Elcaset, RCA Cart, Playtape, Minipak

[phydo]

Sorry to get sidetracked with a rant.

Good rant!

Justin

 

[Bob Squires Jr]

Playtape also sold a professional version for dictation in offices. There was supposed to be a slightly larger cartridge and home player/recorder that held enough tape for an entire album, but that never came to be. I think there were some stereo Playtapes issued, but I've never seen a portable that was stereo, nor have I seen any prerecorded stereo Playtapes. For such a small company they sure got a lot of music released - I doubt that a company like that could get the titles today. Record companies now hold on to their music beyond reason and "Special Products" licensing divisions seem to have gone the way of the Dodo bird. It's a sad situation because it deprives them, and the artists, of revenue and deprives the consumer of music they want on the format they want, flat-out encouraging piracy. As we all know, the current situation with old quadraphonic titles is the same - the high quality transfers many have done, and made available on torrent sites, have had enough downloads to show that a company would have made money had they released the titles on SACD, DVD-A or BD Audio. Yet they continue to do nothing with them, all the while screaming about the losses they are suffering. It's a sad situation as we all know well.

Sorry to get sidetracked with a rant.

It's not a rant... it's bold fact!

Aside from that... how about the Philco "Hip Pocket Records" that came out in the '60s?
I have every (released) record on the little 3" 45 RPM flexi's in sealed packs.
I had two sets, one to play and one to keep.
They got packed up years ago and I just recently found them!
They had some really cool stuff... The Doors, Van Morrison, Tommy James, Fantastic Johnny C...
48 records in rock and soul and 9 or 10 in children's stories.
You could buy them for 39 cents each and you could get them in cereal boxes.
They even made a player for them.
Apple had a set as well... the Beatles one shown can go upwards from $400.00 or more in good shape!
(Those I don't have )

 

[Quad Linda]

Thanks for the Hip-Pocket Records post, Bob! Hey Jude is edited down to 3:25. BTW: The Beatles' group recordings were NEVER on Apple! What? It can't be. There were lots of LP's, 8-tks, reels, cassettes, 45's and later CD's on the Apple label. Yes, but those only used the Apple name and artwork. All BEATLES recordings were/are released on Capitol, Parlophone or whatever local brand that EMI has used. Likely that will continue under Universal's ownership of EMI.

Ty, your rant was welcome and on the money. I will take exception with one small point, though. "Special products" divisions still exist. Columbia has leased many titles to Mofi, Wounded Bird, Analogue Productions, Collector's Choice and a variety of other labels. Universal and EMI have "special markets" logos that appear on AP SACD's. WEA leases titles to Mofi and others, as well.

I agree that the labels have all left money on the table by not (re)releasing Quad & MC titles already mixed and/or released. Although a few may be unprofitable to press, the vast majority would sell and be profitable. I'm also frustrated that many Quad titles have reappeared on SACD, but as only 2ch.

Although budget labels like Harmony and Camden have long gone by the wayside, the record labels have created variable pricing. That's why we now see older titles, even greatest hits for $5.

I've refrained from adding dictation recorders to this thread. There were a host of unsuccessful formats introduced in the early '60's for that market. I was not aware of the dictation Playtape, though I had heard rumblings of Video Playtape. I laughed when I hear that and quipped, "long enough for what? Commercials?" Playtape was a nice idea, but like Elcaset, it came too late. The market it was aimed at was growing up rapidly and albums were becoming an artform. Kids would soon want stereo systems, if they didn't already. In-a-Gadda-Da-Vida doesn't seem like a natural for Playtape. (Don't say it was out on a 45, 'cause I own one.) Although it was a cute, fun format, it was doomed from the start.

 

[Disclord]

...I will take exception with one small point, though. "Special products" divisions still exist. Columbia has leased many titles to Mofi, Wounded Bird, Analogue Productions, Collector's Choice and a variety of other labels. Universal and EMI have "special markets" logos that appear on AP SACD's. WEA leases titles to Mofi and others, as well.

I agree that the labels have all left money on the table by not (re)releasing Quad & MC titles already mixed and/or released. Although a few may be unprofitable to press, the vast majority would sell and be profitable. I'm also frustrated that many Quad titles have reappeared on SACD, but as only 2ch.

Although budget labels like Harmony and Camden have long gone by the wayside, the record labels have created variable pricing. That's why we now see older titles, even greatest hits for $5.

I've refrained from adding dictation recorders to this thread. There were a host of unsuccessful formats introduced in the early '60's for that market. I was not aware of the dictation Playtape, though I had heard rumblings of Video Playtape. I laughed when I hear that and quipped, "long enough for what? Commercials?" Playtape was a nice idea, but like Elcaset, it came too late. The market it was aimed at was growing up rapidly and albums were becoming an artform. Kids would soon want stereo systems, if they didn't already. In-a-Gadda-Da-Vida doesn't seem like a natural for Playtape. (Don't say it was out on a 45, 'cause I own one.) Although it was a cute, fun format, it was doomed from the start.

Wow, I did not know that - I really figured that MoFi got their releases on just a one-album-at-a-time negotiation basis, not from any kind of regular Special Products division. Nor did I know of all the other labels releasing product. Always learning something new here - I sure missed it I might add.

Another problem with Playtape, besides it's limited playing time, was its fidelity. Even an advanced noise reduction system such as DBX, if one had been available then, couldn't overcome the frequency response/dynamic range and wow and flutter limitations of the narrow tape, slow speed cartridge - all of which would have eventually killed it if it's time limitations didn't. It would have been cool to see what they were up to with the video format though. I assume some variation of longitudinal recording, like the BASF and EVR systems, since there was no way to pull the tape out of the cartridge and return it in the endless loop design Playtapes used.

 

[Quad Linda]

dbx would have been a nightmare on Playtape. The dropouts would have driven the decoder insane. The results would have been horrendous.

...Another problem with Playtape, besides it's limited playing time, was its fidelity. Even an advanced noise reduction system such as DBX, if one had been available then, couldn't overcome the frequency response/dynamic range and wow and flutter limitations of the narrow tape, slow speed cartridge - all of which would have eventually killed it...

 

[Disclord]

dbx would have been a nightmare on Playtape. The dropouts would have driven the decoder insane. The results would have been horrendous.

So true. I once tried to use DBX with the Beta III and VHS SLP modes on my VCR's (linear stereo, not Hi-Fi) and it couldn't decode them without major problems. It worked well at Beta I/II and VHS SP - in fact, in Beta I it sounded superb. As a side note about VCR audio, I remember a Marantz demo for their Beta VCR that had linear stereo and Dolby C noise reduction built in. It was really impressive sound for a linear audio track running at such a slow speed. It's too bad that Sony never told Marantz what they were up to with Beta Hi-Fi - Marantz would have held off on marketing their Beta format VCR until it was reengineered for Hi-Fi. Marantz had to sell the very expensive VCR's for less than $600 only 6 months after they were released when Sony introduced Beta Hi-Fi and made the Marantz stereo capability worthless. Marantz jumped ship to VHS right after that because JVC didn't treat licensees the way Sony treated them.

Playtape's inherent fidelity was such that only a single-ended noise reduction system would probably work - something like DNR or that single-ended system Philips tried to get everyone to use instead of Dolby B on the Compact Cassette.

 

[Bob Squires Jr]

Thanks for the Hip-Pocket Records post, Bob! Hey Jude is edited down to 3:25. BTW: The Beatles' group recordings were NEVER on Apple! What? It can't be. There were lots of LP's, 8-tks, reels, cassettes, 45's and later CD's on the Apple label. Yes, but those only used the Apple name and artwork. All BEATLES recordings were/are released on Capitol, Parlophone or whatever local brand that EMI has used. Likely that will continue under Universal's ownership of EMI.

Yes and you can see the Capitol logo on the little flexi..
I think most of it is out as Parlophone now. Not sure but...

You are quite welcome for the post.
And thank YOU for the pix... I had one of those RCA units at one time.
Found it in the trash and took it home.
I managed to find like 3 tapes for it.

There was also the "Minicassette" as well that was just rim driven, not a capstan like the Microcassette.

 

[Quad Linda]

Everything I've ever owned from the White album and Hey Jude/Revolution on has had Apple labels. The only exception is the LP Mofi Beatles the Collection, which has white Mofi labels with the EMI logo, except the White Album and Abbey Road, which are both white w/Capitol logos. As I recall, my blue UK LP box may have had Parlophone labels on everything. Let it Be was originally on UA in the US, so it had red Apple labels. The recent stereo and mono CD boxes have Apple labels from the White Album on.

Minicassette. Note the round holes at the top corners, which distringuish them from microcassettes:

Minicassette recorder:

Yes and you can see the Capitol logo on the little flexi..
I think most of it is out as Parlophone now. Not sure but...

You are quite welcome for the post.
And thank YOU for the pix... I had one of those RCA units at one time.
Found it in the trash and took it home.
I managed to find like 3 tapes for it.

There was also the "Minicassette" as well that was just rim driven, not a capstan like the Microcassette.

 

[Quad Linda]

Who remembers the predecessor to the 8 track, the 4 track cartridge? No, it's not Quad! Note the squared off, rather than beveled top corners: Four track car tape player:

Playtape in original packaging:

minicassette:

 

[Bob Squires Jr]

They were called Muntz cartridges if I remember... the 8-Tracks were "Lear" carts.
The Muntz carts were 4 track and the pinch roller was in the deck and not the cart.
They were used in radio stations for years.
And in a shiteload of cars....

 

[Disclord]

They were called Muntz cartridges if I remember... the 8-Tracks were "Lear" carts.
The Muntz carts were 4 track and the pinch roller was in the deck and not the cart.
They were used in radio stations for years.
And in a shiteload of cars....

Yep, Muntz started the format and also ran the duplication business. 4 track had better sound than the 8 track since the pinch roller wasn't part of the cartridge. 8 track manufacturers made the roller as cheap as possible, and sometimes it was so cheap it wasn't even completely round. I have an interview from the early 80's with Muntz and he talks a lot about the 4 track cart and the competition with Lear's 8 track. 4 track was a better format, but 8 track won the mass market. And at the time, who knew that the lowly Compact Cassette would be improved to have such fidelity? Dolby and Advent had a lot to do with that.

 

[John Svensson]

Bob- Thanks for that info on the flexi discs...... I have never seen those but am now intrigued. I must have been eating the wrong cereal! John

 

[Bob Squires Jr]

Yep, Muntz started the format and also ran the duplication business. 4 track had better sound than the 8 track since the pinch roller wasn't part of the cartridge. 8 track manufacturers made the roller as cheap as possible, and sometimes it was so cheap it wasn't even completely round. I have an interview from the early 80's with Muntz and he talks a lot about the 4 track cart and the competition with Lear's 8 track. 4 track was a better format, but 8 track won the mass market. And at the time, who knew that the lowly Compact Cassette would be improved to have such fidelity? Dolby and Advent had a lot to do with that.

It seems that in life, the inferior always win out.
Because it's cheaper for the manufacturers.
Less tape in an 8-Track, less moving parts....
6 Hours on VHS as opposed to 4 hours on Beta... etc.
Quality be damned but we can fit 3 smeary movies on one tape!
That was why I had Laserdiscs. But people were too lazy to flip the disc.
Go figure.

 

[cupboy]

I could flip them in total darkness.

 

[Quad Linda]

You've already flipped!!

I could flip them in total darkness.

 

[Quad Linda]

A Gidget would allow you to play a 4 track cartridge on an 8 track machine:

Earl "Madman" Muntz:

They were called Muntz cartridges if I remember... the 8-Tracks were "Lear" carts.
The Muntz carts were 4 track and the pinch roller was in the deck and not the cart.
They were used in radio stations for years.
And in a shiteload of cars....

 

[Quad Linda]

The Muntz 4 track cartridge was based on the NAB/Fidelipac cartridge. Any self-respecting former DJ knows this cartridge, which nearly every radio station used. The cartridge originally had two tracks: one for mono audio and the other for synch. A third track was later added for stereo audio.

Fidelipac Dynamax Tape Machine: Fidelipac changers: http://www.modestoradiomuseum.org/images/automation-equipment.gif

How it's done today:

 

[Quad Linda]

Play cassettes on your 8 track player:

Play FM radio on your 8 track player:

 

[Quad Linda]

More pix for the Playtape fans:

What, no Bella Linda?

More Muntz 4 track:

 

[Bob Romano]

An ad for 1958 Promo for Four-Track Tapes: "A Revolutionary New Triumph in Tape"


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vh07vZ8wM5E
Starts at 7:42

A sampling of the RCA system:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ll_lLimCIjY&fmt=18