and surround-right channels by a matrix encoder at software recording time is decoded by this unit’s matrix decoder and played from each channel (surround left, surround right, surround back).
DTS 96/24
This mode can be selected when playing sources recorded in DTS 96/24.
DTS-HD
This mode can be selected when playing sources recorded in DTS-HD.
DTS Express
This mode can be selected when playing sources recorded in DTS Express.
DTS:X
This mode can be selected when playing back content encoded with DTS:X.
It decodes DTS:X content and its positioning data in real time and outputs audio from the appropriate speakers, creating natural audio images regardless of the speaker layout. Use height speakers to realize a three-dimensional sound field.
IMAX DTS
This mode is automatically activated when playing back IMAX Enhanced content featuring a DTS bitstream. link
Also this mode is selectable when “Surround Parameter” - “IMAX” is set to “On” in the menu and a 48 kHz sampling frequency DTS 5.1 channel signal is being input.
When “Speaker Config.” - “Surr. Back” is set to “2 spkrs”, “Speaker Config.” - “Center” is set to “Large” or “Small”, and sound mode is set to “IMAX DTS”, surround audio is output from the surround back speaker. Audio is not output from the surround speaker.
The bass information of speakers are not redirected to the subwoofer, but getting a better bass effect from front and center speakers by special algorithm of IMAX when the “Front” and “Center” are set to “Small”.
IMAX DTS:X
This mode is automatically activated when playing back IMAX Enhanced content featuring a DTS:X bitstream. link
The bass information of speakers are not redirected to the subwoofer, but getting a better bass effect from front and center speakers by special algorithm of IMAX when the “Front” and “Center” are set to “Small”.
DTS Neural:X
This mode uses DTS Neural:X Upmixer to extend various sources to natural and realistic multi channels for playback.
Use height speakers such as front height speakers to realize a three-dimensional sound field.
DTS Virtual:X∗2∗3
This mode uses DTS Virtual:X with virtual height and virtual surround processing to realize a three-dimensional sound field when the height speakers are not used.

 

[minimumtumbleweed]

So, what is DTS Neural:X doing for multichannel tracks? If I have a 5.1 album, is it just putting some stuff in the heights and leaving the 5.1 mix as is? Or is it also messing with the rest of the mix? To my ears, the rest of the mix does sound different when using Neural:X, but who knows.

 

[SeeMoreDigital]

Personally, I'm not a fan of up-mixing any music.

AVR manufacturers should make it a lot easier for users to disable these features along with disabling video up-scaling!

 

[bookofsaturdays]

Never known a music release to be in DTS:X, out of well over 150 movies I have only 2 in DTS:X, it seems be pretty rare, in comparison I have over 20 movies in Atmos

Warner used DTS:X early on for the Harry Potter UHD’s but have since gone to Atmos.

Now mainly only Universal supplies DTS:X tracks with their UHD’s, but a select few have Atmos instead. A couple examples would be Jaws, Back To The Future, Super Mario Bros. Movie, Schindler’s List, Scott Pilgrim Vs The World

Doesn’t seem to be any rhyme or reason but for all intents and purposes, both formats are interchangeable.

 

[paligap]

So, what is DTS Neural:X doing for multichannel tracks? If I have a 5.1 album, is it just putting some stuff in the heights and leaving the 5.1 mix as is? Or is it also messing with the rest of the mix? To my ears, the rest of the mix does sound different when using Neural:X, but who knows.

It might be just my personal experience and preferences, but I'm pretty sure I have my Denon AVRs set up to play DTS Neural:X only when stereo music signals are detected. For stereo and Dolby programs, I have them set to DD + DD Surround. For multichannel movies and music, they just play whatever codec is sent to the receivers.

 

[minimumtumbleweed]

It might be just my personal experience and preferences, but I'm pretty sure I have my Denon AVRs set up to play DTS Neural:X only when stereo music signals are detected. For stereo and Dolby programs, I have them set to DD + DD Surround. For multichannel movies and music, they just play whatever codec is sent to the receivers.

I usually just run it in "Multich" mode which is just straight PCM, with room correction enabled. I was more just wondering if I do "Multich + NEural:X" whether it's only adding some presence to the heights, or whether it's actually changing the whole mix. For stereo, it would definitely be changing things.

 

[marpow]

My little red MODE button on my remote for my McIntosh AVR has all those variation choices.
I use the mode button frequently, when watching TV, sometimes stereo is clean and/or Multichannel. All the others, at least the way I was brought up are just Faux surrounds, and I don't like them.
When I listen to music, I am a purist, it's either Stereo, Multichannel, or Dolby Atmos.
Also with music listening I listen with Pure Direct=OFF.
TV/Movie listening, is whatever I think best, while using the Audessy Room Correction.
Rule of thumb, don't lock yourself into a have to be that way, or what QQ members might say, experiment.