Is decoding possible in Soundforge?

[Valhalla]

Hi,
I am new here and have had a quick look at the threads about decoding in Adobe Audition. My brain hurts! I don't have Audition but do have SF 9. Is it possible to do similar things in this app?

Thanks

 

[JonUrban]

I don't think so. I have owned every version of Sound Forge from 4.5, and to my knowledge it does not have the center channel extractor or phase shifting ability of AA.

 

[timbre4]

That would be a no.

In fact many like myself have gone back to SF 8.0. If you came in at 9.0, then you wouldn't feel the workflow pain introduced with 9.0 (missing crossfades, etc) as the rest of experienced SF users.

 

[Lucanu]

OT:
Hey Jon, what about your new avatar??


grooooovy!!
:51banana:

 

[TheTooleMan]

SQ decoding CAN BE DONE in Sony Vegas, with the help of the PhaseBug VST plug-in. http://www.betabugsaudio.com/plugs.php

I'm on Sound Forge 7, which does not support VST plug-ins. If there's a DirectX phase shifter out there, please let me know about it.

 

[Lucanu]

You can play with phase shift with almost any audio editing program but the only one I know that can perform a "center channel extractor" feature is Adobe Audition.
I seem to remember VST plugins which perform voice cancellation but they can't compare to the flexability and quality of Audition CCE, IMHO.

 

[TheTooleMan]

You can play with phase shift with almost any audio editing program but the only one I know that can perform a "center channel extractor" feature is Adobe Audition.
I seem to remember VST plugins which perform voice cancellation but they can't compare to the flexability and quality of Audition CCE, IMHO.

This may open a can of worms, but the +/- 90 degree shifts are the only ones required by the basic SQ decoding algorithm, AFAIK. That's what I was referring to in my reference to PhaseBug. The rest of the CCE processing seems to be primarily intended to remove the rear channel material from the front channels. I found it also introduces a lot of metallic-sounding distortion.

 

[Lucanu]

Phase shift cannot extract channels from matrix, be SQ or QS, but can only play basic directional information, which means it plays, for example, LF exactly where it should be but also the other channels with little or no separation at all! (-3db)
CCE improvement will almost completely cancel crosstalk between channels improving recovering what the original discrete mixing was supposed to play.
Center Channel Extractor not only cancels front/back but side-by-side crosstalk (at least in SQ script)
Maybe the metal artefact you hear could be produced from a not so good setup on your turntable. You should try with a cd that contains original quad mix intact.

 

[TheTooleMan]

Phase shift cannot extract channels from matrix, be SQ or QS, but can only play basic directional information, which means it plays, for example, LF exactly where it should be but also the other channels with little or no separation at all! (-3db)
CCE improvement will almost completely cancel crosstalk between channels improving recovering what the original discrete mixing was supposed to play.
Center Channel Extractor not only cancels front/back but side-by-side crosstalk (at least in SQ script)
Maybe the metal artefact you hear could be produced from a not so good setup on your turntable. You should try with a cd that contains original quad mix intact.

It's not an LP source, it's a professionally-produced pre-broadcast tape of an SQ-encoded program. (It's not a recording of a broadcast, but rather the tape used for broadcast by FM stations.) The "metallic" quality is not evident in the stereo playback of the tape.

There's not a lot of bouncing around between front and back channels in the decoded mix. Nonetheless, I found the resulting mix much richer, more detailed, and more satisfying than the over-processed CCE results.

I think you're description of "CCE improvement" is accurate - it's not textbook SQ decoding, but rather intends to help the effect. It also introduces some artifacts, to my ears. Maybe some tweaking of the center frequencies and other adjustments would help, but that's for someone else who has a more up-to-date version of Audition, not me.

I realize I'm treading on dangerous ground as a neophyte as well as an Audition heretic, so I'll shut up and leave you to your playground before the mud starts flying.

 

[Lucanu]

No problem here, everyone should say what he thinks about scripts, improvements and so on.
Said that, I'm not saying CCE is the best process to improve basic decoding but there's not actually nothing that can do the same or can do better than that.