Connecting multiple multi-channel analog inputs

Has anyone else confronted the problem of connecting more than one set of multi-channel (5.1) inputs to a home theater receiver or amp that accommodates only one set?

I have the problem now. For about five years I've used the external 5.1 analog inputs on a home theater receiver to connect the 4.0 outputs from my various '70s and '80s surround decoders (quad and Ambisonic). However, this week I picked up a Denon DVD-2200 universal player (DVD-Audio/Video, SACD, etc.). To use it, I must connect it to the external 5.1 inputs, which requires disconnecting the decoders. Of course, I want both connected.

Many months ago in this forum I read what looked like a very good solution: a DB-25 4-position manual switch (http://www.redmondcable.com/Stock_Cables_Product.asp?ID=407) and DB-25 to Six RCA cables (choose Products link at http://www.msbtech.com/msb_home.htm) to attach the audio source units to the switch and the switch to the receiver's external 5.1 inputs.

However, the switch costs $70 and the cable (of which I'd need three), $95 each. That's $355, not including shipping! And to handle what I hope is a temporary problem. Some day I expect to have a receiver that accepts digital DVD-Audio and SACD inputs or that provides at least two sets of 5.1 inputs.

But, I need to connect both the surround decoders and the Denon DVD-2200 soon, so I went looking for a less expensive solution.

I figured that by now someone would offer a 5.1 switch with RCA inputs and outputs, but I couldn't find one. What I did find was the Niles AXP-1, $60 from J&R Music World (http://www.jandr.com/JRProductPage....=NIL+AXP1&JRSource=DealTime.datafeed.NIL+AXP1), the very product I wanted except that it's made for two-channel sources.

A pair of these would work for me. For now at least, my system includes only four speakers (large ones that are a legacy of my purely quadraphonic days), so I've configured the DVD-2200 to assume no center, front speaker and no subwoofer. I could connect the front-channel outputs from the decoders and the DVD-2200 to one AXP-1 and the rear outputs to another. A pair of AXP-1s would cost just $120, plus shipping, and, compared to the DB-25 switch and cables, probably would be a lot easier to sell once I no longer need them.

But, maybe there's a better product or solution. If you know of one, I'd sure like to hear about it.

Larry

Here is one solution:
http://home.comcast.net/~shawnfogg/
But it is still almost $300.00 for switchbox and remote.

Sandy -

The unit you've identified has promise. The Web page describing it is pretty crude, but the unit itself looks fairly professional. I couldn't find a name, so I'll call it the Fogg 5.1 Switch Box after the apparent inventor.

Looks like it costs just $225 for the switch box alone, a big improvement over $355 for the DB-25 switch and cables. Of course, it still requires three sets of six RCA cables, which raises the cost, but that's true for any switch.

I'm surprised the Fogg Switch Box did not come up in my Google search for "5.1 audio switch". The Zektor MAS3 Multi-channel Audio Switch 3 (http://www.zektor.com/mas3/) did. It connects up to three 5.1 audio sources and includes an IR remote control receiver which the manufacturer claims works with most universal remotes. Price, not surprisingly, is much higher: $449.

Larry

Would it be possible to just use "Y" audio cable connectors for this application? I use several sets of them in both my stereo (Sony Amplifier) and Quad (Heathkit AR2020) set-ups and I have not seen any degradation of signal or loss of quality. The only thing you have to remember is to never have more than one input running at a time.


MTGC (Michael)

Many of us have had success using the DBX System Controller series: DBX 200 and DBX 400.

While both of these are "stereo" controllers (so you need 2 of them to handle quad), they provide immense flexibility........3 processor loops, 3 tape deck loops, pre/post switches (putting the processor loops before or after the tape deck loops) and a separate "noise reduction loop" that you can either use or bypass (normally comes with jumpers installed).

The 200 is totally passive, the 400 draws minimal power to light red LEDs to easily show what is selected.

The 400 also adds additional capabilities including the ability to not only put the processing loops pre/post the tape loops but also inbetween the tape loops for processing while dubbing (same is true for its noise reduction loop).

While these are no longer made they are easily available on Ebay. Prices run from $20-60 for the 200 controllers and $40-150 for the 400. (there were many model variations over the years......400, 400X, 400XG).

In my own personal system I'm running four each of the 400X Controllers.....and have enough capability to run everything in my system (including 3 quad reel decks, TATE II, QSD-1000, DBX noise reduction, DBX dynamic range expanders, DBX source noise reduction units, equalizers, cassette deck, CD transport, Two DTS/DD decoders (outboard), CD burner, Q8 decks....................All through ONE tape loop of my QRX-999!

The great thing is that you can simply push a switch to either bring a processor or component into the circuit or take it out completely.

For "true" 5.1 you would need 3 of them, but even with that the price would be competitive........and the flexibility is just great!:sun

Here is the result: The Quad System from Hell!:banana:

MTGC and QuadBob -

I'm getting better ideas than I had hoped for. The Y cables might work, though I've always avoided them based on a vague understanding that they could cause signal attenuation or overloading or something unpleasant. I think I tried using Y cables many years ago and encountered problems, and so have harbored a bias against them since.

Even if the Y cables would work, the DBX 200 and 400 sound like they would provide a solution to my immediate problem and offer lots of additional capability. I disconnected my quad reel deck from my system years ago. With these I might get it connected again.

And on top of that, it sounds like these could easily cost less than the Niles AXP-1, which is simply a 5-position switch.

Thanks very much for your suggestions.

Larry

I am currently using Y adapters as I have never been able to find anything else suitable. Its a big hassle, as you have to have the powere off on any item not in use or the one you want won't work. I am investigating some of the ideas in this thread. Thanks!
Marc

Another cheap solution could be to use simple stereo switch boxes. They're basically the same like the DBX 200 or 400's but they don't have the capabilities to have loops etc. If you just need to multiply your inputs they're easy to use. Usually, they allow one input and 4 outputs. So, just get 3 of these units and your multi-channel analog in has 4 separate inputs. These switchers should cost something like $15 each.

Michael

mrtickle said:

Another cheap solution could be to use simple stereo switch boxes. They're basically the same like the DBX 200 or 400's but they don't have the capabilities to have loops etc. If you just need to multiply your inputs they're easy to use. Usually, they allow one input and 4 outputs. So, just get 3 of these units and your multi-channel analog in has 4 separate inputs. These switchers should cost something like $15 each.

Michael

Click to expand...

That's exactly what the Niles AXP-1 (see my original post) is, though at $60 it's fairly pricey.

But aside from that, who sells the $15 switchers? I checked the most obvious source, Radio Shack. Here's the only unit I found there: http://www.radioshack.com/product.a..._name=CTLG_007_002_008_000&product_id=42-2112. Note that it's out of stock.

A look at the Best Buy and Circuit City Web sites turned up no such product. I also checked J and R Music World (www.jandr.com) again. They offer a number of switchers, mostly from Niles, but none that I saw in the $15 price region.

Larry

larryclifton said:

That's exactly what the Niles AXP-1 (see my original post) is, though at $60 it's fairly pricey.

But aside from that, who sells the $15 switchers? I checked the most obvious source, Radio Shack. Here's the only unit I found there: http://www.radioshack.com/product.a..._name=CTLG_007_002_008_000&product_id=42-2112. Note that it's out of stock.

A look at the Best Buy and Circuit City Web sites turned up no such product. I also checked J and R Music World (www.jandr.com) again. They offer a number of switchers, mostly from Niles, but none that I saw in the $15 price region.

Larry

Click to expand...

Larry,

yes I have to admit I live in Germany and at some places selling electronic equipment you can find quite simple switchers in that price range. Sorry for the confusion. Generally, I thought that it must be possible to get this kind of switcher for about the same price in the US.

Michael

I've used this Radio Shack switch in the past. I just hooked up some 2 channel A/V switches to set up some input switching into the Tate, and used two of the A/B switches, and an A/B/C switch, The double input switch was $15.00 or so, the triple was $25.00. They're less cheesy than the one pictured. Now I can select VCR, TV box, or DVD, record TV or DVD to VCR, and have a CD player connected in as well.

I made my own setup. I bought 3 DB-25 Black Box 6 source switch boxes for <$10 on ebay. Then I bought some cable that has 6 pair foil insulated wires, and soldered on RCAs on one end and DB-25 connectors on the other. If you do a good job, it sounds great. I've had several people try to tell if there is any signal degredation, and none can. Sounds great to me, and cheap too! Only problem is it is not remote controllable.

Dan in Spokane

sspsandy said:

I've used this Radio Shack switch in the past. I just hooked up some 2 channel A/V switches to set up some input switching into the Tate, and used two of the A/B switches, and an A/B/C switch, The double input switch was $15.00 or so, the triple was $25.00. They're less cheesy than the one pictured. Now I can select VCR, TV box, or DVD, record TV or DVD to VCR, and have a CD player connected in as well.

Click to expand...

I use the Radio Shack switchers. I have 2 pairs of the triples, in order to hook up 1: DVD-A player; 2: SACD player; 3: SQ decoder. The first pair has the DVD-A hooked into switch A & the second pair of switch boxes into switch B. Then in the second switch box, I have the SQ decoder in switch A & the SACD player in switch B. Set up like this, to hear DVD-A all 4 switches are set to A. To hear SACD, all switches are set to B. To hear SQ, the first set of boxes is set to A & the second to B. I tried the Y cables first, as a cheaper alternative, but they shorted out everything even when only 1 component was on. The Rat Shack stuff works great!

Larry Geller said:

I use the Radio Shack switchers. I have 2 pairs of the triples, in order to hook up 1: DVD-A player; 2: SACD player; 3: SQ decoder. The first pair has the DVD-A hooked into switch A & the second pair of switch boxes into switch B. Then in the second switch box, I have the SQ decoder in switch A & the SACD player in switch B. Set up like this, to hear DVD-A all 4 switches are set to A. To hear SACD, all switches are set to B. To hear SQ, the first set of boxes is set to A & the second to B. I tried the Y cables first, as a cheaper alternative, but they shorted out everything even when only 1 component was on. The Rat Shack stuff works great!

Click to expand...

This sounds like a 2 device switchbox to me. Not triple. If they were triple then I would just feed DVD-A into switch position A; SACD into B and SQ into C. You would only need 2 boxes with a triple switcher. Much simpler.
I checked Larry Clifton's link to Radio Shack. That model (Cat# 42-2112) is a triple switcher. It is only out of stock in the "on-line" store. The local stores in my area seem to have it in stock. And it is only $16 each! For a little over $30 I'll pick up a pair so I can connect my universal player, SQ & QS decoders.

KevinD9052 said:

This sounds like a 2 device switchbox to me. Not triple. If they were triple then I would just feed DVD-A into switch position A; SACD into B and SQ into C. You would only need 2 boxes with a triple switcher. Much simpler.
I checked Larry Clifton's link to Radio Shack. That model (Cat# 42-2112) is a triple switcher. It is only out of stock in the "on-line" store. The local stores in my area seem to have it in stock. And it is only $16 each! For a little over $30 I'll pick up a pair so I can connect my universal player, SQ & QS decoders.

Click to expand...

I meant 3 inputs: L,R & Video. It does only take 2 devices. When I went to ask for a triple connector at RS, they said it didn't exist. Too late now.

I use two Zealous "high quality" audio/video switch boxes I bought on ebay for about $30 each. Each box has selection for four sources using push buttons. On box I use for front L-C-R, the other is for rear L-R plus sub. The center and sub is plugged in to what is designated "video". And no, there's no loss of quality. I have my Quad preamp (a Pioneer QC800A, which in turn has a Tate and a JVC Demodulator, a Sony TC864-4S quad reel, and a Dual 701 plugged into it) output plugged into one input set, and the 5.1 output from my universal player plugged into the set 2 (3 & 4 for future possiblities). The box's output then goes into my processor's (Outlaw 950) 5.1 analog inputs. This is great because the Outlaw's 5.1 inputs provides bass management for SACD, DVD-A AND Quad sources.

Granted I have to get up to push the buttons manually, but I really don't have to do that too often, as I usually only listen to one type of source (quad, 5.1, video) at a sitting.

I am new to this forum and not yet acquainted with how everything works.Please be tolerant of my lack of ability.

I was an electronics technician while in the U.S. Navy. Although this was not my civilian career choice, I continue to work at it through my hobby of restoring Pioneer stereo components. As such, I solve problems on the bench not in a store.

Like you. It seemed I had more inputs than input connections. So, I designed, for personal use, a device I call,4-Channel Peripheral Expansion Unit. This allows me to control everything from one component.

In a nutshell. Picture, if you will, three, three position rotory swithes and one four position rotory switch. #1 is input 1; #2 is input 2; #3 is input 3 and #4 monitors source or #1 or #2 or #3. The unique thing about this circuit is that the output of any of the three can be directed to any other. 1 to 2; 1 to 3; 2 to 1; 2 to 3; 3 to 1; 3 to 2 and then monitored by 4. This is a very simple description of one portion of the unit. It may not be your fix but, it solved my problem.

I wish I knew how to import my schematic but I'm not computer savy enough yet. So, until someone teaches me how to do so, I will be happy to F.A.X. anyone the schematic of the portion I have just described.

About 20 years ago I built a similar matrix switchbox for stereo sources. Perhaps an easier way to visualize the arrangement is to draw a series of vertical lines across a sheet of paper (each line represents a stereo pair, or a group of quad inputs, 5.1 inputs, what have you) and label each line or column as A, B, C, etc. Now draw a series of intersecting horizontal lines, labeling each line or row as 1, 2, 3, etc.....the whole thing should look like an expanded tic-tac-toe grid. At each intersection of the lines, a switch is placed....I used DPDT (center off) toggle switches, you'd need 4PDT (center off) for quad or 6PDT (center off) switches for 5.1. (I connected rows 1 & 2, 3 & 4, etc. to each pole of the switch, with the common contacts going to the vertical columns....the only reason I did it this way instead of using DPST switches was because I built mine out of a switchbox from a junked PA system and thus already had the switches, mounted in a cabinet, and happened to have it given to me). Closing the connection at the chosen intersection will connect any input to any output. Note that the rows and columns are interchangable and can be configured as either the inputs or the outputs. Note also that using toggle instead of rotary switches allows you to switch more than one input and output at a time! This allowed me to connect any component to any other component in any order or combination without ever having to swap connections on the rear of the components.....an extremely useful device indeed! If anyone plans to duplicate such a switchbox, be sure to use good quality jacks, switches, shielded cable, and a well-shielded metal enclosure so that the signal path is not degraded....

Yours Truly,
john e. bogus