2 Speakers are better than 5.1?

[jimfisheye]

... I want physical media that don't quit working...

Everything wears out. Not possible.

I want ... media that don't quit working when the program to play it is deprecated.
...

Here you have to learn how to avoid software spoofing and recognize gaslighting. And keep backups. And don't ever trust a 'cloud account' as a backup! (See gaslighting.)

Forgive my edits there! Those are two different categories and separate answers.

 

[inspclouseau]

What happens when the old gear fails and nothing is available to replace it?

Streaming might be good except when they delete your favorite music.

Same thing about rentals. What do you do when they stop renting your favorite?

1)We have a couple of older amps in boxes that would still work fine. Or find an older one in good shape. We're 60 now, so would have no problems finding anything in good condition and is usable still.
2) Streaming SUCKS as I have said when folks who live in the woods cannot obtain reasonable, quick enough internet speeds and THEY (streaming and music companies) control what 'they' decide to LET you listen to. And who in the hell exactly is doing 'quality' mixing on these streaming titles? And who is dropping titles and albums, and then replacing with others? As I have said...again.. streaming is RENTAL.. it costs monthly and zero choice in format. NO DTS for instance.. Glad we have a ton of physical 'discs' over the years. Lucky. The younguns are fing sht up as usual!.....

 

[stoopid]

The younguns are fing sht up as usual!.....

Technically the record companies (still mostly old white guys running them) are f%$^ing sh|t up, as usual.

 

[stoopid]

1)We have a couple of older amps in boxes that would still work fine. Or find an older one in good shape. We're 60 now, so would have no problems finding anything in good condition and is usable still.
2) Streaming SUCKS as I have said when folks who live in the woods cannot obtain reasonable, quick enough internet speeds and THEY (streaming and music companies) control what 'they' decide to LET you listen to. And who in the hell exactly is doing 'quality' mixing on these streaming titles? And who is dropping titles and albums, and then replacing with others? As I have said...again.. streaming is RENTAL.. it costs monthly and zero choice in format. NO DTS for instance.. Glad we have a ton of physical 'discs' over the years. Lucky. The younguns are fing sht up as usual!.....

To your larger point I agree, the idea of streaming = owning is not a thing. And then they get to set the price for access.

 

[jimfisheye]

Technically the record companies (still mostly old white guys running them) are f%$^ing sh|t up, as usual.

This x1,000,000,000!

I could say they appear to be doing the thing where you create an intermediate version of a product and hold back a new feature for next year. For audio that would translate to intentionally damaging the audio for a novelty release to leave room for an upgrade down the line.

So that sounds absolutely batshit insane, right? Conspiracy corner tinfoil hat lunacy!

Alright, so it must be that some of the engineers at some of the biggest record company associated mastering houses don't even have basic beginner audio skills then?

That's no better and feels absurdly misguided to say. Certainly quite insulting! Wanting to give benefit of doubt leads me to think it's more the former scenario.

I still hear really stunning mix work and mastering work. Stuff from 60 years ago to present that's so well done it's just humbling. So... I'm hearing that. Same ears, same speakers. So I guess that rules out me being deaf and everything sounding like a screw up! Still subjective perhaps.

I don't know...

Maybe audio is hard and that's why we celebrate the masterpieces!

 

[Sal1950]

I miss album stores and used album stores too, now that someone mentioned it. But the computer always just works and I have all this 24 bit surround sound music that sounds just perfect. And now we have these ambitious 12 channel mixes from some dedicated crazy people and the format looks to be permanent. The last 15 years of serious high tech is all over the used markers for pennies on the dollar. These are good times!

I get nostalgic at times like everyone. But in the big picture for music lovers and high fidelity enthusiasts, these are absolutely "the good times". The very best we've ever enjoyed!

To your larger point I agree, the idea of streaming = owning is not a thing.

For me, it's all good and they all have their good and bad points.
I use streaming for quick access to the new and old stuff I want to hear and don't own. For many reasons I would never ever consider streaming as my main source of music. But at around $10 a month, it offers a huge high quality option I never would have believed possible only a few short decades back.

My computer holds approx 4,000 albums in 2, 4, 5.1, and Atmos files of the music I most love.
The space in my under 1k sqft is very limited so holding onto a large number of hard media is
difficult. Also for me, I found the speed and convenience of PC file access very appealing so I
only hold onto a very limited number of discs now.

I'm 73yo and been a "audiophile" most of my life. I'm absolutely thrilled over the world of music options we live in today !!!


Not so much so for the rest of things in the world.

 

[stoopid]

...But at around $10 a month...

For now...

Just wait until every record company starts their own streaming service like the TV/movie industry has recently fragmented. Then you'll be pining for that $10 a month, for each.

 

[Sal1950]

For now...

Just wait until every record company starts their own streaming service like the TV/movie industry has recently fragmented. Then you'll be pining for that $10 a month, for each.

You could very well be right. I don't trust them for a number of reasons.
That's why my main source will always be hard media or it's rips.
No one can shut me off except Duke energy.

 

[MidiMagic]

That's what the backup machine is for.
Today I'd grab the backup. I'm honestly not sure what I might go for for a new laptop. There isn't a product like the Macbook Pro anymore. (Sure as heck not the new versions with their soldered in hard drives!) It's either cheapness 'netbooks' or gamer monsters for $6000.

----

Yeah, they don't make AR9's anymore either but I found more 2nd hand and was able to just expand from 6 to 12 channels without starting over.

By the time your main machine fails, you get out the backup and find that it has failed or is about to fail too.

Many electronic devices have a limited lifetime of about 15 years from the date of manufacture.

A lab I worked for decided to buy spare computers to replace their working computers. They locked them in a closet. When a main computer failed, they got out a spare. It failed within 6 weeks.

We found it was impossible to do a 20, 25, or 50 year study using computers and obeying ceteris paribus. We could not get new identical replacements.

 

[MidiMagic]

No one can tell the future, but considering the optical disc has been with us for about 40 years I see there being at least a niche market for someone to keep making a universal player long after I'm gone.

I do rip some media, but primarily listen to disc. I deal with technology enough and find the simplicity of putting in a disc and pressing play appealing. That and I don't want the limited time I get to be able to enjoy the room spent patching or troubleshooting things. Nothing wrong with either approach.

But they won't They won't do anything unless they can get patent or copyright royalties from it.

 

[MidiMagic]

1)We have a couple of older amps in boxes that would still work fine. Or find an older one in good shape. We're 60 now, so would have no problems finding anything in good condition and is usable still.

They are aging as they sit there in the box. In fact, some parts age faster when they are not used.

 

[DrKlahn]

But they won't They won't do anything unless they can get patent or copyright royalties from it.

I'm saying I think there will be a market for someone to keep making a universal player due to the prolific amount of optical discs made over the last 40 or so years. I think it would be priced to make a profit.

Are you talking about continuing to make media? That I can see going away at some point (unfortunately). But with as much media is already out there, I do feel a player would be lucrative to keep making for some time.

 

[jimfisheye]

By the time your main machine fails, you get out the backup and find that it has failed or is about to fail too.

Many electronic devices have a limited lifetime of about 15 years from the date of manufacture.

A lab I worked for decided to buy spare computers to replace their working computers. They locked them in a closet. When a main computer failed, they got out a spare. It failed within 6 weeks.

We found it was impossible to do a 20, 25, or 50 year study using computers and obeying ceteris paribus. We could not get new identical replacements.

Actually I kind of don't like things just lazing around so I find things for them to do. The 2nd Mac Pro is either a test machine or it takes field trips for remote gigs. The 2nd Macbook Pro is my Dolby machine right now for reasons.

I do get what you're saying and it IS good advice! This stuff is all in service though. And these were different times products where that weirdo Jobs was doing 'build it for life' quality. Hard drives are always the main consumable. (SSD just as much as HDD.) Mainly why I have no interest in current Apple. All my drives are all within 3 or 4 years old.

Honestly, I suspect I'll be building some DIY tower in the near future just because there are lower power use options now. Besides some graphics advances in the last couple years, lower power use is actually one of the main advances. I predict both of these retiring fully functional. No clue what I'd want for a new laptop. No one makes slick laptops for audio like these older MBPs at present.

 

[stoopid]

I'm saying I think there will be a market for someone to keep making a universal player due to the prolific amount of optical discs made over the last 40 or so years. I think it would be priced to make a profit.

Are you talking about continuing to make media? That I can see going away at some point (unfortunately). But with as much media is already out there, I do feel a player would be lucrative to keep making for some time.

And manufactured (pressed) compact discs seem to be lasting. I have one from the 1980s that still plays fine, many that are 20+ years old. Best guess is 50 years before the material components on compact discs start to 'fail' (degrade), but we're living history so it could be much longer and there's arguments made by some that extend that 50 year mark by a century or more. Not being a chemist/mechanic engineer, I can't say for sure and only have my anecdotal experience to pull from.

Newer manufactured discs (dvds, blurays) should theoretically have a similar lifespan. If that's true then there will certainly be a market for players for many decades to come. And with the tech underlying the players being cheap as ever to manufacture, the prices should be low even with less overall demand for a niche product.

Burned media (cdrw, dvd+/-r, bd) is a huge question mark. There's different material compositions used, some seem to be lasting longer without degradation than others. 'Quality' of blank media definitely matters. That said, most discs we would be buying from name brands (Verbatim, Sony, TDK, etc) are good enough. There's "archival" grade blank media available at a premium cost if someone wants to maximize the chances for longevity.

 

[barfle]

What happens when the old gear fails and nothing is available to replace it?

Streaming might be good except when they delete your favorite music.

Same thing about rentals. What do you do when they stop renting your favorite?

Just because I thought it was ridiculously cool in 1969, and I could not afford it at the time, I bought a Motorola Teleplayer from a surplus house sometime in the 1980s. I bought every film I could find since then. I have about 25 films, and I now have three players, just so I have a supply of parts.

All that said, it is my intent to digitize that media and put it on DVDs sooner or later, because the parts supply will run out, and while the flying spot scanner is a very cool way to make an electric picture from a chemical one, the technology is deservedly obsolete.

 

[barfle]

Burned media (cdrw, dvd+/-r, bd) is a huge question mark. There's different material compositions used, some seem to be lasting longer without degradation than others. 'Quality' of blank media definitely matters. That said, most discs we would be buying from name brands (Verbatim, Sony, TDK, etc) are good enough. There's "archival" grade blank media available at a premium cost if someone wants to maximize the chances for longevity.

I’ve had a few burned CDs fail, but they were kept in a car, which is notorious for being a bad environment for just about any temperature-sensitive item (recall babies dying in hot cars?). That being said, I keep burn files of all my work, so it’s easy to make a new one.

M-discs are supposed to last for 1,000 years, although nobody has tested them for that long. I think about getting a handful of blanks every time I run low, and my burners are supposedly compatible, but so far I’ve gone cheap.

 

[stoopid]

I’ve had a few burned CDs fail, but they were kept in a car, which is notorious for being a bad environment for just about any temperature-sensitive item (recall babies dying in hot cars?). That being said, I keep burn files of all my work, so it’s easy to make a new one.

M-discs are supposed to last for 1,000 years, although nobody has tested them for that long. I think about getting a handful of blanks every time I run low, and my burners are supposedly compatible, but so far I’ve gone cheap.

I was also surprised to learn a few years ago about disc eating fungus. There's a lot of things that can take discs out, include placing them face down on any number of surfaces. But considering how tiny the data grooves are, error correction buys us a lot of leeway, and in turn quite a bit of longevity. The biggest enemy of any disc media is ourselves.

 

[LB-V]

get nostalgic at times like everyone. But in the big picture for music lovers and high fidelity enthusiasts, these are absolutely "the good times". The very best we've ever enjoyed!

Couldn't agree more...simply amazing the options we have and the amount of content in different available formats. I mean, albums are all the rage, we have Quadio blu-rays, lossless stereo downloads to run through our old QSD's or a new Surround Master, streaming multi- channel, Atmos to experiement with and stuff I'm probably not thinking of.

And I love the positive perspective!

 

[inspclouseau]

They are aging as they sit there in the box. In fact, some parts age faster when they are not used.

all good when WE are on the back-side of turning to fn dirt anyway..Right? We have 3 oppos, One is being stored...

 

[Owen Smith]

all good when WE are on the back-side of turning to fn dirt anyway..Right? We have 3 oppos, One is being stored...

I have two Oppo 203s, one of which is a long term spare. I guess this means I should rotate them every 6 months to a year to get some use out of each.