Bootleg SACD / DVD-Audio Discs?

[Old Quad Guy]

I’m looking for SACD / DVD-Audio titles, but question what I’m getting… Some titles off eBay are sold by sellers as “manufactured in the EU.” That may or may not be true, but I've seen some sellers from China claim to have titles that are “manufactured in the EU." Perhaps the EU titles are manufactured in China. Is this the real deal? :

http://cgi.ebay.com/Deep-Purple-Mac...ryZ46354QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Or is this the real deal? :

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Machine-Head-Remastered-Deep-Purple/dp/B00008RWRN

Is there even such a thing as a bootleg SACD / DVD-A? And if so how can one tell the difference? Is there a difference in sound quality?

 

[radiodaddy]

I know there are boot DVD-As - I've seen more than a few on eBay, among other places. Don't know about SACD.

I would hazard a guess that the quality would be suspect because of DRM. Obviously, SACDs are nearly impossible to crak. I'd bet that the boot DVDs I've seen were mastered off the DD or DTS tracks, since those are easier to rip than the hi-res track.

The eBay seller of Machine Head looks legit, at least from his feedback and the other items he has for sale. Only ?? I have is why there's no picture of the disc - he has pics of everything else. The Amazon looks OK, too.

FWIW, I got a copy of the Machine Head SACD a couple of months ago from a British seller (can't remember who, though - might be DVD4Me.) Apparaently they are still available there.

 

[Quadzilla]

I got my Machine Head SACD from a Hong Kong seller. No problems, and MUCH faster shipping than it would have been from the US.

 

[Old Quad Guy]

I got my Machine Head SACD from a Hong Kong seller. No problems, and MUCH faster shipping than it would have been from the US.

Sounds reasonable. The original SACDs are perhaps manufactured in China.

I know there are boot DVD-As - I've seen more than a few on eBay, among other places. Don't know about SACD.

Is there a way to spot the fake DVD-A's on eBay?



I don't want any fake crap!!

 

[Cai Campbell]

The main problem with "bootlegs" in regards to SACD is not necessarily whether or not they are legitimate but whether or not they are SACDs at all! Asian bootleggers love to plaster product with logos for no other purpose than decoration. So, a Chinese disc of a questionable title with an SACD and DSD logo very likely is a regular CD that was not even DSD mastered.

This is not to say that there aren't legitimate SACDs or DSD mastered CDs from mainland China, because there most certainly are. However, the proliferation of bogus titles makes it extremely difficult to ferret out the legitmate ones.

 

[Quadzilla]

Asian bootleggers love to plaster product with logos for no other purpose than decoration.

Yep, just search for HDCDs on eBay. Yikes!

 

[Cai Campbell]

Yep, just search for HDCDs on eBay. Yikes!

Yep. And I should point out that the incorrect logo issue in mainland China is also a big problem with legitimate releases, so legitimacy is still no guarantee that what you're getting is as advertised.

 

[soundboy]

I purchased from the ebay seller, unixsystem, in the first link many times before. His items are legit. Last February, I purchased the then-unknown XRCD of Carpenters' "Gold - Greatest Hits" from unixsystem, which caused quite a discussion on the A&M Forum.

Almost all SACDs released by mainland China or Hong Kong music companies are made elsewhere. The only prominent SACD titles made locally, by Viva Magnetics in Hong Kong, were from Hong Kong Universal Music. Some of the local HK independent labels also have SACDs made by Viva. However, Viva-made SACD have developed a cracking problem similar to that of Crest National domestic SACD of Pink Floyd's DSOTM. Viva appears to be out of the SACD pressing business since all recent Hong Kong SACD releases were made either in Germany, Austria, or Japan (Sony). As far as I know, there is no SACD pressing plan in mainland China.

As for buying SACDs from HK ebay resellers or HK e-tailers, I have never run into any problems. I buy a lot of SACD from that region and I have almost all of the SACD released there....even those not listed at sa-cd.net (see link in signature). SACD titles still available in HK are often not available elsewhere since there're differences in music preferences.

As for logo abuse, be it HDCD, DSD, or SACD, if your purchase was released by a reputable music company, I seriously doubt there's any problem. The problem comes when you buy a counterfeit item that's covered with all sorts of these logos.

If you have any question about SACD or any question about this region, drop me a PM. I'll be glad to answer any question if I know the answer.

 

[Chris Gerhard]

I have never heard of a bootleg SACD, are there any?

Chris

 

[soundboy]

I have never heard of a bootleg SACD, are there any?

I suspect there're some. However, it depends on one's definition of "bootleg". Usually, it comes down to whether the material is in the public domain or not, and that varies from country to country. I mean, there're "legit" SACDs with Elvis tracks in Europe because his music is now in the public domain in certain countries. Same situation appear to be happening in very limited cases in China.

 

[winopener]

Some example?

 

[Audi A3]

Soundboy

Have you seen this Roxette DSD disc before

 

[Chris Gerhard]

I suspect there're some. However, it depends on one's definition of "bootleg". Usually, it comes down to whether the material is in the public domain or not, and that varies from country to country. I mean, there're "legit" SACDs with Elvis tracks in Europe because his music is now in the public domain in certain countries. Same situation appear to be happening in very limited cases in China.

I was aware of a few of those and I guess I didn't really consider those bootlegs. I think most or all of the Supreme Jazz SACD releases are in that category.

Chris

 

[Quadzilla]

I was aware of a few of those and I guess I didn't really consider those bootlegs. I think most or all of the Supreme Jazz SACD releases are in that category.

Chris

I agree. When I think of a bootleg, I think of a copy, usually poor quality, of a legitimate release ... either that or a live recording of a concert done without the artist's consent.

 

[John Svensson]

Technically, I think those who are inclined ......only consider "bootlegs" to be releases of items that are not commercially available (concerts or studio outakes). Any copy of a legitimate release is either a counterfeit if made to deceive the buyer, or a pirate copy if not meant to pass as the real legitimate release. At least those are the distictions made in Hot Wacks, the booter's bible. John

 

[soundboy]

Soundboy

Have you seen this Roxette DSD disc before

No, I have not and I guarantee you those are pirated CDs. Personally, I'd be very wary of buying any Western CD/SACD from mainland China. Not that I haven't, but that was after I was able to physically examine the CD (a mainland Chinese issue of a George Winston CD). The hologram is a sign of the CD being from mainland China. If I am to buy a HDCD/DSD-remastered CD of a Western artist, I'd get the Hong Kong version since I can see from the label's website whether it was officially released and or not. Besides that, I know that HK has the studios, the engineers and all the necessary hardware/software to do the DSD-remastering. Going to the artist's officially website doesn't help since they generally don't account for regional versions.

I make a distinction between mainland China and Hong Kong because mainland Chinese CD/SACD is generally released only for that market and should state so on its packaging. The written Chinese language is different between China (simplfied Chinese) and HK (traditional Chinese), hence the different printing necessary.

This is just what I learn from dealing with Chinese/Hong Kong CD/SACD.

 

[Cai Campbell]

The best way to avoid ending up with Chinese counterfeits and/or improperly labeled product is to deal with a trusted, established vendor. I've purchased hundreds of titles from YesAsia.com and I give them very high marks.

 

[soundboy]

The best way to avoid ending up with Chinese counterfeits and/or improperly labeled product is to deal with a trusted, established vendor. I've purchased hundreds of titles from YesAsia.com and I give them very high marks.

Agree on both counts. Yesasia.com just received shipment on Naxos SACD titles.

Another e-tailer I recommend is Hong Kong's hifi-cd.com. Fast shipping and excellent service.

 

[Audi A3]

No, I have not and I guarantee you those are pirated CDs. Personally, I'd be very wary of buying any Western CD/SACD from mainland China. Not that I haven't, but that was after I was able to physically examine the CD (a mainland Chinese issue of a George Winston CD). The hologram is a sign of the CD being from mainland China. If I am to buy a HDCD/DSD-remastered CD of a Western artist, I'd get the Hong Kong version since I can see from the label's website whether it was officially released and or not. Besides that, I know that HK has the studios, the engineers and all the necessary hardware/software to do the DSD-remastering. Going to the artist's officially website doesn't help since they generally don't account for regional versions.

I make a distinction between mainland China and Hong Kong because mainland Chinese CD/SACD is generally released only for that market and should state so on its packaging. The written Chinese language is different between China (simplfied Chinese) and HK (traditional Chinese), hence the different printing necessary.

This is just what I learn from dealing with Chinese/Hong Kong CD/SACD.

Thank you.

The pictures are from a Roxette collectors homepage



He couldn't tell me anything about the disc's because he's so much of a collector, that the disc's are still sealed.

 

[haikubass]

I have never heard of a bootleg SACD, are there any?

Chris

There are... kinda. About a year ago I was despertely seeking for a reasonable priced NIN - The Downward Spiral SACD on eBay. Found several copies coming from Down Under area and went for one - big mistake. It looked *almost* exactly as the Universal DLX 2-disc version... BUT! When inserted into my player, the SACD disc (the bonus one is regular CD) read "CD" instead "SACD" on the display. Damn, the only thing it lacked was the trademark slipcase, but the disc itself looked unbelievably convincing....
I sent it back to meet its maker, claiming full refund and threating by reporting some kind piracy. I was told they're "going to check out with their supplier" and "item never returned" eventually - and that was it.