Amazon Firestick 4K Max for Surround Music

[steelydave]

Good News: No issues with the Firestick 4K Max with Kodi playing Atmos, 7.1 and 192kHz

I changed my FireTV Kodi v21 Beta version from Kodi.Nerds (11 Jan build) to the official Kodi v21 Android nightly (18 Jan) and all my FireTV 4K Max problems are solved 7.1 output, rears on Atmos and LFE all working. No changes to my AVR. We are back in business using a FTV to play all your surround files. (I will do more testing)

I can also confirm Beck - Sea Change 192/24 FLAC 5.1 plays without a glitch: @steelydave

I will update by FireTV Kodi install/pre-configure zip file tomorrow and post here when ready.

That's great news - I don't know if this is too much to ask, but would it be possible to test playback other flavours of 192 (stereo and quad, both of which you could get from any Quadio disc rip) to make sure it works as well?

Am I right in thinking this new version of Kodi supports Dolby Vision? If so, have you tested video playback output of DV-encoded content?

 

[HomerJAU]

Garry, do the official Kodi v21 nightly (18-Jan) builds support 4K video with HDR?

Yes. HDR and Dolby Vision is the big change the Kodi developers have been working on for around 3 years. HDR support is in all v21 builds but requires hardware support. Kodi HDR support was initially released in v20 Matrix but improved in v21.

V21 also supports Dolby Vision but only on devices that have DV decoders (licensed from Dolby and included in the device chipset). This is limited to Android and only a subset, not all Android devices. Amazon Fire TVs support DV (why I bought one).

My two Intel NUC8 play HDR but not DV. I’ve been watching HDR content for about 3 years on my Kodi NUCs

v21 also supports HDR 10+ and HLG (HDR versions). HDR 10+ is an open source dynamic HDR like DV. (Akin to MPEG- H 3D Audio being the open source version of Atmos)

For all HDR variations (HDR 10, HDR 10+, HLG, DV etc) your TV must support that version. Typically manufacturers are either in the DV camp (Sony, LG etc) or HDR 10+ camp (Samsung) but all new 4K TV support HDR. I’m not sure about the other manufacturers but typically OLED TVs are in the DV camp.

Kodi v21 has a new setting to force which version of HDR to output (always HDR if the file has it, but when a file has both versions, do you want DV or HDR 10+)

To play DV your ripped file must include the DV layer (MakeMKV has been doing that since late 2020)

Kodi switches HDR on/off at play start/stop (a good feature).

The FTV displays HDR/DV all the time when using its own apps (bad IMO, I don’t want my TV that bright). When Kodi is used on the FTV everything is displayed non-HDR until you play a video with HDR/DV encoding (good).

Finally, Android players can’t decode the DV version delivered on 4K BDs. Kodi converts BD DV to streaming DV with a slight loss of brightness metadata). I don’t notice it but it’s not true DV like your BD player will output. Currently the only players that can play true DV are 4K BD players. IMO there’s a big improvement watching HDR over SDR, but not much difference going to DV over HDR on my two 4K OLED TVs (77” LG, 55” Sony).

(Edited my first paragraph after initial post)

 

[HomerJAU]

Version 2.0 of the FTV Kodi Install, pre-configuration and QQ Logo skin mod is now uploaded:

Changelog:
Now uses the official Kodi v21 Omega Beta 2 nightly build form 18 Jan - This build solves the earlier 7.1 playback issues I found.
The new Install-1.bat now automatically starts Kodi after its installed and permission auto set.
Removed manual step for User to run Kodi, however users now must now Force Kodi to Stop running before running Install-2.bat (new step)

How to Install Kodi and the QQ Logo skin mod on a Firestick 4K Max (applies to all FTVs):
https://reva.blob.core.windows.net/kodimods/How To - Kodi on FireTV.pdf

Link to the zip file in this doc. Carefully follow the instructions:

------------------------------------------
The new STEP 3C below:

STEP 3C: Force Kodi to stop running.​

There are 3 methods to Force Stop an application:

• FTV’s Settings screen, My Fire TV, Restart
• FTV’s Settings screen, Applications, Manage Installed Apps, find the app (Kodi), then Force Stop
• Just pull the power on your FTV then after 10 seconds or so, plug it back in and allow it to restart.

IMPORTANT:
It is critical you run Kodi at least once on your FTV and then Force the app to Stop before proceeding to next step.
--------------------------------------------------

FOR EXISTING USERS OF MY KODI FTV PREVIOUS INSTALLER FILES ONLY: (copy them into a new batch file)
Unfortunately for anyone that has installed Kodi on the FTV using the earlier Kodi Nerds version (prior to this 2.0 release)

You should back up some Database folder files etc on your FTV if you've made and config changes and loaded music, videos etc into Kodi:

Create a folder in your ADB folder you created (where your zip files where copied) named 'DbBackup'

Run these adb commands:
adb pull /sdcard/kodi_data/org.xbmc.kodi/.kodi/userdata/addon_data/skin.aeon.nox.silvo/settings.xml DbBackup
adb pull /sdcard/kodi_data/org.xbmc.kodi/.kodi/userdata/guisettings.xml DbBackup
adb pull /sdcard/kodi_data/org.xbmc.kodi/.kodi/userdata/Database/Addons33.db DbBackup
adb pull /sdcard/kodi_data/org.xbmc.kodi/.kodi/userdata/Database/ViewModes6.db DbBackup
adb pull /sdcard/kodi_data/org.xbmc.kodi/.kodi/userdata/Database/MyMusic83.db DbBackup
adb pull /sdcard/kodi_data/org.xbmc.kodi/.kodi/userdata/Database/MyVideos128.db DbBackup
adb pull /sdcard/kodi_data/org.xbmc.kodi/.kodi/userdata/Database/Textures13.db DbBackup

On the FTV uninstall Kodi Nerds (Settings, Applications, Manage Installed, find Kodi Nerds, Uninstall

Run the two new batch files (Install-1.bat and Install-2.bat)

The copy your backed up Databases back to the FTV:
adb push DbBackup/settings.xml /sdcard/kodi_data/org.xbmc.kodi/.kodi/userdata/addon_data/skin.aeon.nox.silvo
adb push DbBackup/guisettings.xml /sdcard/kodi_data/org.xbmc.kodi/.kodi/userdata
adb push DbBackup/Addons33.db /sdcard/kodi_data/org.xbmc.kodi/.kodi/userdata/Database
adb push DbBackup/ViewModes6.db /sdcard/kodi_data/org.xbmc.kodi/.kodi/userdata/Database
adb pull DbBackup/MyMusic83.db /sdcard/kodi_data/org.xbmc.kodi/.kodi/userdata/Database
adb pull DbBackup/MyVideos128.db /sdcard/kodi_data/org.xbmc.kodi/.kodi/userdata/Database
adb pull DbBackup/Textures13.db /sdcard/kodi_data/org.xbmc.kodi/.kodi/userdata/Database

Now you can run Kodi and should have any changes you made and your music/video libraries back.

 

[HomerJAU]

@steelydave I started testing Fire TV 192kHz audio today: (BTW the FTV does play Dolby Vision but I'd recommend using ethernet no WiFi for 4K BD rips)

1st test Quad album at 192kHz - Thumbs up!
2nd test Quad album at 192kHz - Failed (stereo only)

I've travelled down a rabbit hole to discover the Fire TV Android Kodi v21 build will ONLY play quad if its in a 6 channel file (silent C and LFE).

• Quad in a 5.1 formatted file (Quad + Silent C and Silent LFE) - this plays a quad on the FTV (correct)
• Quad in a 5.0 formatted file (Quad + Silent C) - stereo output only (wrong)
• Quad in a 4.0 formatted file (Quad with channel mask L, R, Ls, Rs) - stereo output only (wrong)
• Quad in a 4.0 formatted file (Quad with channel mask L, R, Lb Rb - stereo output only (wrong)

All the above quad files play correctly in Kodi v21 on my Intel NUC (LibreElec- a Linux build & in Windows). I suspect the issue is with the new Kodi IEC Packer used to send pass-through in Android. I suspect same Kodi issues on all Android devices...

I have logged an official bug report at Kodi and also messaged a Kodi dev who worked on the Kodi IEC Packer:
https://github.com/xbmc/xbmc/issues/24546
I am confident this will be resolved very soon.

BTW: There have been a few recent post on QQ about quad playback and channel masks so these tests I was going to do on Kodi - Kodi will play 4 channel quads regardless of the channel mask (good) but currently not on the FTV) @sully

My tests are with a Denon AVR X7200W (around 2016 model I think)

 

[HomerJAU]

My Fire TV Project is officially dead: Fire TV Fails our basic requirements.
Edit: 21 Jan - A new Kodi build for Android now supports 24 bit audio and more quad formatted files - It’s not dead yet so you can ignore this post

1. Confirmed by a Kodi dev: Android (on all but NVidia Shield) cannot output 24 bit PCM MCH audio, it’s all converted to 16bit.

2. The FireTV firmware will not play quad files unless you use a 5.1 container (silent C and LFE), to me that’s too restrictive (although MMH can do batch conversions).

I think this fails the FTV as a device we will use here on QQ. It was worth a try to help get some of you using a media player, but the FTV is not going to be the one. Apologies for getting your hopes up.

I’ll leave the current files on my server.

I’ll use my test FTV to play 4K Dolby Vision (it solves a DV issue on my Sony TVs Netflix app, varying brightness which makes it unwatchable and no way to report the issue to Netflix, many users complaining about it too).

 

[JediJoker]

Confirmed by a Kodi dev: Android (on all but NVidia Shield) cannot output 24 bit PCM MCH audio, it’s all converted to 16bit.

For anyone not subscribed to Apple Music—in which case, the only choice is an Apple TV 4K—the Nvidia Shield TV Pro is probably the best choice for a streaming box.

 

[SeeMoreDigital]

My Fire TV Project is officially dead: Fire TV Fails our basic requirements.

1. Confirmed by a Kodi dev: Android (on all but NVidia Shield) cannot output 24 bit PCM MCH audio, it’s all converted to 16bit.

Strange that the 'bit-depth' is converted and not the 'sample-rate'. It was very common back in the day for everything to be re-sampled to 48.000kHz regardless!

 

[himey]

Android (on all but NVidia Shield) cannot output 24 bit PCM MCH audio, it’s all converted to 16bit.

Back when the first generation Firestck 4K played 5.1 FLAC files, this wasn't the case. I had the stick plugged into my Oppo HDMI input, and it showed 24 bit in the Oppo info. Firmware update killed lossless 5.1 playback completely.

 

[SeeMoreDigital]

Back when the first generation Firestck 4K played 5.1 FLAC files, this wasn't the case. I had the stick plugged into my Oppo HDMI input, and it showed 24 bit in the Oppo info. Firmware update killed lossless 5.1 playback completely.

Hopefully it can be brought back...

This is why I was asking a few days ago if Amazon provided a dedicated 'Fire TV' product testing/support group of some kind!

 

[himey]

Hopefully it can be brought back...

This is why I was asking a few days ago if Amazon provided a dedicated 'Fire TV' product testing/support group of some kind!

They are moving away from Android in the next device generation. I can't see them staying focused on the stuff we care about, compared to their bottom line sadly.

 

[SeeMoreDigital]

They are moving away from Android in the next device generation. I can't see them staying focused on the stuff we care about, compared to their bottom line sadly.

Sadly, you're most probably correct... And just as we were all getting used to the Android OS

Edit: I wonder if some of us 'ordinary folk' will be able to test their new 'Fire TV' devices?!

 

[himey]

Edit: I wonder if some of us 'ordinary folk' will be able to test their new 'Fire TV' devices?!

I can't imagine what the research and development consist of, and I probably don't want to know their goals.

 

[HomerJAU]

This is NOT officially dead! (yet)

Some developments overnight. The Kodi dev has had another look at how Kodi is sending audio via the Android Audio Sink and provided me with a new Kodi v21 Omega Android test build:

GOOD NEWS: (new test build on FTV 4K Max):
24bit audio is now supported!!
24/96kHz FLAC is output at 24/96kHz to my AVR!
24/192kHz multichannel is playing correctly (192kHz showing on my AVR)
The test Quads are all outputting 4 channel audio (sent as 5.1 format) and playing correctly!! No need to add silent channels to the files or change channel maps (Edit: Correction 5 channel file: Quad plus silent C not playing)

Looks like 'Its Alive'

I'm still unsure whether the 'fixes' will become part of the official Kodi Android releases or whether I'll need to build a special Kodi release (adding support for 24bit PCM audio and playing Quad in 4 and 5 channel files)

 

[CINERAMAX]

So i set the format on the firestick to maximum quality, play a best of 360 demo playlist and it feeds stereo into the new Denon avrx6800 , nothing in the Denon seems to activate 360.

 

[steelydave]

My Fire TV Project is officially dead: Fire TV Fails our basic requirements.

This is NOT officially dead! (yet)

Thanks so much for doing the legwork on this, your most recent update is really promising. Is there anything it can't play natively in Kodi (aside from MPEG-H RA36) after this last update?

...and just to be sure, is this the link to the proper device on Amazon Canada?

 

[SeeMoreDigital]

...and just to be sure, is this the link to the proper device on Amazon Canada?

Yep... That's the one

 

[HomerJAU]

So i set the format on the firestick to maximum quality, play a best of 360 demo playlist and it feeds stereo into the new Denon avrx6800 , nothing in the Denon seems to activate 360.

I’m not sure except that maybe you don’t have the latest 2nd Gen 4K Max? @audioWolf212 was the user that confirmed 360 was playing on his FTV. Maybe he can confirm any settings (FTV and AVR).

 

[HomerJAU]

Is there anything it can't play natively in Kodi (aside from MPEG-H RA36) after this last update?

I think I’ve tested everything except SACD ISO but I think someone else mentioned that‘s ok. So far good except Android doesn't support Quad with Channel mask L, R, Ls, Rs on a 5.1 system (it wants L, R, Lb, Rb which is the std) but I have a couple of ideas that may workaround that.

The Kodi dev says pure Quad (4 channel) is not supported at all on most Android devices, hence his workaround to send 4 channel as 5.1, but it’s possible the FTV will do 4 channel. I need to test. But in any case Android itself defines Quad as L, R, Lb, Rb only.

Having looked at the audio sink code in Android (how it does pass-through) and in Kodi, I immediately thought maybe I could try to send MPEG-H 3D on the FTV in Kodi. I‘ll look at that once I get Kodi to build on my PC.

I hit a roadblock late yesterday which I’ll look at today. (Silly thing, my user name on my PC is Garry but when I created Linux account on it forced lowercase garry, now Linux doesn’t see my Kodi source in Garry on my Win account. (Android Kodi must be compiled on Linux). Edit: Now solved - The usual issue. Me.

 

[SeeMoreDigital]

I hit a roadblock late yesterday which I’ll look at today. (Silly thing, my user name on my PC is Garry but when I created Linux account on it forced lowercase garry, now Linux doesn’t see my Kodi source in Garry on my Win account. (Android Kodi must be compiled on Linux).

Agggh... It's really annoying when things like that happen

 

[HomerJAU]

I’ve just caught up on last nights Kodi updates and the ‘test’ changes to support 24bit PCM audio and Quad PCM in Kodi Android for the FTV 4K Max are being pushed into all offical Kodi Android builds from today.

Since 24bit is not supported on quite a number of old Android devices there will be a new Advanced Setting to force Kodi to send 24bit instead of the default 16 for Android. Changing the default to 24 would cause issues with most old Android devices so it’s another setting that I’ll pre-configure in my FTV files (the zip file in this project).

As soon as there is a new Kodi Android build I’ll upload a new FTV zip and post here.