Player suggestions for quad setups

[duckpin76]

Hi,

I am having the most difficult time trying to find a new or used SACD player to include with my Pioneer quad setup. I have read many reviews of both new and used players and cannot decide which is the best bang for the buck. I would mostly use this for jazz and classical.

I'd like to keep it Pioneer but not married to it. The Luxman D380 looks really nice, as does the Marantz 30n, but both are at the top of the price point. Really, at this time I'm looking for something that is silver and can play in all four speakers. I would say that new or used, $2K would be the most I would spend. Around $1K would be a target, but would be interested to hear what you suggest no matter what. I would welcome any suggestions you have at this point.

Thanks,
Brian

 

[quicksrt]

I would think of considering 5.1 for your amp or AVR for starters. There are far too many great 5.1 mixed discs to consider just quad or 4.0 only. If the Pioneer is 4-channel only, I would consider you getting (upgrading) a used Yamaha that has 7.1 analog inputs as well as HDMI ins/outs. A model that is old enough to include analog ins, and new enough to include HDMI, then have the best of all worlds. Budget about $125 TO $150 for a used model in near perfect condition, and get one that includes the remote control.

 

[SeeMoreDigital]

@duckpin76

Am I correct in assuming that your "Pioneer quad setup" incorporates RCA/phono analogue inputs only?

If so, you won't find an 'new' SACD capable disc spinner from a 'known' manufacturer which offers multi-channel analogue outputs.

There are however a couple of Chinese universal disc spinners that do offer multi-channel analogue outputs (along with HDMI digital outputs) but in my opinion they are are way over-priced for an unknown manufacturer with no pedigree.

EDIT: It would appear that the Luxman D380 does not offer SACD playback. And although the Marantz n30 does, it's a stereo only device.

 

[AJCxZ0]

I am having the most difficult time trying to find a new or used SACD player to include with my Pioneer quad setup.

If we are supposed to know the details of your "Pioneer quad setup", then I have missed it along with that you want to keep "Pioneer".

If you want to play multi-channel audio on SACDs, then your cheapest new option is likely a Sony BD player such as the UBPX700/M. My new UBP-X700 cost $117.64 in 2020. You will of course need a digital connection - specifically HDMI - to get the DSD digital audio from the disc to the DAC capable of processing DSD, otherwise you will have to make compromises and choices involving transcoding the digital audio. For used options, any Oppo BD player would be a great choice for playing any format disc up to BD (or UHD-BD). Both my BDP-80s continue to perform flawlessly. If you want the player to include the processor and DAC, providing analogue outputs, then you may be interested in the BDP-83 or a few of the newer Oppo models, while understanding that these are old electronics and that Oppo left the market some years ago (yet continues to provide limited support).

Given the challenge which is finding units in silver, you might consider an inexpensive conversion kit.

 

[duckpin76]

If we are supposed to know the details of your "Pioneer quad setup", then I have missed it along with that you want to keep "Pioneer".

If you want to play multi-channel audio on SACDs, then your cheapest new option is likely a Sony BD player such as the UBPX700/M. My new UBP-X700 cost $117.64 in 2020. You will of course need a digital connection - specifically HDMI - to get the DSD digital audio from the disc to the DAC capable of processing DSD, otherwise you will have to make compromises and choices involving transcoding the digital audio. For used options, any Oppo BD player would be a great choice for playing any format disc up to BD (or UHD-BD). Both my BDP-80s continue to perform flawlessly. If you want the player to include the processor and DAC, providing analogue outputs, then you may be interested in the BDP-83 or a few of the newer Oppo models, while understanding that these are old electronics and that Oppo left the market some years ago (yet continues to provide limited support).

Given the challenge which is finding units in silver, you might consider an inexpensive conversion kit.

Had a good laugh over the Rustoleum link - thanks for that. In hindsight, I suppose I would be more concerned with the sound than silver.

SeeMoreDigital: Would like to avoid Chinese-made components, but you kind of allude to that.

My Pioneer system is in progress. Eventually it will be a QX-949 or 949A, along with an QC-800a and QM-800a. So one of those setups would receive the SACD player. I'm just trying to map this out now and budget what I will need to put it together over time.

AJCx70: While the Oppo sounds good, I think I would rather have something more current like the Sony UBP. Could you give me a link to what I would need in between the Sony and the Pioneer? (This is all new to me. This thread is what started this all for me and gave me hope that I could play more titles via SACD.)

Thanks everyone.
Brian

 

[SeeMoreDigital]

My Pioneer system is in progress. Eventually it will be a QX-949 or 949A, along with an QC-800a and QM-800a. So one of those setups would receive the SACD player. I'm just trying to map this out now and budget what I will need to put it together over time.

So... You want to go 'old school' with your amplification. This should be fine provided your proposed receivers offer discrete 4-channel analogue inputs and discrete 4-channel amplification.

AJCxZ0: While the Oppo sounds good, I think I would rather have something more current like the Sony UBP. Could you give me a link to what I would need in between the Sony and the Pioneer? (This is all new to me. This thread is what started this all for me and gave me hope that I could play more titles via SACD.)

Unfortunately none of the 'current' Sony players will be suitable for your 'analogue' needs as they don't offer multi-channel analogue outputs. You need a disc player which offers multi-channel analogue outputs and as mentioned before, no 'known' (branded) manufacturer makes players with multi-channel analogue outputs anymore. Indeed even Pioneer hasn't made an SACD capable disc spinner with multi-channel analogue outputs for over 10 years!

I reckon you're going to have to go down the second-hand route for your multi-channel analogue output disc spinner too!

 

[duckpin76]

This Sony SCD-CE595 just went up on Reverb - is this what I need to hook it straight to a Pioneer amp? Looks like analog outputs … just found a couple locally that are half that price on Marketplace.

Funny, I have a five-disc CD player from Sony that I bought in 1994 and it still works fantastic.

 

[AJCxZ0]

I suppose I would be more concerned with the sound than silver.

As much as I like black, the lack of choice of finishes in the vast majority of electronic components is a shame. I suspect that the designers presume that the significant majority of owners only want their gear to disappear in a dark room... except for the blinding blue LED.

While the Oppo sounds good, I think I would rather have something more current like the Sony UBP. Could you give me a link to what I would need in between the Sony and the Pioneer?

where

My Pioneer system is in progress. Eventually it will be a QX-949 or 949A, along with an QC-800a and QM-800a.

Presuming that "the Pioneer" is "My Pioneer" which does not exist and that you you want to build a vintage system despite saying that you want something more current than any Oppo, I think @SeeMoreDigital covered everything important in his answer.
It's unclear to me why in an age of object audio you want a vintage receiver to play modern digital multi-channel recordings which can be played so well, easily and cheaply (without any downmixing) with modern gear. If that's really what you want (for unstated reasons) and you need multi-channel analogue outputs, then you should follow my suggestion to buy an Oppo BDP-83; if you can find one, a BDP-83SE NuForce Edition. FWIW, the quality of these old Oppo units is far better than that of my flimsy, plasticy Sony UHD-BD player, which not only feels like it will break each time I use it, but has literally the worst UI I have ever seen.

One tip if you do decide to buy a BD player: you will want a display which uses HDMI at least for the initial setup. If you want to keep the display connected for visual elements when playing media, then it should support HDCP.

PS. AJCx70 thinks you need to use @ to refer to usernames and practice quoting.

 

[duckpin76]

As much as I like black, the lack of choice of finishes in the vast majority of electronic components is a shame. I suspect that the designers presume that the significant majority of owners only want their gear to disappear in a dark room... except for the blinding blue LED.

where

Presuming that "the Pioneer" is "My Pioneer" which does not exist and that you you want to build a vintage system despite saying that you want something more current than any Oppo, I think @SeeMoreDigital covered everything important in his answer.
It's unclear to me why in an age of object audio you want a vintage receiver to play modern digital multi-channel recordings which can be played so well, easily and cheaply (without any downmixing) with modern gear. If that's really what you want (for unstated reasons) and you need multi-channel analogue outputs, then you should follow my suggestion to buy an Oppo BDP-83; if you can find one, a BDP-83SE NuForce Edition. FWIW, the quality of these old Oppo units is far better than that of my flimsy, plasticy Sony UHD-BD player, which not only feels like it will break each time I use it, but has literally the worst UI I have ever seen.

One tip if you do decide to buy a BD player: you will want a display which uses HDMI at least for the initial setup. If you want to keep the display connected for visual elements when playing media, then it should support HDCP.

PS. AJCx70 thinks you need to use @ to refer to usernames and practice quoting.

@AJCxZ0 I just joined this forum recently, so I’m not all that versed in how the board works. Regardless …

I am primarily setting up Pioneer quad components from 1976 or thereabouts, the year I was born. So I’m on the hunt for 8-track, cassette, phono, etc. from that time period. However, learning that SACD gives you four-channel sound and with (I’m assuming) a larger catalog than just vinyl from the 70s has me wanting one modern piece to go with the entire vintage setup. So, that’s why I’m asking.

Because I’m so new to this, my ideas are evolving as I learn more. So whereas I wanted something newer, now I discover (as of this morning) that Sony SDE-CE595 five-disc player, and there is one a few miles from my house. However I will also look at that Oppo you referenced.

Sorry if I’m all over the place but I am completely new to the quad word.

Brian

 

[jupp369]

@AJCx70 I just joined this forum recently, so I’m not all that versed in how the board works. Regardless …

I am primarily setting up Pioneer quad components from 1976 or thereabouts, the year I was born. So I’m on the hunt for 8-track, cassette, phono, etc. from that time period. However, learning that SACD gives you four-channel sound and with (I’m assuming) a larger catalog than just vinyl from the 70s has me wanting one modern piece to go with the entire vintage setup. So, that’s why I’m asking.

Because I’m so new to this, my ideas are evolving as I learn more. So whereas I wanted something newer, now I discover (as of this morning) that Sony SDE-CE595 five-disc player, and there is one a few miles from my house. However I will also look at that Oppo you referenced.

Sorry if I’m all over the place but I am completely new to the quad word.

Brian

Hi,
I'm also new to Dolby Surround Theme and face a lot of variatons and systems. Hard to follow.
I have modified my old JVC 5436's and GX500 and SEH405, so I can play my recorded CD-4 Vinyl's (with carrier) from several media players (wav 192/24).
I gave the JVC's also a (internal) SQ decoder. Now the carrier signal switches automatical between CD-4 and SQ. (The JVC's got also 3 more matrix systems.)

Now I found a lot of offical downloadable (YouTube) 4.0 and 5.x music. But they need a media player with 4 or 6 analog out.
Oppo is a possible, best solution if you can get one. A member here (Mackspower) gave me the hint to the (old) Dune HD Max, so I bought one ($ 200), gave it a 2TB disc, and the trouble began:
It plays all multichannel wav at half speed. So I looked around for an Audio-HDMI to 6 RCA's to use a newer player, but didn't find. But I found some 5.1 players with analog out and asked a chinese manufacturer, who offers also wav 4.0, if it's really working, and it is.
AYINO stated: "You need 4.0CH output, it is recommended to choose hd920 ($ 120) and/or hd950 ($ 150), chip processing separation is better. thank you"
and the long link: https://de.aliexpress.com/item/4001184212010.html?pdp_npi=3@dis!USD!US $169.00!US $118.30!!!!!@2140d31d16828253948663113e5bb4!10000015179291428!im!!&gatewayAdapt=glo2deu

This weekend I discovered that the Dune plays all multichannel flac without problems and it plays also ISO files. But no multichannel wav. But it plays my CD-4 recordings in 192/24 wav without problems.
So I connected the front and rear channels to the 4 ch JVC tape play (line in, behind/instead the matrixes) inputs and have the 4.0 stream on my normal 4 speakers, also with bass from rear. And separation is very good, no mix.
For the Sub and Center I'll use a small stereo amp ($ 40 from china), so I can play 5.1 (, or with another amp 7.1, but I think it's not needed).

This morning I got an idea how to switch automatical between the stereo in for CD-4/SQ and 4.0/ 5.1: will be done by 2 tiny relais switched by the rear audio signal channels from the Dune, what I already have at the rear line in at the JVC.
The sub and center are only sometimes in use for 5.x, so I can leave them as they are, don't care.

 

[Rango]

DVD-A & SACD surround audio seems to be in a bit of a death spiral. I ran a few searches last week and as far as I can tell it's only Sony that are producing brand new players that are DVD-A & SACD compatible; although they have trouble playing DVD-R, if you have stuff from small independents.

If you have the money to spend, it might be worth looking at the used market, for legacy hardware, but as you've probably seen, that stuff is carrying a big premium these days and whether it's worth the money is debatable and really subjective (to how much disposable cash you have).

Personally I'd look at newer hardware for higher resolution Bluray and Atmos (7.1) surround. Maybe spread your budget to include a new player and receiver, but then you'll probably also need a few more (possibly matching?) speakers...?...so that might not be cost-effective for you in the short term?

Trying to keep old tech alive can be a false economy; I have a lot of retro video gaming stuff that started off as being more cost-effective than buying newly released stuff but at this point it requires a small fortune to keep it all viable. I'm at the point where I'm probably just going to be letting it go and looking to the future...

...if you think of it as an investment in your well-being it might be worth spending more on upgrading your entire setup...?...but I'd suggest spreading your existing budget to purchase an entry level Atmos setup, see how you do with it, and then go from there.

One thing to be cognisant of, is whether the new hardware will be compatible with older quad formats, for instance, if you have a lot of vinyl quad releases?

 

[jupp369]

DVD-A & SACD surround audio seems to be in a bit of a death spiral. I ran a few searches last week and as far as I can tell it's only Sony that are producing brand new players that are DVD-A & SACD compatible; although they have trouble playing DVD-R, if you have stuff from small independents.

The state of the art is reminiscent of 50 years ago: everyone has a better system, everyone flattens each other and the third party has a good laugh.
At the radio exhibition in Berlin a few years ago when HD came along: We already broadcast with even much higher resolution, wait a little longer with the new TV ...
And for the young generation ist enough to stream a bit aktual music on their smartphones ... nobody knows about quad

 

[par4ken]

Hi,

I am having the most difficult time trying to find a new or used SACD player to include with my Pioneer quad setup. I have read many reviews of both new and used players and cannot decide which is the best bang for the buck. I would mostly use this for jazz and classical.

I'd like to keep it Pioneer but not married to it. The Luxman D380 looks really nice, as does the Marantz 30n, but both are at the top of the price point. Really, at this time I'm looking for something that is silver and can play in all four speakers. I would say that new or used, $2K would be the most I would spend. Around $1K would be a target, but would be interested to hear what you suggest no matter what. I would welcome any suggestions you have at this point.

Thanks,
Brian

If you are willing to spend up to $2K, look for a used Oppo. BDP-103, BDP-105, UDP-203, UDP-205!

 

[barfle]

@AJCxZ0 I just joined this forum recently, so I’m not all that versed in how the board works. Regardless …

I am primarily setting up Pioneer quad components from 1976 or thereabouts, the year I was born. So I’m on the hunt for 8-track, cassette, phono, etc. from that time period. However, learning that SACD gives you four-channel sound and with (I’m assuming) a larger catalog than just vinyl from the 70s has me wanting one modern piece to go with the entire vintage setup. So, that’s why I’m asking.

Because I’m so new to this, my ideas are evolving as I learn more. So whereas I wanted something newer, now I discover (as of this morning) that Sony SDE-CE595 five-disc player, and there is one a few miles from my house. However I will also look at that Oppo you referenced.

Sorry if I’m all over the place but I am completely new to the quad word.

Brian

Sadly, no rookie orientation here. Jump in and swim is how it seems to work!

Nonetheless, while I admire your desire to have a vintage system, a lot of SACDs are mixed 5.1, so having a player that would spread the center channel (or do it manually?) is important.

 

[SeeMoreDigital]

Nonetheless, while I admire your desire to have a vintage system, a lot of SACDs are mixed 5.1, so having a player that would spread the center channel (or do it manually?) is important.

There's nothing stopping @duckpin76 incorporating separate amplifier(s) to achieve a full 5.1 of even 7.1 set-up - Which is what I've done with my analogue system...

 

[barfle]

There's nothing stopping @duckpin76 incorporating separate amplifier(s) to achieve a full 5.1 of even 7.1 set-up - Which is what I've done with my analogue system...

Of course there isn’t, but it would involve a bit of a pain with the volume control (s). I’m thinking some sort of outboard resistor network to blend the center and LFE channels into the four of his desired setup, which wouldn’t be rocket science, just pretty basic electronics.

 

[SeeMoreDigital]

Of course there isn’t, but it would involve a bit of a pain with the volume control (s). I’m thinking some sort of outboard resistor network to blend the center and LFE channels into the four of his desired setup, which wouldn’t be rocket science, just pretty basic electronics.

This is where the OPPO players come into their-own, as you can use the players 'speaker configuration' option to balance the audio levels to all your amplifiers individually. In @duckpin76's case, once the levels of any additional power amplifiers have been balanced to the quad amplifier, you then use the OPPO's volume control to adjust the overall volume level to all the amplifiers at the same time.

Personally I have one integrated pre/power amplifier and three power amplifiers (I don't run a sub or LFE). It all works a treat...

 

[jupp369]

Of course there isn’t, but it would involve a bit of a pain with the volume control (s). I’m thinking some sort of outboard resistor network to blend the center and LFE channels into the four of his desired setup, which wouldn’t be rocket science, just pretty basic electronics.

... don't have pain ... edit a downloaded file (not the official DVD's) and bring the tracks to the right volume before playing.
Rest is up to your remote control's main volume ...

 

[kfbkfb]

Hi,
I'm also new to Dolby Surround Theme and face a lot of variatons and systems. Hard to follow.
I have modified my old JVC 5436's and GX500 and SEH405, so I can play my recorded CD-4 Vinyl's (with carrier) from several media players (wav 192/24).

Kind of off topic, however:
https://classicreceivers.com/jvc-4vr-5456^^^
Matrix 1 is for SQ records while Matrix 2 QS or E-V matrix recordings.


http://www.thevintageknob.org/jvc-4VR5436.html
Try Matrix 2 (Sansui QS) instead of Matrix 1 for creating fake surround sound from any stereo content (the Sansui QS matrix decoding system was originally developed to create fake quad sound from stereo).

Matrix 2/QS also works very well for decoding Dolby Surround encoded content (older movies and many TV shows produced in the 1990s have Dolby Surround encoded soundtracks).


Kirk Bayne

 

[jupp369]

Kind of off topic, however:
https://classicreceivers.com/jvc-4vr-5456^^^
Matrix 1 is for SQ records while Matrix 2 QS or E-V matrix recordings.


http://www.thevintageknob.org/jvc-4VR5436.html
Try Matrix 2 (Sansui QS) instead of Matrix 1 for creating fake surround sound from any stereo content (the Sansui QS matrix decoding system was originally developed to create fake quad sound from stereo).

Matrix 2/QS also works very well for decoding Dolby Surround encoded content (older movies and many TV shows produced in the 1990s have Dolby Surround encoded soundtracks).


Kirk Bayne

In the JVC's matrix 1 & 2 consists only of 2 resistors crossing both front channels, so I gave it the motorola decoder.
... JVC was not interrested in a good matrix ...