jimfisheye
2K Club - QQ Super Nova
- Joined
- Jan 8, 2010
- Messages
- 3,439
Quick version:
The dts 24/96 format is often criticized for poor sound due to its lossy nature.
The ringer is the dts 24/48 decode. The dts 24/96 format is apparently obscure enough that some decoder apps, media player apps, and hardware disc players only see it as 24/48. There is no reason to be critiquing the core dts 16/48 "legacy" decode right now - it is what it is - so ignoring that here.
Digital files that are identical (same ones and zeros) will sound exactly the same. If you think you hear something different, it's either your perception playing tricks or equipment malfunction.
When you subtract an exact copy of a digital file from itself; just like 1-1=0, the result is all zeros which is perfect silence. The more signal you hear and see in the result of that subtraction, the more different the files are.
There are five 8 second files in the quick sample folder:
loud_sample_LPCM = the lossless master for reference
loud_sample_DTS2496 = the DTS24/96 fully decoded for reference
loud_sample_LPCM-DTS2496 = difference from lossless LPCM and DTS24/96 fully decoded
loud_sample_DTS2496-DTS2448(src96k) = difference from DTS24/96 fully decoded and a lesser DTS24/48 decode
loud_sample_LPCM-LPCM(src48ksrc96k) = difference from a sample rate conversion only on the same source (for reference and sanity check)
The stereo versions are just the front L,R channels of the 5.1 files. Odd to hear isolated but plenty sufficient to quickly hear what's going on.
You can even clearly hear the artifacts (or lack thereof) after converting these sample files to mp3.
Download here -> https://copy.com/DIR8FXWdBhKcXboO
Note the quick folder for short attention spans.
Long version:
There are two 8 second samples from a song.
Then a number of different null (difference) tests run between lossless master and the different dts decodes of them them.
You can knock yourself out comparing everything. I made the obvious difference files. All the files for the different points of reference including originals are there. Prove it to yourself.
One more aside:
You can't instantaneously A/B audio samples at different sample rates without setting up 2 hardware systems. On a single audio system, it would take a moment to switch the hardware. Point being that it really helps to have instant switching to hear something subtle.
The next best thing is to take the file that was downsampled (or a lower sample rate to start) and upsample it to 96k. Now you can instantly A/B between it and the original with no clock change.
Spoiler: You still don't even hear this even though you 1. just made it twice as bad and 2. now you can even instantly A/B between them and REALLY listen for stuff
My conclusions:
I hear nothing from the sample rate only (for reference) difference file. Not without deadly volume increases anyway. I see a little movement on the meters though.
lossless vs. dts 24/96 fully decoded
I don't believe I hear anything A/Bing the files. The difference file has some audible stuff from the cymbals though.
dts 24/96 fully decoded vs. dts 24/96 only 24/48 decoded
I can hear this A/Bing if I'm paying attention. Not night and day or anything. I'm hearing the entire mix in the difference file. Quieter but fully audible.
The lesser 24/48 decode of this is FAR FAR more damaging than a 96k to 48k sample rate conversion.
The lesser 24/48 decode is also FAR FAR more damaging than dts 24/96 is vs. lossless.
If you're hearing something wrong from dts 24/96, then you're hearing the lesser decode.
And if you're hearing anything besides your ears ringing after the piercing high end on the brick wall limited Aqualung release - which is shockingly unlike any other Steve Wilson produced recording I've ever heard - you're doing better than me! This overshadows every last thing mentioned above.
The point?
You may only be a more accurate decoder away from enjoying DTS 24/96 releases. Which still will not help the Aqualung box set! (For the record, the flat stereo transfers are the real thing at least.)
The dts 24/96 format is often criticized for poor sound due to its lossy nature.
The ringer is the dts 24/48 decode. The dts 24/96 format is apparently obscure enough that some decoder apps, media player apps, and hardware disc players only see it as 24/48. There is no reason to be critiquing the core dts 16/48 "legacy" decode right now - it is what it is - so ignoring that here.
Digital files that are identical (same ones and zeros) will sound exactly the same. If you think you hear something different, it's either your perception playing tricks or equipment malfunction.
When you subtract an exact copy of a digital file from itself; just like 1-1=0, the result is all zeros which is perfect silence. The more signal you hear and see in the result of that subtraction, the more different the files are.
There are five 8 second files in the quick sample folder:
loud_sample_LPCM = the lossless master for reference
loud_sample_DTS2496 = the DTS24/96 fully decoded for reference
loud_sample_LPCM-DTS2496 = difference from lossless LPCM and DTS24/96 fully decoded
loud_sample_DTS2496-DTS2448(src96k) = difference from DTS24/96 fully decoded and a lesser DTS24/48 decode
loud_sample_LPCM-LPCM(src48ksrc96k) = difference from a sample rate conversion only on the same source (for reference and sanity check)
The stereo versions are just the front L,R channels of the 5.1 files. Odd to hear isolated but plenty sufficient to quickly hear what's going on.
You can even clearly hear the artifacts (or lack thereof) after converting these sample files to mp3.
Download here -> https://copy.com/DIR8FXWdBhKcXboO
Note the quick folder for short attention spans.
Long version:
There are two 8 second samples from a song.
Then a number of different null (difference) tests run between lossless master and the different dts decodes of them them.
You can knock yourself out comparing everything. I made the obvious difference files. All the files for the different points of reference including originals are there. Prove it to yourself.
One more aside:
You can't instantaneously A/B audio samples at different sample rates without setting up 2 hardware systems. On a single audio system, it would take a moment to switch the hardware. Point being that it really helps to have instant switching to hear something subtle.
The next best thing is to take the file that was downsampled (or a lower sample rate to start) and upsample it to 96k. Now you can instantly A/B between it and the original with no clock change.
Spoiler: You still don't even hear this even though you 1. just made it twice as bad and 2. now you can even instantly A/B between them and REALLY listen for stuff
My conclusions:
I hear nothing from the sample rate only (for reference) difference file. Not without deadly volume increases anyway. I see a little movement on the meters though.
lossless vs. dts 24/96 fully decoded
I don't believe I hear anything A/Bing the files. The difference file has some audible stuff from the cymbals though.
dts 24/96 fully decoded vs. dts 24/96 only 24/48 decoded
I can hear this A/Bing if I'm paying attention. Not night and day or anything. I'm hearing the entire mix in the difference file. Quieter but fully audible.
The lesser 24/48 decode of this is FAR FAR more damaging than a 96k to 48k sample rate conversion.
The lesser 24/48 decode is also FAR FAR more damaging than dts 24/96 is vs. lossless.
If you're hearing something wrong from dts 24/96, then you're hearing the lesser decode.
And if you're hearing anything besides your ears ringing after the piercing high end on the brick wall limited Aqualung release - which is shockingly unlike any other Steve Wilson produced recording I've ever heard - you're doing better than me! This overshadows every last thing mentioned above.
The point?
You may only be a more accurate decoder away from enjoying DTS 24/96 releases. Which still will not help the Aqualung box set! (For the record, the flat stereo transfers are the real thing at least.)