"Tuning" the SQD-2010

[radioheadrox]

Hey guys,

I know many of you dismiss the Sony SQD-2010 as not worth any efforts in terms of decoding SQ, but I'm afraid that I cannot afford anything better!

Anywho, I've been using this unit for about 10 months and I absolutely love the meters and the switching capabilities. This is my first logic decoder, so I have nothing to compare it to, except non-logic decoders.

It decodes SQ channel ID test tones perfectly, so I know the logic circuits are working somewhat. However, with more than one or two sounds it seems that the logic 'gives up' and what results is barely distinguishable from non-logic in a side-by-side test. After reading this forum, I hear reports of the logic working like mad and pumping away in these units. I have never heard my unit pump (maybe not a bad thing!), except when playing stereo LPs. Maybe I shouldn't complain, but is this normal? Can any of you other SQD 2010/2020 owners chime in?

Are there any pots/adjusters inside to 'calibrate' this unit?

 

[sspsandy]

I can't say anything about the 2010 since I haven't heard one, but can give some tips concerning similar decoders. The 1st Marantz quad decoder module was the SQA-1 which is half logic. It gives a nice sense of 3D space, but the most separation is front l&r, as you get to front to back you can distinguish different sounds, but they bleed back into the fronts. The rear l&r has very little separation, but if you sit in the sweet spot it gives a feeling of quad. I had a full logic Pioneer QL 600A decoder, it had sharper separation, but definately had pumping on certain quad recordings, the steering logic was very slow. On Nektar's Remember The Future SQ lp the vocals would jump back and forth from front to rear during the title song, like it couldn't decide where to place them. It didn't really bother me much, since the RM mode was great for synthesizing stereo. The 2010 is supposed to be a pretty decent decoder, check out what Tab's website says about it. Keep in mind that the passthrough solder joints on these Sony's decoder boards go bad, so if you can get them touched up it will improve the performance noticeably.

 

[KevinD9052]

I have a 2010. There are adjustment pots inside but don't touch them. Your unit decodes the test signals well, so there is nothing wrong with it. Your description of its decoding ability (or disability) is the best description I have read for these units. The logic just gives up and degenerates to 3-7 dbs of separation when there are more than 2 channels of sound. I experienced the same lack of awe 30 years ago when I bought mine new. And I played with the pots thinking it could only help. It made things worse by killing the little separation it has. So, I reset them. Basically, this is all that decoder can do. Annoying as it is. It looks like it should do much more. If you can't afford a Tate, keep an eye out for a Lafayette SQ-W on Ebay. That is the best full logic decoder ever made. It sounds great! Going to cost you $300 or more but worth it. If you absolutely can't swing that, then look for a Lafayette SQ-L. It is a nifty half logic unit housed in a plain-jane case. It is a much better decoder than the 2010. Separation doesn't collapse as quickly with complex arrangements. Like the Sony, it has a nice warm sound with little or no pumping. You can probably pick one up for $30-50 on Ebay.

 

[Obbop]

Maybe it will providean adequate aural thrill for ye listening pleasure then maybe it won't.

Grab a NuReality 2 channel SRS processor off eBay. They usually sell pretty cheap... $20 bux or less.

Feed it an input then send its output into your decoder.

I revel in the effects produced when that set-up is done with my Vario-Matrix decoder.

Didn't try it with the SQA-2030 I just auctioned off on eBay but perhaps it will assist ye in obtaining affordable surround sound nirvana.

 

[Q-Eight]

I can vouch for the SQ-L. It's not a bad "basic" decoder. It sure beats the pants off the onboard decoder in my Pioneer 9900 though. It gives great front to back seperation but there's almost no noticable left/right seperation.

Most recordings I have, you can't hear it do anything, but there are a few tha simply amaze me. Most notable is David Essex's "Turn me Loose". I burned a high-bitrate mp3 to CD, and run that through the SQ-L and it sounds amazing! If it didn't have that slight amount of channel bleed-over, I'd swear I was playing my David Essex Q8.

Once my SQ-W shows up (Which By the way, don't always run up past $300, I got mine for $83 and the one before that went for $150) I'm going to do a comparison test and I'll probably be parting with my SQ-L. From what I've heard, the SQ-W should murder the SQ-L, but we'll see!!

 

[raggal62]

Q-EIGHT - When you get your Lafayette, try playing some QS or RM encoded lp's through the composer settings. Great surround soundfield. I use my SQ-W for those recordings and my Tate II for SQ encoded material.

I can vouch for the SQ-L. It's not a bad "basic" decoder. It sure beats the pants off the onboard decoder in my Pioneer 9900 though. It gives great front to back seperation but there's almost no noticable left/right seperation.

Most recordings I have, you can't hear it do anything, but there are a few tha simply amaze me. Most notable is David Essex's "Turn me Loose". I burned a high-bitrate mp3 to CD, and run that through the SQ-L and it sounds amazing! If it didn't have that slight amount of channel bleed-over, I'd swear I was playing my David Essex Q8.

Once my SQ-W shows up (Which By the way, don't always run up past $300, I got mine for $83 and the one before that went for $150) I'm going to do a comparison test and I'll probably be parting with my SQ-L. From what I've heard, the SQ-W should murder the SQ-L, but we'll see!!

 

[Q-Eight]

Q-EIGHT - When you get your Lafayette, try playing some QS or RM encoded lp's through the composer settings. Great surround soundfield. I use my SQ-W for those recordings and my Tate II for SQ encoded material.

At this time, I don't have any QS/RM stuff, but I have lots of stereo stuff that sounds AWESOME on the "A" setting. Not really sure what the "B" setting is for, all it seems to do is mute the rears by 50%. It sometimes tries to pull the vocals out, but never seems to do a very good job. One of these days, I hope to trip over a Tate, but until then I guess the SQ-W will be my decoder of choice.

 

[KevinD9052]

At this time, I don't have any QS/RM stuff, but I have lots of stereo stuff that sounds AWESOME on the "A" setting. Not really sure what the "B" setting is for, all it seems to do is mute the rears by 50%. It sometimes tries to pull the vocals out, but never seems to do a very good job. One of these days, I hope to trip over a Tate, but until then I guess the SQ-W will be my decoder of choice.[/QUOTE

The SQ-M was Lafayette's "basic" decoder. I bought one in '71 (I think) and provided piss poor SQ separation. But the Composer was great. From what I remember, the Composer B setting was akin to the Sansui Hall setting focusing the sound up front. It was intended for classical music listeners who wanted to keep the orchestra up front on stage with only hall ambiance in the rear. I rarely used the B setting. Compared to the Sansui Hall, it was rather flat and dead sounding. But Composer A is very good synthesizing stereo and does a good job decoding QS. Only VM and the Tate does a better job in my opinion.
The SQ-L came out later ('72?) and provided front-back logic. IMHO it remains the best sounding partial logic SQ decoder produced. Upon reflection, I think it did narrow the sound stage a bit compared to the SQ-W but not terribly so.
The SQ-W came out in '73 and added full wave matching, variable blend logic. It likewise is the best of the full logic SQ decoders in my opinion. It will knock your socks off!

 

[Q-Eight]

The SQ-W came out in '73 and added full wave matching, variable blend logic. It likewise is the best of the full logic SQ decoders in my opinion. It will knock your socks off!

Now you're getting me all wound up! I just sent my money order out on friday. I want my SQ-W here NOW!!!! hehehe

 

[KevinD9052]

It is a great decoder! Hope yours arrives in good working order. After the Tates, when it comes to SQ it is the only one that really hits you over the head-this is 4 channel! It is not as discrete as the Tates but it comes damned close. It isn't perfect but at any point in time, it provides very good to excellent separation with minimal pumping or image shift. It is the only full logic decoder that delivered on the marketing promises. The rest were a waste of my money. Let me know how yours sounds when you get it.

 

[KevinD9052]

Now you're getting me all wound up! I just sent my money order out on friday. I want my SQ-W here NOW!!!! hehehe

So what happened? Did you get your SQ-W? Intact and working? How's it sound?

 

[Q-Eight]

So what happened? Did you get your SQ-W? Intact and working? How's it sound?

Well, to be completely honest, I wonder if it's working properly. While my collection of SQ vinyl is pretty limited, trying a few LP's out.... once again, I am unimpressed with SQ. I find that the SQ-W does better with NON-SQ encoded material! It does some awesome things with stereo CDs', but I found better effects with the SQ-L I have.

I don't have an SQ test LP either, so I really have no way of checking to see if it's working or not.

 

[jsrstereo]

Do the logic circuits of the SQ-L and the SQ-W operate in the Composer settings of these decoders, nor only when they're set to the SQ setting?

thanks from John

 

[surteess]

I have SQD-2000, 2010 & 2020 - they are all good little units (when correctly calibrated).

The main differences are -

SQD-2000 - total discrete components mounted on 2 A4 size single-sided pcbs (mounted one above the other)

SQD-2010 - custom ICs mounted on 1 A4 single-sided pcb

SQD-2020 - total discrete components mounted on 1 A4 double-sided pcb (riveted to join tracks from one side to the other)


SQD-2010 is in my opinion the best option (provided it is setup - leave the pots alone!!) it must have also been the most expensive to design, using the custom ICs - I have yet to find any information on the ICs. This unit does not normally "pump" like the other discrete units.

I have service manuals for all 3 + about 40 other quad manuals from Sony/JVC/Technics etc

The only things I am still searching for is a copy of service manual for my Sony SQE-2000 (SQ encoder) & ST-5555 (Tuner)

Here is my setup - I also have a very understanding lady also living in the house!!!

System 1 – mix of Sony & JVC & Toshiba & Eversonic

VT-700 (Tuner)
SEA-V7E (Equalizer)
SQD-2000 (Decoder)
4VN-880 (Amp)
KD-10 (Cassette)
HR-40 (4-Channel Headphones)
Eversonic (4 off) 50W 5-way


System 2 – mix of Sony & JVC & Philips

VT-700 (Tuner)
SEA-V7E (Equalizer) - front
SQD-2010 (Decoder)
SEA-V7E (Equalizer) - rear
4VN-880 (Amp)
5911 (4-Channel Remote)
5944 (4-Channel Headphones)
733K (CD)


System 3 – Sony & Technics & Magnat

ST-5150 (Tuner)
TA-1150 (Amp) – front
SQD-2020 (Decoder)
TA-1150 (Amp) – rear
D-5A (CD)
EAH-400 (4-Channel Headphones)
Magnat-6 Speakers (4 off) 160W 3-way

System 4 – PC system, to transfer LPs to CD

PC with sound blaster Live 5.1
Sound Forge software
Sound Laundry software
SL-10 (Turntable)
Terratec Phono Pre-Amp Studio


I also have the following other pieces in my collection.

Cosrad HS 4000 4-Channel Headphones
Hafler 101A Preamp
KD-10 Cassette – used for spare parts
JVC ECA-102 4-Channel Reverb.
Marantz ST-400 Tuner (modified by myself to include AM Stereo PCB)
Pioneer QD-240 CD-4 Demodulator
Quad 405mkII Amp
Sony SQA-100 Decoder (3)
Sony SQA-200 Decoder
Sony SQA-2030 Decoder
Sony SQD-1000 Decoder (2)
Sony SQD-2020 Decoder
Sony SQD-2050 Decoder (2)
Sony SQD-2070 Decoder
Sony SQE-2000 Encoder
Sony ST-80F Tuner (3)
Sony ST-88 Tuner (2)
Sony ST-2950 Tuner
Sony ST-5555 Tuner
Sony TA-88 Amp (3)
Sony TA-1055 Amp (3)
Sony TAH-10 Headphone adapter
Technics SH-400 CD-4 Demodulator
Technics SH-3433 Scope

Plus Service manuals for most of the above.

Plus approx 500 Quad LPs & about 50 Quad cds

 

[krkier]

I have yet to find any information on the ICs. This unit does not normally "pump" like the other discrete units.

Which ICs are inside your unit?

These ones?

http://www.datasheetarchive.com/pdf-datasheets/Datasheets-110/DSAP0010063.html

-Kristian

 

[surteess]

No Sony had their own custom ICs will check the p/n in the service manual - the Motorola 1312 / 1314 / 1315 I have a few here at home, also on a mock-up pcb as a home built decoder that I build in the late 70s.

 

[surteess]

I have been using PADS sch/pcb software for over 20 years - thought I would share these with you -

NOTE that there are only 3 ICs in the original PDF (attached earlier) - I have drawn each 3 different ways - depending on how you want to configure you schematic.

The Zip file contains the TXT extension - it is the PADS Logic 2005 ASCII import format

 

[Disclord]

For the SQD-2010 the IC's are: Sony CX-050 which is the SQ matrix IC and like the Motorola version uses outboard resistors/capacitors to effect the actual phase shifts. It's a 3-pole phase shift design. The VCA IC is the CX-718 and the Wavematching and F/B logic IC is the CX-049. Another CX-718 is used between the matrix IC and the Logic IC as an AGC to keep the input levels high enough for the logic to detect the directionality properly.

 

[surroundme33]

I would still would like the answer to the original question. How do you properly tune an SQ 2010?? I have won one today, and will probably need to know how one can properly calibrate this unit. This thread was NOT originally about the SQ-W .. Someone please provide a proper answer.

 

[surteess]

Do you have a test record available, if not then maybe someone here could "lent" surroundme33 with one - or a CD copy?
This way at least you could see if the channel seperation & amplitude are correct.......you may be lucky & find out that nothing needs altering.