Dutton Epoch Announces 9 Surround Sound SACD Classical Music Releases (Nov 18, 2018)

[JonUrban]

Correct.

In my view the Sony SACD doesn't count as an issue of the original quad, so it's like it never came out for those who want to hear it. I do generally share the same priorities.

I thought I remembered that the Sony SACD was not a release of the original quad master but a new 5.1 mix that did not resemble the quad, which was amazing, at all. So can we assume that the D-V SACD will be the original quad and not the Sony 2000's mix?

 

[sjcorne]

I thought I remembered that the Sony SACD was not a release of the original quad master but a new 5.1 mix that did not resemble the quad, which was amazing, at all. So can we assume that the D-V SACD will be the original quad and not the Sony 2000's mix?

Correct! I compared the Sony SACD with a Q8 a few weeks ago and the difference is night and day. The Sony SACD is all upfront with nothing but echo in the rears.

Very excited about this release, did not think DV would go back and do something Sony already (incorrectly) did years ago.

 

[Larry Geller]

Ordered. This one is what quad is all about. Now, let them fix the E Power Biggs (not theirs, CBS').

 

[fredblue]

Correct.

In my view the Sony SACD doesn't count as an issue of the original quad, so it's like it never came out for those who want to hear it. I do generally share the same priorities.

*classical cretin alert!!*
..so i was just looking at this again and i'm confused!

the 2 Quad LPs (Concerto + Mandarin complete & Dance Suite) look like they would run in excess of 80 minutes.

the back of the Sony SACD says it was approx 68 minutes of music, so what did they omit?

..and as a follow on, what's on (or rather not on!) the new DV SACD..?
they can't have squeezed both entire Quads on one disc? or maybe they have!

hmm... i might have to order this before the next pop batch (guessing with Charlie?) happens! curiosity is killing this cat!

 

[ubertrout]

*classical cretin alert!!*
..so i was just looking at this again and i'm confused!

the 2 Quad LPs (Concerto + Mandarin complete & Dance Suite) look like they would run in excess of 80 minutes.

the back of the Sony SACD says it was approx 68 minutes of music, so what did they omit?

..and as a follow on, what's on (or rather not on!) the new DV SACD..?
they can't have squeezed both entire Quads on one disc? or maybe they have!

hmm... i might have to order this before the next pop batch (guessing with Charlie?) happens! curiosity is killing this cat!

The Dance Suite was not included as I recall on the Sony SACD, and it's not listed for the Dutton release either. Not a shock to remove the filler - the Dance Suite is nice but not essential. That said, it's disappointing that Dutton didn't include it as a SACD-only track. That might sound crazy, but they already do that on some of their own recordings, for instance: https://www.duttonvocalion.co.uk/proddetail.php?prod=CDLX7354

 

[surroundophile]

In case there is any doubt as to whether this is sourced from the Columbia quad or the Sony 5.1, I asked them yesterday, and here's their response:

Dear John,

It was sourced from an original, 1970’s Columbia quad master tape

Kind regards
Simon
Vocalion Ltd/Dutton Epoch Retail & Export Team

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: 27 November 2018 09:12
To: Mike Dutton; orders
Subject: Fw: Pierre Boulez Conducts Bartok: Concerto for Orchestra


From: John
Sent: Monday, November 26, 2018 6:59 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Pierre Boulez Conducts Bartok: Concerto for Orchestra

Hello,
I'm very interested in your latest release "Pierre Boulez Conducts Bartok: Concerto for Orchestra". Can you tell me if this was sourced from the original 1970's Columbia quadraphonic master tapes, or was it sourced from the 2000's remastered version on SACD ?

Thank you.

 

[4-earredwonder]

The Dance Suite was not included as I recall on the Sony SACD, and it's not listed for the Dutton release either. Not a shock to remove the filler - the Dance Suite is nice but not essential. That said, it's disappointing that Dutton didn't include it as a SACD-only track. That might sound crazy, but they already do that on some of their own recordings, for instance: https://www.duttonvocalion.co.uk/proddetail.php?prod=CDLX7354

Tricky, ubertrout and in multichannel no less. I'll have to add the Elgar to my list of must haves when I place an order for the Boulez Bartok disc and nice to know the latter was sourced from the original 70's QUAD analogue masters!

 

[ubertrout]

Finally got to listen. I've heard some people say the Bartok quad isn't really as discrete as people say, and that's simply nonsense - the mix is really aggressive, with four speakers playing off eachother in a way no modern release would dare. Highly recommended. The sound on the Sony SACD is slightly warmer and cleaner (the DV release is slightly brash, but still very good), but there's no comparison.

Speaking of the Sony, I compared the finale of the Concerto for Orchestra on both discs, and noticed something interesting. At the point where the piece gets quieter (at about 1:20) and there's stuff going on mostly in the rears in the Dutton quad release, the Sony just gets really quiet. It's almost as if the Sony mix buries the elements that are prominent in the rears of the quad mix - something I know they did on other SACDs as well. It's almost as if they just used the front channels of the quad mix.

 

[4-earredwonder]

Finally got to listen. I've heard some people say the Bartok quad isn't really as discrete as people say, and that's simply nonsense - the mix is really aggressive, with four speakers playing off eachother in a way no modern release would dare. Highly recommended. The sound on the Sony SACD is slightly warmer and cleaner (the DV release is slightly brash, but still very good), but there's no comparison.

Speaking of the Sony, I compared the finale of the Concerto for Orchestra on both discs, and noticed something interesting. At the point where the piece gets quieter (at about 1:20) and there's stuff going on mostly in the rears in the Dutton quad release, the Sony just gets really quiet. It's almost as if the Sony mix buries the elements that are prominent in the rears of the quad mix - something I know they did on other SACDs as well. It's almost as if they just used the front channels of the quad mix.

Do you think perhaps SONY used the Stereo Master tapes and just did an up mix for their 00 mch SACD, ubertrout? Sure sounds like it. I just ordered the Bartok with the last batch of D~V SACDs [Jan. 2019] and look forward to FINALLY hearing it in full blown QUAD.

I'm still trying to catch up playing the 20+ mch SACDs I recently purchased from UK's Presto Classical when they had their sale...and happy to report, not a clunker in the bunch!

 

[ubertrout]

Do you think perhaps SONY used the Stereo Master tapes and just did an up mix for their 00 mch SACD, ubertrout? Sure sounds like it. I just ordered the Bartok with the last batch of D~V SACDs [Jan. 2019] and look forward to FINALLY hearing it in full blown QUAD.

I'm still trying to catch up playing the 20+ mch SACDs I recently purchased from UK's Presto Classical when they had their sale...and happy to report, not a clunker in the bunch!

It's possible...I know with the Bernstein Planets, everyone was wondering where the organ was in the surround mix of "Neptune." There was speculation they'd only used the front channels of the quad mix.

 

[4-earredwonder]

It's possible...I know with the Bernstein Planets, everyone was wondering where the organ was in the surround mix of "Neptune." There was speculation they'd only used the front channels of the quad mix.

And they wondered why the format failed in the early 00's ...... Incompetence! And this from the inventor of the format!

The Bernstein PLANETS sounds like another possible [probable] choice QUAD reissue from Dutton Vocalion.

 

[ubertrout]

And they wondered why the format failed in the early 00's ...... Incompetence! And this from the inventor of the format!

The Bernstein PLANETS sounds like another possible [probable] choice QUAD reissue from Dutton Vocalion.

I wouldn't complain. Especially if they provided more of the "A Tribute to Benjamin Britten" Quad LP as the coupling.

Incidentally, this is kind of cool - Bernstein improvising his own version of a Pluto movement live: http://radio.wosu.org/post/missing-...nstein-improvise-pluto-unpredictable#stream/0

 

[sjcorne]

Sounds fantastic!

 

[J. PUPSTER]

I was selfishly not including any dates that were Classical only.

Well, I have purchased my share of classical...trying to force myself to listen...and I really just cannot do it.

I think I’ve got one more order in me before the next release, including that Boulez Conducts Bartok that Jonathan likes so much (he sold me on that one 🥳) Talk about your “Hard Charging Party Pack”🤣

 

[ar surround]

I think I’ve got one more order in me before the next release, including that Boulez Conducts Bartok that Jonathan likes so much (he sold me on that one 🥳) Talk about your “Hard Charging Party Pack”🤣

Yes, Jonathan also sold me on the Boulez Conducts Bartok. It should get here in a few days or so. I sampled a few bits and pieces of the album before ordering and liked what I heard.

 

[The56Kid]

Yes, Jonathan also sold me on the Boulez Conducts Bartok. It should get here in a few days or so. I sampled a few bits and pieces of the album before ordering and liked what I heard.

Damn, if Jonathan recommended it to that degree, I might need to get this title too!

 

[edisonbaggins]

Damn, if Jonathan recommended it to that degree, I might need to get this title too!

It's in my cart. Researching a few more too.

 

[sjcorne]

Yes, Jonathan also sold me on the Boulez Conducts Bartok. It should get here in a few days or so. I sampled a few bits and pieces of the album before ordering and liked what I heard.

Damn, if Jonathan recommended it to that degree, I might need to get this title too!

It's in my cart. Researching a few more too.

...and in a few days time, there'll be an angry mob with pitchforks at my door, lol.

In all seriousness, I hope you guys enjoy it. It's an essential quad title, IMO. An orchestra mic'd and recorded specifically for quad, mixed by the same guy who did Bitches Brew. What's not to like?

 

[J. PUPSTER]

...and in a few days time, there'll be an angry mob with pitchforks at my door, lol.

In all seriousness, I hope you guys enjoy it. It's an essential quad title, IMO. An orchestra mic'd and recorded specifically for quad, mixed by the same guy who did Bitches Brew. What's not to like?

"Hard Charging Party Pack"