DVD/DTS Poll Wilson, Steven - The Raven That Refused To Sing [DTS DVD]

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Rate the DTS DVD of Steven Wilson - THE RAVEN THAT REFUSED TO SING

  • 8

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  • 1 Bad Mix, Bad Sonics, Bad Content

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  • Total voters
    23
I like to think of it as intricate and layered, powerful and dynamic rather than frantic (!).. but each to their own as you say and I respect your opinion (y)

I totally respect ( you ) and your opinion, Adam.....it just feels a little too diverse to me.... I like songs to go in another direction, but not something that doesn't fit with what's gone before. For instance, you know my favourite band is Toto, and imo, are masters at this. Listen to something like " Better World Parts I II & III from the Minfields album....the three segments compliment one another, even though they're different, but it still feels like the same song, and doesn't come across as disjointed. I love atmospheric layers in music. ( that's why I love Toto so much !! :D )
 
An old friend, was / is a big Yes fan, and tried to get me into their music...I do like " Owner Of A lonely Heart ", e.t.c.

Just listened to a bit of " Thick As A Brick ", and stopped after 3 - 4 minutes....the same word comes to mind everytime ! ( Where Prog Rock groups are concerned !! ) FRANTIC !!! Where's the melody ??? Songs that stand the test of time, have that most important element !!
For anyone that likes this kind of music then that's great for them ( we all have our tastes, in everything ) but it's not for me !

( " Play that funky flute white boy " )

Yes happens to be my favorite band- since the 70s- so take that into account in my comments. I completely understand how the "frantic" aspect you describe isn't everyone's cup of tea; obviously I enjoy the complex instrumental (and vocal) inter-play and layering of sounds. But this is definitely too much for many... What I don't understand is your comment re: lack of melody. IMO Yes music is full of melody- in fact, much more melodic than the majority of rock music. Rock is mostly blues-based and mainly riff-oriented; Steve Howe vigorously rejected this boundary and brought more melody into the rock idiom (though he could still riff w/ the best of them)- his heroes were Chet Atkins and Wes Montgomery. Chris Squire is one of the most melodic bass players in rock- John Entwistle was his hero. And Rick Wakeman can weave some pretty melodic magic as well. And those 3 part vocal harmonies, led by the lynchpin of the group, Jon Anderson, were incredibly melodic- sometimes hauntingly so.

Prog was, at least as defined in hindsight, a combination of rock with other musical forms- classical and jazz esp., but anything was fair game. And in my mind, the jazz and classical influences made melody more important than it was in rock; it was the development, restatement and interplay of melodies that became the basis for many prog epics. However, the interplay itself made for such dense music that often-times the melodies are not readily apparent, but I can assure you they are there. Once one starts to become familiar with the music, the melodies become more obvious- then, as familiarity increases, the inter-play of the melodies adds depth and power to the music.

But one of the problems with this kind of music is that it takes a bit more effort from the listener. They are not bouncy melodies that grab you, for the most part. It requires more concentration and often repeated listenings- a lot to ask for esp. when you are dealing w/ 10-20 min. songs. I'm not suggesting that if you (or anyone) just put in the effort they'd love this music like I do, but I do think that some might. I also think that the extra demands made on listeners was a one of the (many) reasons prog's heyday was short-lived. Personally, I really enjoy the fact that I can listen to a song I've heard 100s of times and have so many different things to focus on that the experience is so different every time. I think this complexity adds to the music's replayability.

As for Tull, I find Ian Anderson's flute playing incredibly melodic. Though he denies that Tull is a progressive rock band and that is a topic for debate (I would vote yes, even though they definitely began as a blues-based band). But again, I hear plenty of melody in Tull's music. I hope you've heard more of them than just TAAB. But maybe we just have differing ideas as to what constitutes melody.

Just MHO. And BTW, there are plenty of prog classics that have well-weathered the tests of time.
 
Yes happens to be my favorite band- since the 70s- so take that into account in my comments. I completely understand how the "frantic" aspect you describe isn't everyone's cup of tea; obviously I enjoy the complex instrumental (and vocal) inter-play and layering of sounds. But this is definitely too much for many... What I don't understand is your comment re: lack of melody. IMO Yes music is full of melody- in fact, much more melodic than the majority of rock music. Rock is mostly blues-based and mainly riff-oriented; Steve Howe vigorously rejected this boundary and brought more melody into the rock idiom (though he could still riff w/ the best of them)- his heroes were Chet Atkins and Wes Montgomery. Chris Squire is one of the most melodic bass players in rock- John Entwistle was his hero. And Rick Wakeman can weave some pretty melodic magic as well. And those 3 part vocal harmonies, led by the lynchpin of the group, Jon Anderson, were incredibly melodic- sometimes hauntingly so.

Prog was, at least as defined in hindsight, a combination of rock with other musical forms- classical and jazz esp., but anything was fair game. And in my mind, the jazz and classical influences made melody more important than it was in rock; it was the development, restatement and interplay of melodies that became the basis for many prog epics. However, the interplay itself made for such dense music that often-times the melodies are not readily apparent, but I can assure you they are there. Once one starts to become familiar with the music, the melodies become more obvious- then, as familiarity increases, the inter-play of the melodies adds depth and power to the music.

But one of the problems with this kind of music is that it takes a bit more effort from the listener. They are not bouncy melodies that grab you, for the most part. It requires more concentration and often repeated listenings- a lot to ask for esp. when you are dealing w/ 10-20 min. songs. I'm not suggesting that if you (or anyone) just put in the effort they'd love this music like I do, but I do think that some might. I also think that the extra demands made on listeners was a one of the (many) reasons prog's heyday was short-lived. Personally, I really enjoy the fact that I can listen to a song I've heard 100s of times and have so many different things to focus on that the experience is so different every time. I think this complexity adds to the music's replayability.

As for Tull, I find Ian Anderson's flute playing incredibly melodic. Though he denies that Tull is a progressive rock band and that is a topic for debate (I would vote yes, even though they definitely began as a blues-based band). But again, I hear plenty of melody in Tull's music. I hope you've heard more of them than just TAAB. But maybe we just have differing ideas as to what constitutes melody.

Just MHO. And BTW, there are plenty of prog classics that have well-weathered the tests of time.

I appreciate your points of view, and respect your love of the genre. I guess it's a little unfair to say there's no melody...when there clearly is, and in all fairness I haven't given Prog Rock a fair crack of the whip.
I love layers in music, songs going in different directions, it's when it becomes a little too diverse, that I lose interest. As I said the " frantic " aspect doesn't appeal to me. If we all liked the same things it would be a boring world !!
I purchased Steven Wilson's " The Raven That Refused To Sing " ( and other stories ) and found a lot of enjoyment in it...but also frustrating dislikes....but I can find that in any music ! ( I don't think it's out and out classical Prog Rock, though. )
 
An old friend, was / is a big Yes fan, and tried to get me into their music...I do like " Owner Of A lonely Heart ", e.t.c.

Just listened to a bit of " Thick As A Brick ", and stopped after 3 - 4 minutes....the same word comes to mind everytime ! ( Where Prog Rock groups are concerned !! ) FRANTIC !!! Where's the melody ??? Songs that stand the test of time, have that most important element !!
For anyone that likes this kind of music then that's great for them ( we all have our tastes, in everything ) but it's not for me !

( " Play that funky flute white boy " )

I do not agree with you, respectufully.
The first sounds of TAAB are WONDERFUL sticky melodies...
"Really don't mind if you sit this one out,
words but a whisper deafness , SHOUT!!"
and the flute (sorry, I do not have a way of posting the music notation in here) is one of the most simple yet effective melodies, and also the main melodic theme of the album.
There are PLENTY of melodies in this album (not so as in "A Passion Play" though), also try
"Songs from the Wood", which to me is my favorite JT LP.

Maybe you just don't like Ian or his style or whatever, but TAAB is chockful of melody (not so TAAB 2, though)

Now, the problem about "where's the melody" happens to me with Porcupine Tree (I'm open to suggestions, anything form any of their surround LPs-except "Deadwing, which is the only one I don't have).

TRTRTS is more melodic than normal PT LPs , maybe I need to listen to it a few more times for something to stick to my Teflon coated brain...
 
It could be what Dixie4 finds is missing from prog is not so much melody, as 'hooks' -- short musical or lyrical phrases that stand out and stick in the ear after just a listen or two. I'd say these too are present in prog, but there's often so much 'frantic' going on around them that maybe they don't stand out as much as in other pop music.
 
It could be what Dixie4 finds is missing from prog is not so much melody, as 'hooks' -- short musical or lyrical phrases that stand out and stick in the ear after just a listen or two. I'd say these too are present in prog, but there's often so much 'frantic' going on around them that maybe they don't stand out as much as in other pop music.

I have started a review of the Blu Ray version ( on that thread )....whether i'll ever finish it, is another matter !! ( I've enjoyed the disc though. ) As I've said previously, I'd edit parts, but i'd probably feel like that about any Prog Rock ?
I don't think " Raven " is out and out Prog, especially with a song like " Drive Home ". ( which I love ! )
 
I have started a review of the Blu Ray version ( on that thread )....whether i'll ever finish it, is another matter !! ( I've enjoyed the disc though. ) As I've said previously, I'd edit parts, but i'd probably feel like that about any Prog Rock ?
I don't think " Raven " is out and out Prog, especially with a song like " Drive Home ". ( which I love ! )


Believe me, it's out an out prog. Prog albums have nearly always had some tracks/sections that are less 'frantic' and more 'melodic' than others.
 
I have started a review of the Blu Ray version ( on that thread )....whether i'll ever finish it, is another matter !! ( I've enjoyed the disc though. ) As I've said previously, I'd edit parts, but i'd probably feel like that about any Prog Rock ?
I don't think " Raven " is out and out Prog, especially with a song like " Drive Home ". ( which I love ! )

If I may suggest, perhaps not thinking in terms of labels; they have a way of interfering with open minds. It seems what you don't like is music w/ "frantic passages" (not completely sure what you mean, but if it's what I imagine, those would be some of my favorite passages- but generally preceded by contrasting "unfrantic" passages that set the stage for the franticness). These types of passages are not confined to Prog. I'd just say that you don't like those songs. It seems you do like some Prog, since you like some of this album. Forget about what kind of music it may or may not be and just enjoy what you can. One thing to keep in mind is why the artist may have chosen to employ those sounds- or how do they make you feel? For example, what may be deemed unenjoyable is a passage that is dark, deep and frantic because it makes you feel uncomfortable; perhaps the artist wanted you to feel uncomfortable for some reason, e.g to express some dilemma. How is this feeling resolved in the song? Could help towards understanding the artist's intent. Music isn't always about bringing us up- though perhaps some people prefer that type of music; at it's core, music is about expression, so all shades of emotions are included. Which shades, how well they're expressed and our connection with that expression defines how much we like a certain piece.

I'm glad you're enjoying the album; SW is one of my favorite current musicians- as much for his work in 5.1 mixing as for his own music. I hope you continue to enjoy it and maybe even come to enjoy some of those songs you currently don't. I know that I didn't like some of my all-time favorite albums at first; I think some of the best music takes a little exposure and experience to appreciate- but then when it clicks, it tends to stick longer. Regardless, it's great that you took a chance and tried something outside your usual tastes and have found some enjoyment.

Believe me, it's out an out prog. Prog albums have nearly always had some tracks/sections that are less 'frantic' and more 'melodic' than others.

In my reply I thought about referencing some of those songs (e.g. Turn of the Century), but decided against it due to the unlikelihood of him being familiar with them. I agree with your previous posts re: hooks, as they are much less apparent in Prog. We both know that Prog requires more from the listener (not trying to be elitist here), but there are depths worth plumbing. Of course sometimes it's nice to have those hooks reach out and grab you and just rock out.
 
I have started a review of the Blu Ray version ( on that thread )....whether i'll ever finish it, is another matter !! ( I've enjoyed the disc though. ) As I've said previously, I'd edit parts, but i'd probably feel like that about any Prog Rock ?
I don't think " Raven " is out and out Prog, especially with a song like " Drive Home ". ( which I love ! )

Each unto their own - I say..

The great thing about music is that its interpreted differently by everyone. I suppose because we are all different.
 
If I may suggest, perhaps not thinking in terms of labels; they have a way of interfering with open minds. It seems what you don't like is music w/ "frantic passages" (not completely sure what you mean, but if it's what I imagine, those would be some of my favorite passages- but generally preceded by contrasting "unfrantic" passages that set the stage for the franticness). These types of passages are not confined to Prog. I'd just say that you don't like those songs. It seems you do like some Prog, since you like some of this album. Forget about what kind of music it may or may not be and just enjoy what you can. One thing to keep in mind is why the artist may have chosen to employ those sounds- or how do they make you feel? For example, what may be deemed unenjoyable is a passage that is dark, deep and frantic because it makes you feel uncomfortable; perhaps the artist wanted you to feel uncomfortable for some reason, e.g to express some dilemma. How is this feeling resolved in the song? Could help towards understanding the artist's intent. Music isn't always about bringing us up- though perhaps some people prefer that type of music; at it's core, music is about expression, so all shades of emotions are included. Which shades, how well they're expressed and our connection with that expression defines how much we like a certain piece.

I'm glad you're enjoying the album; SW is one of my favorite current musicians- as much for his work in 5.1 mixing as for his own music. I hope you continue to enjoy it and maybe even come to enjoy some of those songs you currently don't. I know that I didn't like some of my all-time favorite albums at first; I think some of the best music takes a little exposure and experience to appreciate- but then when it clicks, it tends to stick longer. Regardless, it's great that you took a chance and tried something outside your usual tastes and have found some enjoyment.



In my reply I thought about referencing some of those songs (e.g. Turn of the Century), but decided against it due to the unlikelihood of him being familiar with them. I agree with your previous posts re: hooks, as they are much less apparent in Prog. We both know that Prog requires more from the listener (not trying to be elitist here), but there are depths worth plumbing. Of course sometimes it's nice to have those hooks reach out and grab you and just rock out.

With all due respect, ( and i know from your point of view, you are just trying to give an explanation of Prog Rock ) I find your first paragraph to be a little patronizing ( although, i'm sure that's not intended )
If I wasn't open minded ( to any music ! ) then I wouldn't have bought this. I like many different genre's of music, ( been collecting music for 40 years + ) and although i'm not a collector of Prog Rock, doesn't mean to say I don't know what it's about, or understand it.
I'm well aware of light & shade, layers in music, ( For instance, Toto are my favourite band, they incorporate all these aspects in their music, but they're definitely not Prog Rock. ) these are elements in music that I like & look for most off all, but by " frantic ", I mean playing musical passages at a " hundred miles an hour ". It's just not for me. I feel the same way about Heavy Metal music....as Lizard King says, we're all different....and that applies to everything in life, of course.
I still stand by my point that songs like " Drive Home " & " The Raven That Refused To Sing " to me are not Prog Rock, or certainly not typical Prog Rock. You could take the main parts of all the songs actually, take away the Prog elements, for instance the intro to " The Holy Drinker ", or ending segment of " The Watchmaker " and they'd be better songs in my opinion. For me there's just too much going on, that's not needed.
 
With all due respect, ( and i know from your point of view, you are just trying to give an explanation of Prog Rock ) I find your first paragraph to be a little patronizing ( although, i'm sure that's not intended )
If I wasn't open minded ( to any music ! ) then I wouldn't have bought this. I like many different genre's of music, ( been collecting music for 40 years + ) and although i'm not a collector of Prog Rock, doesn't mean to say I don't know what it's about, or understand it.
I'm well aware of light & shade, layers in music, ( For instance, Toto are my favourite band, they incorporate all these aspects in their music, but they're definitely not Prog Rock. ) these are elements in music that I like & look for most off all, but by " frantic ", I mean playing musical passages at a " hundred miles an hour ". It's just not for me. I feel the same way about Heavy Metal music....as Lizard King says, we're all different....and that applies to everything in life, of course.
I still stand by my point that songs like " Drive Home " & " The Raven That Refused To Sing " to me are not Prog Rock, or certainly not typical Prog Rock. You could take the main parts of all the songs actually, take away the Prog elements, for instance the intro to " The Holy Drinker ", or ending segment of " The Watchmaker " and they'd be better songs in my opinion. For me there's just too much going on, that's not needed.

I can see how that could come off as patronizing; I had some doubts about it when I wrote it. I was primarily trying to express the pernicious effects of putting music into genres that has, for me at least, colored my reception of some music, e.g. I had a total dislike of anything Pop as a teen and young man, so I tended to avoid bands that were highly popular in my teens, such that I neglected bands like Steely Dan, which once I gave a chance became one of my faves. I was definitely an elitist when younger, but have since learned the error of my ways (at least in this instance, hopefully). I like to think I have an open mind, but I know that labels still have negative effects on my perceptions; expectations can be very powerful. The bits about frantic passages was my attempt to explain their raison d'etre, but poorly expressed and much too pedagogical. I didn't mean to imply that you aren't open-minded, indeed I later acknowledged your open-mindedness in buying this in the 1st place.

As for playing at 100 mph, some of my fave passages fall in that category, but that can easily be overdone- but what constitutes being overdone is also in the eye of the beholder, of course. Chris Squire (bassist for Yes) once stated that Mahavishnu Orchestra, who's music was full of these type of passages, helped kill Prog. Whatever, music appreciation is definitely very subjective and whatever turns your crank is all good. I don't particularly care for Heavy Metal much either, but then that label may have caused me to miss out on some music that I would have really enjoyed. Some claim Zeppelin as the originators of the genre; I'm not sure about that, but I certainly love LZ. And I enjoy some Metal when experienced other ways, e.g. in a movie soundtrack.

As for Toto, def not Prog. I never got into them, but then they were popular back when my pop prejudices were in full bloom, so who knows what an open-minded listen of them would have wrought. I woulda guessed MJ was your fave, going by your avatar- another victim of my pop prejudice, but one partially redeemed by watching, then purchasing and fully enjoying This Is It. Some fantastic grooves that I had missed- and what a performer! He is as good a dancer as he is a singer. Still, I just have that BR and the subsequently acquired Thriller. I still don't put him in the same league as my musical heroes, but definitely a creator of some great music.

As for "typical Prog Rock," that's one of those unhelpful categorizations, imho. One of the nice things about Prog is its variety, so there's not a lot that's typical, though there are certainly common attributes. But as Steven said, there are many slower, softer songs/passages in Prog. Some albums include very tasteful guitar solos- ever heard "Mood for a Day?" Other songs are devoid of any frantic passages and have melodies that are much more apparent and accessible. I think Prog describes an attitude as much as a musical style: an attitude of doing something different, of combining elements that are common, but not commonly found together; a desire to push the boundaries; and an attempt to use musical expression in novel ways. I disagree that the songs would be better w/o the Prog elements, but again, that is wholly subjective.

I have a tendency to jump to defend Prog when I perceive it being slighted, since it has become so often reviled after it's heyday, and the remnants of my elitist days sometimes show up. When I was young, I definitely thought that Prog was "superior" music and that I was so much more evolved than the "dirty masses" whose tastes tended towards bubble gum. I know I have improved in this regard, though I wonder sometimes how much. The music these kids are listening to these days... :rolleyes:
 
I totally understand you defending the thing you love....i'd defend MJ with my life, certainly where his music is concerned ! The first Toto album I ever bought, was the follow up to Toto IV ( Isolation ) I didn't like it at all, gave it a few listens, still didn't like it....put it on one day, and it suddenly clicked ! ( Wasn't overly keen on the vocalist for that album ) They've been my favourite band ever since.
My views on Prog Rock, obviously aren't based on a lot of listening to that genre, but i'm open to listening to more, when I find the the time. ( I did give " Tale Of The Century " a listen earlier today )
I understand why people ( QQ members ) would say that the genre suits surround music, but I do hope if there's a resurgence in the format, ( which there appears to be. ) that we get other genre's of music released.
 
I totally understand you defending the thing you love....i'd defend MJ with my life, certainly where his music is concerned ! The first Toto album I ever bought, was the follow up to Toto IV ( Isolation ) I didn't like it at all, gave it a few listens, still didn't like it....put it on one day, and it suddenly clicked ! ( Wasn't overly keen on the vocalist for that album ) They've been my favourite band ever since.
My views on Prog Rock, obviously aren't based on a lot of listening to that genre, but i'm open to listening to more, when I find the the time. ( I did give " Tale Of The Century " a listen earlier today )
I understand why people ( QQ members ) would say that the genre suits surround music, but I do hope if there's a resurgence in the format, ( which there appears to be. ) that we get other genre's of music released.

Isn't it great when something that seemed insignificant suddenly clicks. A lot of my fave albums were like that. The much-malignd Tales from Topographic Oceans falls in this category; it took quite a while for that to click. Unfortunately, these days I rarely give new music more than a couple chances; if it doesn't resonate quickly, I lose interest. Part of this is due to old age and having less patience, but part of it is that I already have so much music I love, it's hard to devote time and attention to things that don't click fairly quickly. I'm sure I've missed out on some great music b/c of this, but I'm not gonna lose any sleep over it. When I was younger and my album colletion was closer to single digits than triple digits, it was much easier to spend more time w/ new music. Now, I have many old friends that have been neglected and I'd rather give them a spin than give multiple listens to something that doesn't grab me after a couple auditions.



So you auditioned Turn of the Century? Impressions?

I don't think Prog has been over-represented in MCH releases, except maybe recently, since SW has his roots in Prog and has been the major player in MCH releases lately. If there is a resurgence, I'm sure Prog will not be dominant; just look at the list from Universal's launch. But since Prog is often very "dense" music, i.e. often so much going on, I think it is especially suited to being opened up in a good 5.1 mix. Same for classical, which I believe has been very well represented in MCH releases over the years.
 
On the whole, I normally know if i'm going to like something, after just hearing a few bars, or even just one vocal line. There are those instances as I've said ( and you've said ) when you don't like something & then it suddenly clicks.
I was still bleary eyed ( well i'm like that all the time !! ) when I listened to " Turn Of The Century " ( apologies for getting title wrong ! ) so I need to listen to it again.
Jon Anderson, obviously has a distinct voice, even if you're not a Yes fan, it's easily recognisable. His voice is something I've never really been sure about ? The falsetto style, nothing against falsetto, but whenever I've heard him sing, it always seems in this range, with little variation. It's an acquired vocal, I think people would either love it, or hate it ? ( but as I said I need to listen to more, to form a fair opinion )
 
On the whole, I normally know if i'm going to like something, after just hearing a few bars, or even just one vocal line. There are those instances as I've said ( and you've said ) when you don't like something & then it suddenly clicks.
I was still bleary eyed ( well i'm like that all the time !! ) when I listened to " Turn Of The Century " ( apologies for getting title wrong ! ) so I need to listen to it again.
Jon Anderson, obviously has a distinct voice, even if you're not a Yes fan, it's easily recognisable. His voice is something I've never really been sure about ? The falsetto style, nothing against falsetto, but whenever I've heard him sing, it always seems in this range, with little variation. It's an acquired vocal, I think people would either love it, or hate it ? ( but as I said I need to listen to more, to form a fair opinion )

Yes, his voice is very distinctive and I beileve it is very polarizing. I know a lot of people who've said they never listened to Yes b/c his voice turned them off immediately. For me, it's the voice of an angel. It is not, however, falsetto; that is his normal range- he is a contralto. And he has stated that he uses his voice as an instrument; he often chooses lyrics as much for the sounds of the words as for their meaning. When you say little variation, I assume you mean that he doesn't very from singing in what you thought was falsetto, b/c his range I always consider to be quite broad- although this has decreased over time. Both his range and the melodies of his singing have decreased in the new millenium.

One of the things that first drew me to Yes was the amazing 3 part harmonies; it was actually Anderson and Squire's love of that kind of harmony (e.g. 5th Dimension, Simon and Garfunkel) that was one of the keys to them wanting to start a band together.

On the subject of voices, MJ's register was also quite high. I once read a book where-in the main character was a young singer, who the record co. wanted to castrate (like they used to do back in the middle ages to boy's choirs) so his voice wouldn't change. In the story, a close friend got him laid to show him what he'd be missing and afterwards he punched out the executive who had suggested it! Anyway, I wondered if this story might have been based on MJ. It would explain a lot of his ummm "eccentric" behavior. (No disrespect meant)
 
It is not, however, falsetto; that is his normal range- he is a contralto.

On the subject of voices, MJ's register was also quite high. I once read a book where-in the main character was a young singer, who the record co. wanted to castrate (like they used to do back in the middle ages to boy's choirs) so his voice wouldn't change. In the story, a close friend got him laid to show him what he'd be missing and afterwards he punched out the executive who had suggested it! Anyway, I wondered if this story might have been based on MJ. It would explain a lot of his ummm "eccentric" behavior. (No disrespect meant)

Is contralto a lower register than a falsetto voice ?

MJ's could sing in any range. ( I knew you would bring that up. :D ) His last album " Invincible " showed how his voice was changing, to a lower tone, or he had the ability to do that. Biased opinion, but to me he was THE vocal angel !
Apparently, many people close to him have said that his high pitched speaking voice, was a bit of a put on, and his actual voice was much deeper.....eccentric, yes....naĂŻve about things, yes.....but at the same time, shrewd.....a genius, without a doubt....will there ever be another like him ?....very doubtful !

( Sorry to go off tangent, to the thread ! )
 
Is contralto a lower register than a falsetto voice ?

MJ's could sing in any range. ( I knew you would bring that up. :D ) His last album " Invincible " showed how his voice was changing, to a lower tone, or he had the ability to do that. Biased opinion, but to me he was THE vocal angel !
Apparently, many people close to him have said that his high pitched speaking voice, was a bit of a put on, and his actual voice was much deeper.....eccentric, yes....naĂŻve about things, yes.....but at the same time, shrewd.....a genius, without a doubt....will there ever be another like him ?....very doubtful !

( Sorry to go off tangent, to the thread ! )

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but falsetto is not a register, it is just the description of someone singing in a higher range than their true register; I believe the translation is false voice. Contralto is the highest register for a male voice.

So- you got me figured out already? :eek: MJ was quite the singer, but his musical milieu was not quite where I picture an angel singing; those grooves seemed to come more from the other side. ;) The hippie-inspired Love and Peace arena occupied by JA seems more conducive to angelic visitations (not that MJ didn't have songs in the Love and Peace vein, but he was just visiting a place JA inhabited (at least given my admittedly limited knowledge of MJ's music). But then you weren't really focusing just on lyrical content and/or musical atmospheres, but the artist's abilities to send you to heaven, I would imagine.

I am probably more guilty of going OT; I think I started it. My apologies as well.

So, to get back on topic (cue segue sounds...)

Anyone know what SW's register is? Alto?
 
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but falsetto is not a register, it is just the description of someone singing in a higher range than their true register; I believe the translation is false voice. Contralto is the highest register for a male voice.

MJ was quite the singer, but his musical milieu was not quite where I picture an angel singing; those grooves seemed to come more from the other side. ;)

I didn't think falsetto was a register, was just intrigued to know what contralto was....i'll google it, sometime.

Be careful !!! You'll go to Hell !!! ;);)
 
This "Special Edition" CD/DVD-V is a good compromise for those that not went BluRay but love to have this in surround. The package is great, no box-style overkill, just spot on.
The music is terrific, another step up in the Steven Wilson solo career. What a good band. And yes, there are very melodic parts on this album that I kept humming for days. There is also virtuoso playing (highlight for me the guitar solo ending Drive Home).

BTW I can't believe how a poll thread could derail in a "I bought this but I don't like prog" contest. IMO those OT messages should be split off in a "Prog vs. Michael jackson" thread, probably in the "Music Matters (Non Surround)" forum.
 
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