BRD-A Vs. BD-A

QuadraphonicQuad

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Joined
Oct 23, 2018
Messages
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Location
Nottingham, UK
I say, Blu Ray delivery of music is here to stay. At least it better until I croak.
My thought are the same. I like the the BRD-A format. It's easier than DVD-A to author/create discs (not that I do this anymore) and it accommodates higher sampling rates. What I find difficult to understand is why Sony didn't permit support for DSD bitstreams!

As an experiment, I recently tried adding DSD 'WavePack' encodes into a mux (using TSmuxer GUI) but they were rejected because they were 8-bit and not 24-bit.

Cheers
 
My thought are the same. I like the the BRD-A format. It's easier than DVD-A to author/create discs (not that I do this anymore) and it accommodates higher sampling rates. What I find difficult to understand is why Sony didn't permit support for DSD bitstreams!

As an experiment, I recently tried adding DSD 'WavePack' encodes into a mux (using TSmuxer GUI) but they were rejected because they were 8-bit and not 24-bit.

Cheers
Well, Blu-ray was primarily designed as a video format, so it doesn't make sense to add DSD...anyway the resolutions that Blu-ray can support outperforms standard DSD64.
TSmuxer will not recognize a DSD stream which is why your mux failed. In fact, I don't think muxing DSD with video is possible with current toolsets, unless someone wants to prove me wrong.
DVD-A is only hard to author because of the authoring software, not necessarily the complexity of the format. Blu-ray is far more complex.
 
My thought are the same. I like the the BRD-A format. It's easier than DVD-A to author/create discs (not that I do this anymore) and it accommodates higher sampling rates. What I find difficult to understand is why Sony didn't permit support for DSD bitstreams!

As an experiment, I recently tried adding DSD 'WavePack' encodes into a mux (using TSmuxer GUI) but they were rejected because they were 8-bit and not 24-bit.

Cheers
Well I find it pretty easy to author DVDA. BD authoring looks pretty tedious and I don't have any modern software to even attempt it, other than make an AVCHD.
 
That's not an actual format. All Blu-ray Discs are BD-V, require audio to be muxed into video, and use the same folder structure (BDMV).
My thinking, though I'm not authority by far. Then to me it gets further obfuscated by PABD "pure audio BD". I mean wth. With no video, how can that be? If only a simple menu displayed is that possible? I mean it is with DVDA, but I've never authored a BD so don't know if the concept of "stills" is allowed.
Well with AVCHD it is, but not really the same animal.
 
My thinking, though I'm not authority by far. Then to me it gets further obfuscated by PABD "pure audio BD". I mean wth. With no video, how can that be? If only a simple menu displayed is that possible? I mean it is with DVDA, but I've never authored a BD so don't know if the concept of "stills" is allowed.
Well with AVCHD it is, but not really the same animal.
H.264, which is what Blu-ray uses, is an intra-frame codec. This means it only records the changes between frames. If the underlying M2TS file just has a black screen, then the video part of the file will be extremely small.
PABDs use this "trick" and overlay a permanent menu with a still on top for navigation. This is done in Java. Very simple, anybody could do it at home provided they know a little bit of Java and know how to set up a Blu-ray Dev environment. No fancy-schmancy paid software needed, to my knowledge.
 
H.264, which is what Blu-ray uses, is an intra-frame codec. This means it only records the changes between frames. If the underlying M2TS file just has a black screen, then the video part of the file will be extremely small.
PABDs use this "trick" and overlay a permanent menu with a still on top for navigation. This is done in Java. Very simple, anybody could do it at home provided they know a little bit of Java and know how to set up a Blu-ray Dev environment. No fancy-schmancy paid software needed, to my knowledge.
Mr A, wonder if they'll ever try putting massive box sets on 4K via 100G discs! If a standard BD~A can hold up to the equivalent of 16 RBCDs in hi res stereo [48/24] I could only guesstimate how many Stereo or multichannel discs could fit on 100G 4K disc??????? Not that we're likely to find out any time soon!
 
H.264, which is what Blu-ray uses, is an intra-frame codec. This means it only records the changes between frames. If the underlying M2TS file just has a black screen, then the video part of the file will be extremely small.
PABDs use this "trick" and overlay a permanent menu with a still on top for navigation. This is done in Java. Very simple, anybody could do it at home provided they know a little bit of Java and know how to set up a Blu-ray Dev environment. No fancy-schmancy paid software needed, to my knowledge.
Interesting.
Well, being an old dumbass, the only Java I know is my morning coffee. lol. I programmed a lot in DOS and some in early Windows days. Bought the first two editions of VB for windows, struggled some with Borland C, C++. Wrote a lot of programs in VB for Excel to parse data for work, but I'm so far out of step now and don't have the drive or time to deep dive anymore.
 
Mr A, wonder if they'll ever try putting massive box sets on 4K via 100G discs! If a standard BD~A can hold up to the equivalent of 16 RBCDs in hi res stereo [48/24] I could only guesstimate how many Stereo or multichannel discs could fit on 100G 4K disc??????? Not that we're likely to find out any time soon!
If it ever happens, a classical label will do it first.
 
H.264, which is what Blu-ray uses, is an intra-frame codec. This means it only records the changes between frames. If the underlying M2TS file just has a black screen, then the video part of the file will be extremely small.
MPEG2 as used for DVD-Video is also an intra-frame codec and can have similarly tiny video. The problem is DVD-V doesn't have lossless multi channel audio codecs, they were unique to DVD-A.
PABDs use this "trick" and overlay a permanent menu with a still on top for navigation. This is done in Java. Very simple, anybody could do it at home provided they know a little bit of Java and know how to set up a Blu-ray Dev environment. No fancy-schmancy paid software needed, to my knowledge.
And DVD-V doesn't have Java either but I suspect there would be some other way of overlaying a menu on the minimal video.
 
To me DSD and SACD isn't required anymore. Give me a Blu-Ray any day. And I can alter the contents of a Blu-Ray by using Audacity as well. DSD requires expensive software to manipulate.
I don’t believe that DSD is superior to 24/96 PCM, although the one album I have in both (Fragile), the SACD sounds a lot brighter. Not to say I don’t adore most of my SACDs - I definitely do, but these days, it seems more like an affectation than a real difference.
 
If it ever happens, a classical label will do it first.
It's been done! There's almost 15 hours on the second disc, over 12 on the first at 24/192. Actually a lovely set and the pictures don't capture how extensive the book is.
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I don’t believe that DSD is superior to 24/96 PCM, although the one album I have in both (Fragile), the SACD sounds a lot brighter. Not to say I don’t adore most of my SACDs - I definitely do, but these days, it seems more like an affectation than a real difference.
Not inferior or superior. DSD is genuinely as full fidelity as HD PCM. Sony tried to create a different "digital language" for the exact same data set. In theory this would have led to consumers buying new AV receivers (with DSD converters) and all recording studios buying new audio interfaces wired for DSD and new DAW apps written for DSD.

In practice, everyone told them where to shove that! So they gave up and went right back to PCM when they introduced bluray medium.

Mastering work (for good or bad) is the difference you are hearing if the same album sounds different between formats. DSD isn't shrill and distorted vs PCM. Those Yes SACD releases have 'volume war' style hyped mastering. No fault of the DSD format. Fortunately DSD transcodes to PCM virtually losslessly. You can listen to the transcode with better PCM converters than you're likely to find available for DSD.

That's probably why no one has done the heavy lifting to adapt HDMI for DSD. That would also get into needing firmware hacks for stand alone disc players and AV receivers. There would be a lot of development work when you can just "liberate" the DSD program to PCM and listen in the fullest quality possible already. And we need our hackers to stay focused on liberating Atmos decoding right now. :D
 
That's probably why no one has done the heavy lifting to adapt HDMI for DSD. That would also get into needing firmware hacks for stand alone disc players and AV receivers. There would be a lot of development work when you can just "liberate" the DSD program to PCM and listen in the fullest quality possible already.
My Oppo 95 and 203 blu ray players both stream DSD from SACDs to my Arcam AVR31 amp, during playback the amp front panel display says DSD 2.8MHz. I think saying no one has done the heavy lifting to adapt HDMI for DSD is an exaggeration. It might not be well supported but it exists.
 
My Oppo 95 and 203 blu ray players both stream DSD from SACDs to my Arcam AVR31 amp, during playback the amp front panel display says DSD 2.8MHz. I think saying no one has done the heavy lifting to adapt HDMI for DSD is an exaggeration. It might not be well supported but it exists.
Fair enough!

Yeah it shouldn't even be heavy lifting to develop. Just impossible to snap your fingers as a consumer and make a device without the ability learn a new trick.
 
My Oppo 95 and 203 blu ray players both stream DSD from SACDs to my Arcam AVR31 amp, during playback the amp front panel display says DSD 2.8MHz. I think saying no one has done the heavy lifting to adapt HDMI for DSD is an exaggeration. It might not be well supported but it exists.
You’re absolutely right but, of course, OPPO Blu Ray players are no longer in production (and are virtually made of unobtainium). I’m so glad that I bought mine when I did.
 
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