Dolby Atmos - Speaker vs. Headphone playback

[quadrifonico]

If I understand your question, Dolby or Apple devices and headsets are really no different than regular headsets, it's the content that will be different. They put it behind a sort of paywall. ...Apple for sure.

There is plenty of binaural content out there (not on Apple) that is open source and any headset works. Just search Youtube for binaural.

Content? Different? How? That's precisely what I ask: if those are regular headphones that means that what you hear is plainly a software rendered illusion of spaciality; mind that I'm not judging I'm simply stating what it is. I commented your first post where you did not mention binaural. Binaural works with 2 channels like stereo.

 

[austinsignal]

Agreed. As mentioned up above, it's a controversial move on Apple's part. It creates big issues for mastering in Atmos. However, I do not think Apple is creating it's HRTF off of a 5.1 mixdown because that would sacrifice the height channels.

It’s commonly understood that Apple is using a 5.1 fold down to generate Apple Spatial for Apple headphones. Certainly the height information is embodied in the 5.1. Additionally, one uses the Dolby Renderer to generate 5.1 mp4 files - those are used to send to clients to review/approve mixes/masters. Those play Spatial audio over apple devices and headphones. Head tracking works too.

 

[austinsignal]

Content? Different? How? That's precisely what I ask: if those are regular headphones that means that what you hear is plainly a software rendered illusion of spaciality; mind that I'm not judging I'm simply stating what it is. I commented your first post where you did not mention binaural. Binaural works with 2 channels like stereo.

For any given track, fold downs for Apple Spatial and Dolby are different files. Both originate from the same master file (ADM BWF). So technically the content is different. They sound different. If using an Apple playback device with Apple headphones, you’ll get the Apple Spatial version. And, what you hear may change over time, as Apple is continually tweaking the firmware in your Airpods and how they fold the master down to Spatial. Then, if you’re listening on say, Tidal with any kind headphones, you’ll get Dolby Binaural. If you’re listening to an Apple playback device (eg iPhone) with non-Apple headphones, you’ll get Dolby Binaural. Spatial and Binaural will have the same musical content, but will sound quite different depending on what you’re listening on. There is endless debate as to which sounds better, and endless chatter about what Apple does to the Spatial ecosystems and how it changes over time.

 

[austinsignal]

Tons of caveats, but I’m really glad I went for mine last summer. I don’t think any other headphone solution really compares, except for perhaps the Sony 360 RA mixer software (but that doesn’t do Atmos AFAIK).

Be sure to check out the dedicated thread at head-fi (“Smyth Research Realiser A16”) - well over 15,000 posts!

Sent a DM!

 

[marpow]

I think I can participate in this big opinion thread from my own simple point of view.

I have all options of listening to Atmos at home. Apple4K set up correctly and purchased music with JRiver ripped files playback, all enjoyable. I do have a Tidal subscription also but don't seem to use it on the home Atmos rig.
For my occasional headphone use, walking and in gym, I use AMAZON BEATS wireless Atmos enabled.
They are never equal to the home rig but songs that play in Atmos via my iPhone 14 ProMax are good to the point I can hear a sense of the top of my head interacting with my right and left sides.
What I really like about the headphone listening is I concentrate more on the music and lyrics so that when I punch up the same on the home rig it helps me listen better to the big open field of the room.
I have learned a real lot from @PurpleMoustache he is very well versed in listening to music either by Apple/Tidal/iPhone. I trust his expertise a lot.

 

[PurpleMoustache]

I think I can participate in this big opinion thread from my own simple point of view.

I have all options of listening to Atmos at home. Apple4K set up correctly and purchased music with JRiver ripped files playback, all enjoyable. I do have a Tidal subscription also but don't seem to use it on the home Atmos rig.
For my occasional headphone use, walking and in gym, I use AMAZON BEATS wireless Atmos enabled.
They are never equal to the home rig but songs that play in Atmos via my iPhone 14 ProMax are good to the point I can hear a sense of the top of my head interacting with my right and left sides.
What I really like about the headphone listening is I concentrate more on the music and lyrics so that when I punch up the same on the home rig it helps me listen better to the big open field of the room.
I have learned a real lot from @PurpleMoustache he is very well versed in listening to music either by Apple/Tidal/iPhone. I trust his expertise a lot.

Aw thanks! I do my best!

 

[JimofMaine]

For any given track, fold downs for Apple Spatial and Dolby are different files. Both originate from the same master file (ADM BWF). So technically the content is different. They sound different. If using an Apple playback device with Apple headphones, you’ll get the Apple Spatial version. And, what you hear may change over time, as Apple is continually tweaking the firmware in your Airpods and how they fold the master down to Spatial. Then, if you’re listening on say, Tidal with any kind headphones, you’ll get Dolby Binaural. If you’re listening to an Apple playback device (eg iPhone) with non-Apple headphones, you’ll get Dolby Binaural. Spatial and Binaural will have the same musical content, but will sound quite different depending on what you’re listening on. There is endless debate as to which sounds better, and endless chatter about what Apple does to the Spatial ecosystems and how it changes over time.

Yes exactly except the part about non-Apple headphones getting Dolby Binaural. Until Apple implements AC4+IMS codec you will not get the Dolby rendered Binaural on any headsets, Apple or non-Apple. Here's an article that explains:

https://www.production-expert.com/p...ill-sound-different-on-apple-music?format=amp

 

[JimofMaine]

It’s commonly understood that Apple is using a 5.1 fold down to generate Apple Spatial for Apple headphones. Certainly the height information is embodied in the 5.1. Additionally, one uses the Dolby Renderer to generate 5.1 mp4 files - those are used to send to clients to review/approve mixes/masters. Those play Spatial audio over apple devices and headphones. Head tracking works too.

Can you point to any literature regarding 5.1 to generate Apple HRTF? Apple has the full access to the ADM metadata.

 

[MidiMagic]

Dolby is trying to sell a product. If they told you that it only really works when you buy at least 7 speakers, and several need to be installed in your ceiling, as well as a receiver, and probably a subwoofer, they would lose sales to those who are not willing to make that investment (i.e., most people). From Dolby's website:

That is exactly why we can no longer buy Dolby Pro Logic in a receiver. They want to sell the new product, not the old product with the expired patent. Their goal is something they can make money from. They don't care about compatibility with old recordings.

 

[austinsignal]

Yes exactly except the part about non-Apple headphones getting Dolby Binaural. Until Apple implements AC4+IMS codec you will not get the Dolby rendered Binaural on any headsets, Apple or non-Apple. Here's an article that explains:

https://www.production-expert.com/p...ill-sound-different-on-apple-music?format=amp

That’s 3 years old, and I believe that’s changed. LFE inclusion in Apple Spatial has changed too, as have object distance parameters in binaural renders, which I believe now are applied in the Spatial too. Or not. Or will be. Or used to be, but may be in the future. Or not. Maybe.

 

[jimfisheye]

As much as I think surround sound in a space is a thing and should remain a thing, I like the drive to make this work. It may be at growing stages level right now. The streaming spatial and binaural might sound different from each other as well as the master right now. But it's still the right direction.

The thing with tying listening to approved hardware and locking out controls and features otherwise is brutal and they are having no issues with that end of it whatsoever!

 

[humprof]

I'd completely forgotten about a post of mine from earlier this year, which highlights Ken Caillat's views on Dolby Atmos binaural for headphones:
https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/fo...claus-trelby-iaa-interview.35374/#post-749892