Suggestions for Audio Fidelity Multichannel SACD Releases

[fredblue]

Adam, I hope you don't think my remarks disparaging regarding your excursions into SQ/QS/CD~4 vinyl......believe me, I WAS there at the onset of the QUAD revolution in the early 70's, but when I heard what AF has done with the original QUAD masters, I wish I could go "back to the Future" and say QUAD was an encouraging format during those early days......yeah, if they had 180g SQ/CD~4 pressings, something 'remotely' similar to today's surround master, I'm sure MOST artists including the 'hold~outs' would've embraced the format and we'd ALL be enjoying EVERYTHING in surround today....but sadly, that was NOT the case.

Which is why I encourage EVERYONE on this forum and those many visitors to email Marshall @ AF with sincere thanks and encouragement to continue on with it's QUAD releases as, IMO, AF is THE only company willing to take this multitudinous risk in 2016 to release these old but brilliant QUAD/5.1 remasters.

It only takes a few moments but perhaps if enough of us email our sentiments, a miracle will happen and AF will acquiesce and continue on with a 'hearty' cornucopia of Surround releases.

Not in the least! I was pretty disparaging about SQ.. (to the point of almost total dismissal to be honest, to my shame! ) until I started fiddle farting around with that diddy lil' Surround Master and its been quite the eye (and ear) opener, a real education!

Of course it must be gratifying, AF no doubt welcome emails of thanks and support and congrats etc.. but they're a business so they've got their bottom line = sales.. we must vote with our wallets and buy buy buy these AF discs..!! ...and hopefully as quicksrt says sales will be brisk for the new L&M and BOC SACDs.. and that might help keep the AF Quad ship in Full Sail..!

 

[rtbluray]

Both of the Loggins & Messina Surround Sound SACDs have proven to be winners. I was surprised by the amount of low end/bass on the self-titled album in SACD Surround from Audio Fidelity.
Full Sail in SACD Surround is another winner. A big thumbs up here!

Does this mean that Audio Fidelity may look into releasing the final L&M Quad title, "Native Sons", in the near future?

 

[quicksrt]

Does this mean that Audio Fidelity may look into releasing the final L&M Quad title, "Native Sons", in the near future?

I would think that there are too many good gold and platinum albums with hits and deep tracks still adored by radio and fans alike, that Native Sons would come in very very low on the list of potential albums AF might consider for SACD.

 

[fredblue]

I would think that there are too many good gold and platinum albums with hits and deep tracks still adored by radio and fans alike, that Native Sons would come in very very low on the list of potential albums AF might consider for SACD.

I understand it's less commercial than many others but it would be a shame if it never saw a modern day surround reissue since it was only ever available in SQ LP form back in the day with no discrete Q8 option.

 

[ar surround]

Adam, I hope you don't think my remarks disparaging regarding your excursions into SQ/QS/CD~4 vinyl......believe me, I WAS there at the onset of the QUAD revolution in the early 70's, but when I heard what AF has done with the original QUAD masters, I wish I could go "back to the Future" and say QUAD was an encouraging format during those early days......yeah, if they had 180g SQ/CD~4 pressings, something 'remotely' similar to today's surround master, I'm sure MOST artists including the 'hold~outs' would've embraced the format and we'd ALL be enjoying EVERYTHING in surround today....but sadly, that was NOT the case...

Amen. Those quad vinyl pressings sounded so muddy, or noisy in the case of CD-4, that I got rid of most of them. It should be mandatory study for people who never heard quad back in the day to listen to those pressings followed by the AF SACD reissues. No comparison. Not even bloody close! Can't wait for Full Sail to ship out tomorrow.

 

[4-earredwonder]

Amen. Those quad vinyl pressings sounded so muddy, or noisy in the case of CD-4, that I got rid of most of them. It should be mandatory study for people who never heard quad back in the day to listen to those pressings followed by the AF SACD reissues. No comparison. Not even bloody close! Can't wait for Full Sail to ship out tomorrow.

ar, I think the real culprit back in those early QUAD vinyl days was the vinyl itself which was sometimes recycled with the paper label intact causing all types of nightmares. Open Reel was popular but a niche market and Dolby and high end manufacturers like Nakamichi were 'perfecting' the cassette which won the 'tape' war over Open Reel/8 track with its portability factor (the precursor of the MP3 takeover?).

The big problem, ar, is the paucity of QUAD hi res physical disc releases which unfortunately pales in comparison to the thousands of QUAD releases available on disc/8 track. We ALL know they're inferior to, for instance, today's AF Quad SACD releases from the original analogue QUAD masters but lovers of 'anything' surround have little option if they seek to hear those surround releases only available in those archaic formats.

A challenge, yes, but it does have its rewards......I suppose.

As far as capturing the abundant subtleties inherent in today's latest SACD QUAD remasters, VERY doubtful that with even the finest turntable/cartridge/decoders available today, those SQ/QS/especially CD~4 vinyl counterparts would be remotely in the same league.

 

[quicksrt]

ar, I think the real culprit back in those early QUAD vinyl days was the vinyl itself which was sometimes recycled with the paper label intact causing all types of nightmares. Open Reel was popular but a niche market and Dolby and high end manufacturers like Nakamichi were 'perfecting' the cassette which won the 'tape' war over Open Reel/8 track with its portability factor (the precursor of the MP3 takeover?).

The big problem, ar, is the paucity of QUAD hi res physical disc releases which unfortunately pales in comparison to the thousands of QUAD releases available on disc/8 track. We ALL know they're inferior to, for instance, today's AF Quad SACD releases from the original analogue QUAD masters but lovers of 'anything' surround have little option if they seek to hear those surround releases only available in those archaic formats.

A challenge, yes, but it does have its rewards......I suppose.

As far as capturing the abundant subtleties inherent in today's latest SACD QUAD remasters, VERY doubtful that with even the finest turntable/cartridge/decoders available today, those SQ/QS/especially CD~4 vinyl counterparts would be remotely in the same league.

I have had my share of poor LP pressings, but with quadraphonic LPs, I had mostly all good luck. I found exceptional sounding copies of Toys in the Attic, A Space in Time, Rocks, Get Your Wings, WYWH, Aqualung, and various other SQ vinyl LPs. Even CD-4 LPs, I always thought sounded very dynamic and bright = clear in a good way. I found some quad in the cutout bins in previously handled/played condition, those were the only if'y ones. That was my draw to quad LPs at first because I had nothing to decode them with. They mostly all had wonderful sound even when played in stereo, and featured a different mix of course.

For decoding ability and over-all quality of sound, I would have to go with CD-4 over any other when it comes to vinyl.

(edit)
I just read this post (of mine) and realized it was a total thread jack. I am sorry about that. So I'll offer up something on topic soon, sorry.

 

[ar surround]

I have had my share of poor LP pressings, but with quadraphonic LPs, I had mostly all good luck. I found exceptional sounding copies of Toys in the Attic, A Space in Time, Rocks, Get Your Wings, WYWH, Aqualung, and various other SQ vinyl LPs. Even CD-4 LPs, I always thought sounded very dynamic and bright = clear in a good way. I found some quad in the cutout bins in previously handled/played condition, those were the only if'y ones. That was my draw to quad LPs at first because I had nothing to decode them with. They mostly all had wonderful sound even when played in stereo, and featured a different mix of course.

For decoding ability and over-all quality of sound, I would have to go with CD-4 over any other when it comes to vinyl.

(edit)
I just read this post (of mine) and realized it was a total thread jack. I am sorry about that. So I'll offer up something on topic soon, sorry.

Of the ones you mention, I only had a snippet from I'd Love To Change the World and the WYWH album. Yes, these sounded very good. Loggins & Messina was also a very good sounding SQ. Unfortunately, it seems that many of my selected quad albums generally ranged into the muddy/noisy territory with a constrained sound stage. I did not have the quad Full Sail but loved listening to the stereo in faux surround, so that's why I'm very excited to be getting the full discreet quad boat. (These seafaring puns have simply got to stop! :sun)

 

[kap'n krunch]

(derail)
My SQ LP sounds great! Maybe I was lucky..

Anyway, I ordered this SACD too!!!

 

[fredblue]

(derail)
My SQ LP sounds great! Maybe I was lucky..

Anyway, I ordered this SACD too!!!

Yeah I have to stand up for SQ here for a minute too kap, my LPs far from mint and still sounds pretty decent.. hate to tempt fate as its not arrived yet (grr!) but from the comments coming thru on here already I feel an easy "9" or "10" coming on with this SACD..!

 

[fredblue]

Hope you had a good time with all of that on the menu.

"Have a good time.. (good time baby).. have a good time.. (good time child)... have a good time..!" :banana:

[video=youtube;GVwTbWmOsfw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVwTbWmOsfw[/video]

 

[fredblue]

Oh, well you are in for a treat! I listened to it twice last night blazing with good volume and sitting in the sweetest spot. It sounded great from the get go, and one really does get a sense of a strong center channel with some vocals coming from the center speaker which is not really there (or not on).

But, the album really shifts into gear at track 5 for me. The long song that closes out side one of the LP. And then from there on (to side two) to the end is an amazing display as what quad can do for showing off the players and their parts separately and as a whole.. Jim Messina's back-up or support vocals on Watching the River Run, to say nothing of his guitar work on the entire album really show what class and musical experience he brought to the production of these songs.

So one gets to hear all these parts that they placed in rears, and then the main parts in front, so separated and yet it all comes together in your listening room, a fresher mix being mixed right there on the spot. It never gets gimmicky. There are no pans here. It's meticulously mixed quadraphonic, and sound quality is 10/10.

Just as I hoped, in my top 3 from Audio Fidelity.

Larry Keyes; the Elliot Scheiner of Quad.
..when he got it right he really nailed it (imho)

Edit: Just in case any of you want to track down his mixes and see what I mean about the quality of his work when at his best, or just refresh the memory banks of some wonderful surround music from days gone by, some of his best Quads include..

E. Power Biggs - Music For Organ, Brass & Percussion
Earth, Wind & Fire - Spirit
Holst - The Planets; Bernstein & NY Phil.
Isley Brothers - Go For Your Guns
BT Express - Energy To Burn
Peter Matz - A Quadraphonic Spectacular
Lee Michaels - Nice Day For Something
Loggins & Messina - S/T
Loggins & Messina - Full Sail
Johnny Nash - My Merry Go Round
Billy Paul - 360 Degrees Of..
Johnnie Taylor - Eargasm
Wild Cherry - Electrified Funk (w/Don Puluse)
Poco - Crazy Eyes
The Raiders - Indian Reservation
Santana - S/T
Santana - Santana III
Santana - Caravanserai
Santana & John McLaughlin - Love, Devotion, Surrender
Company - A Musical Comedy (Original Cast Recording)
Percy Faith - Black Magic Woman
Morton Subotnick - Sidewinder
Ten Years After - A Space In Time..

 

[himey]

Larry Keyes; the Elliot Scheiner of Quad.
..when he got it right he really nailed it (imho)

Edit: Just in case any of you want to track down his mixes and see what I mean about the quality of his work when at his best, or just refresh the memory banks of some wonderful surround music from days gone by, some of his best Quads include..

E. Power Biggs - Music For Organ, Brass & Percussion
Earth, Wind & Fire - Spirit
Holst - The Planets; Bernstein & NY Phil.
Isley Brothers - Go For Your Guns
BT Express - Energy To Burn
Peter Matz - A Quadraphonic Spectacular
Lee Michaels - Nice Day For Something
Loggins & Messina - S/T
Loggins & Messina - Full Sail
Johnny Nash - My Merry Go Round
Billy Paul - 360 Degrees Of..
Johnnie Taylor - Eargasm
Wild Cherry - Electrified Funk (w/Don Puluse)
Poco - Crazy Eyes
The Raiders - Indian Reservation
Santana - S/T
Santana - Santana III
Santana - Caravanserai
Santana & John McLaughlin - Love, Devotion, Surrender
Company - A Musical Comedy (Original Cast Recording)
Percy Faith - Black Magic Woman
Morton Subotnick - Sidewinder
Ten Years After - A Space In Time..

Holy crap, what an excellent resume! All the ones I have heard are my favorites. Thanks for the list...

 

[quicksrt]

Holy crap, what an excellent resume! All the ones I have heard are my favorites. Thanks for the list...

Yeah Santana - Caravanserai and Ten Years After - A Space In Time, are two for the ages. Very important rock albums, and in quad do not disappoint!

 

[himey]

Yeah Santana - Caravanserai and Ten Years After - A Space In Time, are two for the ages. Very important rock albums, and in quad do not disappoint!

Yup, those two blow me away every time. Wish I could find the dvd-v of the Ten Years After and upgrade my conversion I have which is really good but that mix deserves better. That mix is easy top ten AF wish list material along with Caravanserai!

...or a Larry Keyes quad boxset, Keyes Quadio bluray set!

 

[steelydave]

I think some of the best CBS (Columbia/Epic/PIR/etc.) quads were the ones where Larry Keyes either supervised or collaborated with the band's preferred engineer or the engineer that mixed the stereo version. It seems like the combination of Keyes' technical know-how and skill for aggressive but sympathetic quad mixing combined with the intrinsic knowledge of the band from the original stereo engineer led to some great quad mixes. These include:

Santana - Caravanserai (Keyes supervising Glen Kolotkin)
Loggins & Messina - Full Sail (Al Lawrence supervising Keyes and Alex Kazanegras)
Maynard Ferguson - Conquistador (Keyes supervising Joe Jorgensen)
Ten Years After - A Space In Time (Al Lawrence & Chris Kimsey supervising Keyes)
Johnny Mathis - I'm Coming Home (Keyes supervising Don Murray)
Wild Cherry - Electrified Funk (Keyes supervising Don Puluse)
Billy Paul - 360 Degrees Of (Joe Tarsia supervising Keyes)
Johnny Nash - My Merry Go Round (Al Lawrence supervising Keyes and Tony Reale)
Johnnie Taylor - Eargasm - (Don Davis & Al Lawrence supervising Keyes)

I think Adam's 'Elliott Scheiner of quad' is right on the money.

 

[4-earredwonder]

Larry Keyes; the Elliot Scheiner of Quad.
..when he got it right he really nailed it (imho)

Edit: Just in case any of you want to track down his mixes and see what I mean about the quality of his work when at his best, or just refresh the memory banks of some wonderful surround music from days gone by, some of his best Quads include..

E. Power Biggs - Music For Organ, Brass & Percussion
Earth, Wind & Fire - Spirit
Holst - The Planets; Bernstein & NY Phil.
Isley Brothers - Go For Your Guns
BT Express - Energy To Burn
Peter Matz - A Quadraphonic Spectacular
Lee Michaels - Nice Day For Something
Loggins & Messina - S/T
Loggins & Messina - Full Sail
Johnny Nash - My Merry Go Round
Billy Paul - 360 Degrees Of..
Johnnie Taylor - Eargasm
Wild Cherry - Electrified Funk (w/Don Puluse)
Poco - Crazy Eyes
The Raiders - Indian Reservation
Santana - S/T
Santana - Santana III
Santana - Caravanserai
Santana & John McLaughlin - Love, Devotion, Surrender
Company - A Musical Comedy (Original Cast Recording)
Percy Faith - Black Magic Woman
Morton Subotnick - Sidewinder
Ten Years After - A Space In Time..

Adam, MANY thanks for that list.

When one thinks of ALL the hours Mr Keyes spent meticulously mixing these past treasures and how they ONLY exist on vinyl and could sound so much more robust as QUAD SACDs, one can only shudder.

Could SONY Japan conceivably release a Santana QUAD boxset in those splashy 7x7" cardboard sleeves with the Quadraphonic emblem splashed across the top........Oh, one could ONLY wish.

Great titles, Adam, one and ALL and really wish they'd reissue the Ten Years After DVD~V with reversed front/rear channels as a QUAD SACD.

 

[quicksrt]

Adam, MANY thanks for that list.

When one thinks of ALL the hours Mr Keyes spent meticulously mixing these past treasures and how they ONLY exist on vinyl and could sound so much more robust as QUAD SACDs, one can only shudder.

Could SONY Japan conceivably release a Santana QUAD boxset in those splashy 7x7" cardboard sleeves with the Quadraphonic emblem splashed across the top........Oh, one could ONLY wish.

Great titles, Adam, one and ALL and really wish they'd reissue the Ten Years After DVD~V with reversed front/rear channels as a QUAD SACD.

Every time I hear a good SACD or DVD of an old quad mix that really works, I think about the decades that tape sat there in the vault gathering dust, and being ignored. It's a sad thing when the mix just screams skillful talent and passion.

Sony Japan could produce a box set of Santana quads. The price would be through the roof. We would be better off with single disc releases.

The Ten Years After album could be reissued with corrected channels and in high-res. It is one that is not off the table. Those tapes are at Warners now. Let's just say that they have been considered.

 

[ar surround]

Every time I hear a good SACD or DVD of an old quad mix that really works, I think about the decades that tape sat there in the vault gathering dust, and being ignored. It's a sad thing when the mix just screams skillful talent and passion.

Sony Japan could produce a box set of Santana quads. The price would be through the roof. We would be better off with single disc releases.

The Ten Years After album could be reissued with corrected channels and in high-res. It is one that is not off the table. Those tapes are at Warners now. Let's just say that they have been considered.

I would definitely buy the Ten Years After album if AF would do it with the channel assignment corrected and on SACD. I never listen to it as the channel swap drives me crazy. And as far as switching the RCA plugs, well Monsters don't come out that easily once they're plugged in.

 

[quicksrt]

Maybe AF have backed themselves into a 4-channel corner, and they now know that if there is a quad master available for one of their projects, then they have to utilize it. Their product is just too special, too uniquely high-end, and they have paved the way the last two years.

An Apple Pie without some cheese
Is like a Kiss without a squeeze

Remember where that came from???