96Khz vs 192Khz

QuadraphonicQuad

Help Support QuadraphonicQuad:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Okay what I'm getting from all this is, record in whatever makes you happy, as long as your master is done right (provided there are no recording discrepancies).

Recording and mixing takes great skill, and there are many ways to make a bad recording. Any of the established sampling rates can produce fantastic releases. Redbook is perfectly good. When you hear bad Redbook recordings, it'll likely be the mastering that has destroyed it. Remember, Redbook allows for more dynamic range than Vinyl can produce. Yet what we often get is the opposite.

In short - you can record in any way you want, but if you're going to fall down at the final hurdle with the mastering, it'll all sound bad.
 
You can use a dynamic range expander or peak unlimiter when playing back LPs, too.

https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/forums/threads/dynamic-range-expanders.13420
Ok so this link go's back like 11 years ago. And the equipment is even older. I had the Pioneer RG 1 Range Expander years n years ago. Two of them for Quad modified for max inter-channel seperation. It was magnificent for... 1982 or 3. What is new hardware or software applicable for this purpose today? How does your post relate to the original topic of digital sampling rates?
 
Last edited:
I'll take a shot.

The "load" would be on DACs sample rate filter eq at SD sample rates. ie. The fact that said eq is in use at all.

In SD sample rates (especially 44.1k) the sampling frequency is RIGHT next to the audio band. So close that the sampling frequency needs to be eq filtered out with a steep lo pass or it will roll into the audio band. This is in the analog domain after the AD chip. This kind of steep eq is a hard circuit to build! It turns out that the factor you are comparing between different DACs at SD sampling rates is that analog eq circuit.

Meanwhile HD sample rates put the sampling frequency miles away from the audio band. The margin is so wide that eq filtering is not needed. Like tape bias whistle.

Right - as I mentioned previously, due to steep filters for 44.1khz audio there's a theoretical benefit to e.g. 48khz and beyond, if your DAC is older/lacks configurable filters/has a bad analog stage design, as it gives you more room to do that filtering.

But

- most modern DACs (with commodity chips that measure excellently as a species, better than even the most expensive DACs ever have) are going to implement these filters in exactly the same way, using the same parts - this is why we often see "bespoke" $20k DACs fail at a basic level compared to $200 DACs when put to measurement tests - because well-designed DAC circuits are a commodity, and well-solved. It's the audiophile hobbyists which try to re-solve it that usually implement bad DAC circuits - this is also why many modern DACs let you select the steepness of this filter, if you care to.

- the place where this filtering intersects with the audible band, if it does at all, is at the very top of the spectrum, well above 16-17khz, which none of us over the age of say 20 or so can hear anymore. So if you happened to have a DAC that wasn't good at this as demonstrated by measurements, the artifacts would be largely or totally inaudible to you, unless you're a heretofore undiscovered freak of nature.

- 48khz gives you plenty of headroom for a reasonable rolloff - so again, samplerates higher than that are capturing ultrasonics which are demonstrably, from the perspective of the human ear, junk data.

If your DAC sounds better at 96k because of this, upsampling SD program is an excellent workaround. The music signal is in there fully. The analog filter eq is your problem. We remove it from the equation. And yes, it's gross compared to any generational loss from upsampling. So much so that it's not fair to mention.

Right, so 96k puts the sampling frequency miles above the audio band. Not sure what anyone thinks they need 192k or above to do. I mentioned my tests. There may be some processing that benefits from extreme HD sample rates (I doubt it). When you're done with that, the full program can be put into 96k with no loss.

Yep - this is why DACs with selectable filters are nice. But again I'm not convinced that there's real data that anyone "needs" 96khz to give them enough filter headroom - there's not going to be audible differences in filter steepness between 48khz and 96khz, because any filter artifacts are gonna be way beyond all of our hearing thresholds.
 
Last edited:
The very first CD I bought sounded awful. I finally figured out that it was a bootleg and whoever copied it from a record didn't run it through the RIAA deemphasis.
 
I have the original CD releases of Queen studio albums, these were direct from the stereo master tapes originally intended for vinyl. I also have the 2011 remasters CD boxset of Queen studio albums, and while the fidelity is a little better I much prefer the originals as the dynamic range has been crushed on the remasters. Another Bob Ludwig butchery job.
 
I have the original CD releases of Queen studio albums, these were direct from the stereo master tapes originally intended for vinyl. I also have the 2011 remasters CD boxset of Queen studio albums, and while the fidelity is a little better I much prefer the originals as the dynamic range has been crushed on the remasters. Another Bob Ludwig butchery job.


Bob Ludwig did what the client wanted.
 
er...you could...but is this your way of saying you can get 16 bits of resolution (much less 24) from an LP? Because you can't.

Has zero to do with sampling rates, too.


LPs are analog.
 
Vinyl has slowly been making a comeback in recent years. In 2020, vinyl trumped annual revenue of CDs in the U.S. for the first time in 34 years, the Recording Industry Association of America reported.

That trend is continuing in 2021. The number of vinyl LPs sold rose 108% in the first six months of the year, up from 9.2 million during the same period in 2020.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/13/mus...inyl-albums-higher-in-first-half-of-2021.html
This is happening because marketing is saying that vinyl for modern music is better than digital, which is false. All the uneducated people are eating it up.
 
Of the people i know who buy vinyl, none of them do so because they think it sounds better. It all a nostalgia trip for them or they do it for the "cool" factor.

In addition, none of them have a decent system to play their vinyl on. Most have cheap ION or AT USB turntables. A few rely on sound bars.
 
Of the people i know who buy vinyl, none of them do so because they think it sounds better. It all a nostalgia trip for them or they do it for the "cool" factor.

In addition, none of them have a decent system to play their vinyl on. Most have cheap ION or AT USB turntables. A few rely on sound bars.
That's what I believe is going on too. They still consider their mp3 copies (of volume war CDs) to be the "master". They want to hear their mp3s slathered with vinyl damage artifacts and turntable issue artifacts for nostalgia for their parents malfunctioning turntable as an effect. Of course they're listening to Bose ear buds, Beats jewelry, or shitbars! Or worse. Much much worse... Worst Purchase/Amazon/etc sells these bluetooth connecting headphones nowadays that have to be heard to be believed. How literally every single pair isn't returned as defective is beyond me. The combination of shrill distortion and the gurgle-y bluetooth connection is an experience.
 
This is happening because marketing is saying that vinyl for modern music is better than digital, which is false. All the uneducated people are eating it up.

I heard the audio industry is beaming radio waves at peoples brains to make them bend to their will.
 
Vinyl has slowly been making a comeback in recent years. In 2020, vinyl trumped annual revenue of CDs in the U.S. for the first time in 34 years, the Recording Industry Association of America reported.

That trend is continuing in 2021. The number of vinyl LPs sold rose 108% in the first six months of the year, up from 9.2 million during the same period in 2020.


Uh huh. Now put that in context of all music sales in all formats. Think analog is 'winning'?
 
Uh huh. Now put that in context of all music sales in all formats. Think analog is 'winning'?
I buy the occasional LP record just for fun, not because I think it sounds superior to equally well recorded/mastered digital. While it's interesting to see LP sales leading CD, it's never specified if that might be largely due to CD sales falling fast.

And if bit depth defines the total dynamic range of a format, then I guess LP at a historically term accepted range of ~60dB could be converted to bit depth. On my phone right now or I'd do the math... I'm thinking LP pales even compared to CD.
 
Bob Ludwig did what the client wanted.
That's actually far from clear having read some stuff from the band members since. Everything they've re-issued since has used a different master, why would you do that if you were happy with what was done in 2011?
 
Back
Top