Having a problem with DVD-A created from Quad mlp

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boondocks

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OK so apparently I don't know what is going on. I just burned some old quad to DVDA and the rear channels will NOT play on my BDP-80.
All 4 channels play fine on the BDP-103. How can that be? ...and is that related somehow to the Onkyo? Because the BDP-80 used to play quad just fine, at least with my older Onkyo.
 

boondocks

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Just spent a half hour on the phone with Onkyo support, the guy really doesn't have a clue. Had me put it on All channel stereo, and when the rears worked he thought that was proof the receiver was working correctly. Sigh. I don't really blame him, it's probably so far outside his reference that he's flying blind.
So I had him escalate it and we'll see what happens. Maybe it's me that's clueless, IDK.
 

LuvMyQuad

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Ive recently been down this rabbit hole with my son's Pioneer AVR (pretty much the same platform as an Onkyo these days). All of his music is played from network stored FLAC. Any true 4.0 FLAC would play front channels only. I added a silent center and a silent LFE to every 4.0 and 5.0 track in the collection. The problem is gone.

I say "true" 4.0 because the disks from AF and Dutton do typically contain a silent channel. Apparently the decode chip in question will play any 5 or 6 channel format correctly, but it wont do straight 4.0.

I used Homers MMH to do this. It was relatively fast and easy. Now when I rip 4.0 I add the two empty channels as a matter of routine.
 

boondocks

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Ive recently been down this rabbit hole with my son's Pioneer AVR (pretty much the same platform as an Onkyo these days). All of his music is played from network stored FLAC. Any true 4.0 FLAC would play front channels only. I added a silent center and a silent LFE to every 4.0 and 5.0 track in the collection. The problem is gone.

I say "true" 4.0 because the disks from AF and Dutton do typically contain a silent channel. Apparently the decode chip in question will play any 5 or 6 channel format correctly, but it wont do straight 4.0.

I used Homers MMH to do this. It was relatively fast and easy. Now when I rip 4.0 I add the two empty channels as a matter of routine.
I hear ya.
....and inserting a C and/or Lfe works of course, but in cases where I have an intact ISO I'd rather not deconstruct/reconstruct it.
It has been posted that Onkyo has done firmware updates to address the problem, but mine is not one of them I now know. I guess my model is too "low brow" for much bother. lol.
Still, I'm hoping they'll do the right thing.
 

atrocity

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I recently "upgraded" one of my Odroid C2s to the latest version of LibreELEC (i.e., Kodi) and have learned that it won't do 4.0 properly any longer. A 24/96 4.0 file plays as 2.0 and at half speed! The companion C2 that's still running the older version works fine. Adding silent channels to create a 5.1 works (haven't tried 5.0 yet) but having to do that annoys me. I posted on the LibreELEC forums, but never got a response.

Tempted to get an Asus Tinker Board just to see if it's only an issue with the C2.
 

ssully

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This can change from model to model within a brand. I have two Denon AVRs. One can play 4.0 files correctly. One (the more recent model) can't; it outputs just the front L R.

LuvMyQuad, do you know a batch method for adding a silent C channel to multiple 4.0 files at once?
 

LuvMyQuad

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Yes. Homer's MMH package is a batch method. Select the root directory. The program will scan all files in it and filter out only the ones that are 4.0. You can then choose to add either a center or center + LFE. You can also filter for 5.0 files and add a silent LFE. There are several other conversion options as well. It worked great for me.

LINK HERE
 

jimfisheye

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The bottom line is there are media players (both hardware and software) that turned out to only be programmed to recognize either 2.0 or 5.1 correctly.
Adding the digital zero silent C and Lfe channels to a 4.0 file set is the workaround if you want/need to keep using said media players. If you use a hardware player setup, purchasing new gear to get away from this faux pas would be expensive... so this means you!

The con to that is your DVDA image will be larger (those digital zero channels take storage space on physical disc formats - they don't nearly zero out like with FLAC files). That means you will be burning a few 2 disc sets whereas it would have fit on 1 with 4.0 files.
 

LuvMyQuad

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My prediction is that more and more newer gear will continue to omit 4.0 processing. There are very few modern titles actually being released as 4.0, if any at all. Even the 4.0 AF and DV SACD titles already include at least one silent channel, and though I'm not absolutely positive, I think 5 channel formats (ie 4.1 or 5.0) get processed correctly. I guess I don't understand how the system knows how to process a 5.0 or 4.1 format (like is it LFE info or CC info?), but it gets it right, I am also unsure if the problem affects non-PCM based disk playback either. 4.0 DTS or MLP may process correctly. Its only FLAC and/or WAV that I had a problem with.

Nearly all the titles that I ran into problems with on my sons rig were true Quad 4.0 transfers from SQ, CD-4, Q8, or Q4. Since I don't play disks anymore and convert everything to FLAC, there is no downside for me to make everything 5.1 or 2.0. I view it as future-proofing the collection.
 

boondocks

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Why does my Onkyo receiver not have a problem with 4.0 playback from my OPPO BDP-103 but does with my BDP-80?
Surely the 103 must be compensating somehow?
Anyway like I said before, my previous Onkyo plays quad just fine from my BDP-80. ...or at least it did when I took it down and hooked up the newer one.
I realize more and more of you would rather just have all music files available digitally. That's fine. But if I devoted an hour a day it would probably take me years to do and I'm not getting any younger. lol.
Anyway I'm old school and prefer physical media. I actually look at stills and video content on DVDA. Some of it stinks, but some has hidden gems.
 

LuvMyQuad

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Why does my Onkyo receiver not have a problem with 4.0 playback from my OPPO BDP-103 but does with my BDP-80?
Surely the 103 must be compensating somehow?
Anyway like I said before, my previous Onkyo plays quad just fine from my BDP-80. ...or at least it did when I took it down and hooked up the newer one.
I realize more and more of you would rather just have all music files available digitally. That's fine. But if I devoted an hour a day it would probably take me years to do and I'm not getting any younger. lol.
Anyway I'm old school and prefer physical media. I actually look at stills and video content on DVDA. Some of it stinks, but some has hidden gems.
what exactly are you playing that causes the issue on your bdp-80. what format? Are you sure of the number of channels it contains? Is the bdp-80 set to convert to PCM ahead of the AVR but the 103 does not?
 

boondocks

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what exactly are you playing that causes the issue on your bdp-80. what format? Are you sure of the number of channels it contains? Is the bdp-80 set to convert to PCM ahead of the AVR but the 103 does not?
Quad
4....exactly 4.
Tried it both ways, bitstream and pcm, no change.
Also both use HDMI, the Onkyo has no mch analog inputs.
 

LuvMyQuad

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Quad
4....exactly 4.
Tried it both ways, bitstream and pcm, no change.
Also both use HDMI, the Onkyo has no mch analog inputs.
is it from a commercial disk? an SACD? a DVDA (MPL)? FLAC? something home brewed? what is the actual format?
 

boondocks

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Oh. It's a DVDA, mlp encoded, from one of our friends. But I have made my own DVDA with DiscWelder and it does the same. The BDP-80 plays virtually everything, even having no problems with SACD-R.
today I'm going to dig a little deeper, but so far it's not looking good.
 

ssully

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Yes. Homer's MMH package is a batch method. Select the root directory. The program will scan all files in it and filter out only the ones that are 4.0. You can then choose to add either a center or center + LFE. You can also filter for 5.0 files and add a silent LFE. There are several other conversion options as well. It worked great for me.

LINK HERE

D'oh! Perfect, thanks.
 

ssully

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Oh. It's a DVDA, mlp encoded, from one of our friends. But I have made my own DVDA with DiscWelder and it does the same. The BDP-80 plays virtually everything, even having no problems with SACD-R.
today I'm going to dig a little deeper, but so far it's not looking good.

Just a guess, but check the HDMI Audio setting on your two Oppo players, and see if they are different.

Audio Format Setup--> HDMI Audio

 

DuncanS

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I'd add then using Garry's (HomerJAU) Music Media Helper, its an option under Audio Remix Music Media Helper download
Why does my Onkyo receiver not have a problem with 4.0 playback from my OPPO BDP-103 but does with my BDP-80?
Surely the 103 must be compensating somehow?
Anyway like I said before, my previous Onkyo plays quad just fine from my BDP-80. ...or at least it did when I took it down and hooked up the newer one.
I realize more and more of you would rather just have all music files available digitally. That's fine. But if I devoted an hour a day it would probably take me years to do and I'm not getting any younger. lol.
Anyway I'm old school and prefer physical media. I actually look at stills and video content on DVDA. Some of it stinks, but some has hidden gems.
The Oppo BDP-103 is HDMI 1.4, the BDP-80 is HDMI 1.3, so I would suspect that the new Onkyo isn't behaving properly with an HDMI 1.3 datastream.
 

boondocks

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Just a guess, but check the HDMI Audio setting on your two Oppo players, and see if they are different.

Audio Format Setup--> HDMI Audio

Changing both to lpcm or bitstream you mean? Makes no difference either way for either player.
 

boondocks

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I'd add then using Garry's (HomerJAU) Music Media Helper, its an option under Audio Remix Music Media Helper download

The Oppo BDP-103 is HDMI 1.4, the BDP-80 is HDMI 1.3, so I would suspect that the new Onkyo isn't behaving properly with an HDMI 1.3 datastream.
I'm not quite sure what you mean...the 103 DOES play the quad with the newer receiver, the 80 currently does not, although it certainly did with my previous receiver.
I'm tempted to dig out my old Samsung HD841 and see what happens. Of course as a double check, I still have the older Onkyo, I just really really don't want to hook it up just to take it back down again. PITA in my audio cabinet.
Can't use the 841, my Onkyo doesn't have analog in, only my pc receiver does.
 

LuvMyQuad

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I'm not quite sure what you mean...the 103 DOES play the quad with the newer receiver, the 80 currently does not, although it certainly did with my previous receiver.
I'm tempted to dig out my old Samsung HD841 and see what happens. Of course as a double check, I still have the older Onkyo, I just really really don't want to hook it up just to take it back down again. PITA in my audio cabinet.
Can't use the 841, my Onkyo doesn't have analog in, only my pc receiver does.
He is saying that since the 80 is built with an older HDMI spec than the 103, it may do something different than what the new AVR is expecting. The older AVRs likely had older HDMI specs as well, which is why they worked with the 80.

I thought they were all backward compatible actually.
 
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