I hate to say "I told you so" but.....

[leevitalone1]

I'm no fan of Sony's politics. I think they have led the way in the industry with some great products like the Walkman and the floppy disc camera (Mavica) which were great in their time. I even think the SACD was a great product that gave us 5.1 as well as stereo CD on the same disc.

I hate the way they ganged up on DVD-A, the way they help begat then torpedo the DualDisc. I especially hate the way they dropped SACD once they had helped to tank DVD-A.

I also dislike (though can't argue with their thinking) the fact that they own movie studios and could withold many titles from being released on HD-DVD, thus limiting the market penetration of the format that at the time was far superior to theirs.

Even with all of that (and many more), I still like Blu-Ray. Sure, I'm a latest and greatest type of guy, but once I got used to watching HD-DVD and Blu-Ray discs, it was hard to go back to DVD, even though I have great players that upscale existing DVDs. They may be close, but on a large projection screen, there is no comparison.

I also don't think that Blu-Ray is "dead". What Blu-Ray needs is cheaper software. The average Joe is not going to pay $25 - $35 for a movie he can get on DVD for $14.99. If the price of the discs goes down, the format will last. It's as simple as that.

This Christmas season will see a large push with players going from $99-$199 (cheapo players, but players non the less). Everyone seems to be buying these flat screen 16x9 TVs, and there is no question that the BD discs make these look great.

DVD is not going away by a long shot, but I don't think BD is either. If it does, than that will end the HD deal, as the world economy will not be able to handle ANOTHER format coming along - at least for 10 or so years.

I agree with you here on sony's ethics, or lack of. and for what they didto high rez audio, especially dvd-audio. If not for good video they offer I
'd have nothing sony. BR is far from over. I say with the cost of BR decks going down and big tv prices falling, and the 2/17/09 changes will see a demand for more BR like it of not, and I do not! still po over hd dvd/dvbd-a sacd

 

[Bob Squires Jr]

I have 3 BD Recorders for the computer, no video player yet but I think the Blu-Ray is excellent for storing information
and the prices of the blanks are coming down, and semi-sort-of quickly. Look at the prices of DVD+R Dual Layer discs.
A year and a half ago they were 3 discs for $39.00. Now I can get them for $20.00 for 25 if not better.
(Hell, my first recordable CD was $25.00 for one disc, and the recorder... a whole 1X with no RW was $1200.00! )
As for HD, many people don't have HDTVs yet but it will take time.
Once they shut off the standard over the air signals and go straight digital... and adding the prices coming down,
more households will be picking up an HDTV or 2 or 3 if for nothing else but the new tuners.
I have one HDTV (42 inch... hey I have a small house! ) and it's hooked up to Dish Network's HD system and it's pretty stunning.
Most demos I've seen of HDTV and BD were very nice as well
But, the economy being what it is, the switch may not come as fast
and I think standard DVD has a few years before it dies off for some invisi-ray disc
that has 30 layers, 22.1 sound and holds the entire Doctor Who series on one side... in hologram!
As stated before, you just have to hope the powers that be don't kill it off before it has a shot at taking hold.
As for HD-DVD, you can get a hell of a lot of them cheap on ebay!

Ahhh... us creatures and our toys!!

-Bob

 

[Old Quad Guy]

I’ll probably get a Blu-Ray player eventually, most likely sooner than later. I don’t see any point in buying regular DVDs anymore when there’s a higher resolution format available. But there’s also no point in buying these higher resolution video formats if the movie studios are not going to go back to the original movie negatives and restore the prints and sound to give the absolute best version possible. This doesn’t seem to be a problem with new movies, they look and sound killer (by 2008 standards). But even movies from the 1990’s don’t look so good at all in High Def. Some High Def movies look like they either came from a bad video transfer or are only an up convert of a regular DVD. Perhaps if enough people buy Blu-ray players and demand great picture and sound it will be a great for movie preservation. I understand “The Godfather” movies were restored properly going back to the original sources and with the people who originally worked on the film to begin with. This is the way to go with old films if the movie studios are smart. That’s a big IF.

Has Blu-ray finally got its specs finalized? I notice at Amazon a lot of people bitching about how certain Blu-ray discs won’t play on their players. Perhaps this is the price one has to pay for being an early adopter of this technology. This reminds me how certain SACDs will play fine in one player but skip in another unit. Is Blu-ray the end all be all of High resolution video / sound? How long will it be until Super HDTV comes in with twice the resolution of regular HDTV? The answer: Just as soon as you’ve replaced your regular DVD movie collection with standard Blu-Ray discs.

I was at Best Buy the other day and noticed a huge Blu-Ray sign and rows and rows of Blu-ray discs. This gave me a horrible flashback (too much past Acid indulgence? ) reminding me of the huge Laserdisc sign and rows and rows of Laserdiscs discs at the video store only 16 years ago. I bought “Goldfinger” on Laserdisc at that time. Then I bought it again on regular DVD in the 3 James Bond box sets that ended up costing about $300 for all three only 8 years ago around 2000. This was supposedly properly remasterd. If I buy this on Blu-ray will this be the end of it or will a better format come out yet again in the near future? When I buy Blu-ray it will be with the understanding that it is either a Dead format or will one day become one as we have no idea if Blu-ray will replace standard DVD or if Sony will abandoned Blu-Ray for another format. Until then, I suppose it’s best to just enjoy it for what it is.

I also want to see these new Blu-Ray players have proper backwards compatibility with DVD-A and SACD. I don’t think that’s too much to ask for considering DVD-Audio and SACD are still great formats. DVD-Audio is still perfectly great for music, especially when put together with a CD / DVD-A combo package.

 

[dobyblue]

But there’s also no point in buying these higher resolution video formats if the movie studios are not going to go back to the original movie negatives and restore the prints and sound to give the absolute best version possible. This doesn’t seem to be a problem with new movies, they look and sound killer (by 2008 standards). But even movies from the 1990’s don’t look so good at all in High Def. Some High Def movies look like they either came from a bad video transfer or are only an up convert of a regular DVD. Perhaps if enough people buy Blu-ray players and demand great picture and sound it will be a great for movie preservation. I understand “The Godfather” movies were restored properly going back to the original sources and with the people who originally worked on the film to begin with. This is the way to go with old films if the movie studios are smart. That’s a big IF.

Much like DVD it will be a win some lose some situation. Look at the original Godfather Trilogy on DVD, absolutely ghastly.

Is Blu-ray the end all be all of High resolution video / sound? How long will it be until Super HDTV comes in with twice the resolution of regular HDTV? The answer: Just as soon as you’ve replaced your regular DVD movie collection with standard Blu-Ray discs.

Well, it's the end all for audio because it matches the master quality - until Hollywood moves away from 24/48 for dialogue and foley, which given that it puts them in a position to edit and store over twice as much data isn't likely, it's hardly likely we'll see any improvements on the audio front. For video the next step would be uncompressed 2K video...or 36-bit colour, etc. However last year at Panasonic Hollywood Labs they had a 100+" screen. It was split between a DMP-BD30 displaying Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer and the uncompressed 2K master. None of the people present were able to tell where the split screen line was.

I was at Best Buy the other day and noticed a huge Blu-Ray sign and rows and rows of Blu-ray discs. This gave me a horrible flashback (too much past Acid indulgence? ) reminding me of the huge Laserdisc sign and rows and rows of Laserdiscs discs at the video store only 16 years ago. I bought “Goldfinger” on Laserdisc at that time. Then I bought it again on regular DVD in the 3 James Bond box sets that ended up costing about $300 for all three only 8 years ago around 2000. This was supposedly properly remasterd. If I buy this on Blu-ray will this be the end of it or will a better format come out yet again in the near future? When I buy Blu-ray it will be with the understanding that it is either a Dead format or will one day become one as we have no idea if Blu-ray will replace standard DVD or if Sony will abandoned Blu-Ray for another format. Until then, I suppose it’s best to just enjoy it for what it is.

Agreed on the final sentiment. I'm not going to run out and replace "Welcome to the Dollhouse" when it comes out on Blu-ray, but I will replace Gladiator for example. You make decisions based on your financial means as well I guess - some people aren't going to care less how much they spend on their media...I do. But here's another point, there are 18 patent holders in Blu-ray technology. Panasonic is one of them, they do all the encodes for Fox and Disney. Panasonic are a massive corporation, as is Time Warner, Disney Corporation, Samsung, Pioneer, Sharp, JVC and all the other patent holders. I don't understand anyone suggesting SOny shutting down Blu-ray Disc as a possible scenario, at least not any time within the next 8 years. The PS3 runs games from Blu-ray Disc. The lines installed to produce Blu-ray Discs cost millions of dollars, particularly at SonyDADC where the majority of lines are installed. With SACD they were run on DVD lines. No biggie to back out of. Blu-ray, totally different story. They also only own 1 movie studio, were they to stop supporting Blu-ray, that still leaves 20th Century Fox, Disney/Pixar/Buena Vista/Touchstone, Warner Brothers/HBO/New Line Cinema, Paramount/Dreamworks Animation, Universal Pictures/Dreamworks, Lions Gate Films, UA/MGM, etc., etc. I think the chances of Blu-ray being dropped are incredibly slim. We're seeing several titles pushing sales of a million units, which is ahead of where DVD was in its lifetime at the 30 month mark.

I also want to see these new Blu-Ray players have proper backwards compatibility with DVD-A and SACD. I don’t think that’s too much to ask for considering DVD-Audio and SACD are still great formats. DVD-Audio is still perfectly great for music, especially when put together with a CD / DVD-A combo package.

I agree, it's not too much to ask, but those two formats are certainly still niche formats and as such you don't see them on many DVD players, so you probably won't see them on many Blu-ray players. Denon and Oppo both have announced universal Blu-ray Disc players, perhaps Pioneer will be next. I wouldn't expect to see one from Sony (no DVD-A support) or Panasonic (no SACD support) any time soon.

 

[Guy Robinson]

I also want to see these new Blu-Ray players have proper backwards compatibility with DVD-A and SACD. I don’t think that’s too much to ask for considering DVD-Audio and SACD are still great formats. DVD-Audio is still perfectly great for music, especially when put together with a CD / DVD-A combo package.

From what I have seen, I think the only one that regards a BR player as needing SACD and DVD-A capability is Oppo. To most other manufacturers producing BR players those other 2 formats are dead and not really even considered when talking about a BD player. I myself still don't see the big issue with this. I run an Oppo 980H for SACD and DVD-A via HDMI to my receiver. The Blu-Ray player runs via HDMI as well. It's a single button on the receiver to move back and forth between the 2 players and they are both so thin that they stack on top of each other and really take up no more space than a single larger player. Now I don't have to worry about a single Universal player for everything. I already had the 980H as well so the incremental cost was around $300 for the BD player. Much less I am assuming than the new Oppo BR Player will be.

 

[dobyblue]

From what I have seen, I think the only one that regards a BR player as needing SACD and DVD-A capability is Oppo. To most other manufacturers producing BR players those other 2 formats are dead and not really even considered when talking about a BD player.

Well there is the Denon flagship player coming out in January to match their flagship Pre/Pro - it's $3,800.

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50062

Balanced stereo outputs, 32/192 processing, Blu-ray, SACD, DVD-Audio, Denon Link 4th gen, HDMI, CD, etc., etc., etc.

I'm guessing if you spend $15,000 on the Pre/Pro, $3,800 is no problem. But, if the Pre/Pro completely supports HDMI then your player is just going to be a transport. Hmm....

 

[Guy Robinson]

Well there is the Denon flagship player coming out in January to match their flagship Pre/Pro - it's $3,800.

This totally baffles me. People with this much money to spend would no doubt have a very good receiver that does the latest HDMI and audio codecs. Therefore they would be using the player as a transport. How much more are you going to get for all this extra money? I already have excellent AQ and PQ for a lot less money. I guess it's the same as anything else. It's that extra 5% (that you may or may not be able to see and hear) that costs an extra 95%.....or more in this case.....

 

[atrocity]

http://www.dvdfile.com/article/are-the-holidays-blu-13056

I think it's about as official as it can get: To the extent that any format is truly "here to stay", Blu-ray is.

 

[Kazaam]

Now picture a disc like “Ten” - give me the album in high resolution stereo and surround sound, give me the videos from that album in high resolution stereo and surround sound and the video in HD where the source permits, give me some of the unplugged performance, or a performance around the time of the album, interviews, access to downloadable content if something else comes available (high rez mixes of the B-sides like Yellow Ledbetter) so I don’t have to double dip (BD-Live), etc. Give me the CD in there too for $19.99 and what Blu-ray can do for Audio is this – bring high resolution music to the masses.

That does sound pretty awesome when you put it that way. Basically, a DVD-Audio with hi-rez 5.1 surround plus enough room left over for lots of meaningful extras. Done right, it would be kinda like an MVI that doesn't suck. I'd love to be able to stop by Best Buy right now and pick up THAT version of "Ten"!!!!

 

[Felix E. Martinez]

The Dark Knight Blu has sold 2 million units and counting, which is *DOUBLE* the DVD killer app from 1999 - The Matrix. This format has legs...

 

[BananaSlug]

It does look good for blu-ray now. But, I guess that means that I'll have to wait until next year to get a decent player for under $100.

Now, if the next Britney Spears could just see fit to make a 5.1 Blu-ray album that comes out of nowhere and sells 10 million copies we'll be back in business.

 

[bmoura]

It does look good for blu-ray now. But, I guess that means that I'll have to wait until next year to get a decent player for under $100.

Now, if the next Britney Spears could just see fit to make a 5.1 Blu-ray album that comes out of nowhere and sells 10 million copies we'll be back in business.

The upcoming Oppo Blu-Ray player that also handles SACD, DVD-A, CD and DVD Video could be the ticket for the folks here at QuadQuad !

 

[dobyblue]

That does sound pretty awesome when you put it that way. Basically, a DVD-Audio with hi-rez 5.1 surround plus enough room left over for lots of meaningful extras. Done right, it would be kinda like an MVI that doesn't suck. I'd love to be able to stop by Best Buy right now and pick up THAT version of "Ten"!!!!

So would I...but it looks like we're not going to get hirez at all.

https://www.pearljam.com/news/pearl-jam-announces-reissue-band’s-debut-album-ten

New announcement for this one. Remixed and remastered album the way Pearl Jam originally wanted it to sound as well as re-issues of the old one...plus a DVD of unplugged with 5.1 surround, plus all kinds of extra goodies...$140 from Pearl Jam's website.

Shame, this would have been a good one. They aren't even putting the vinyl over 2LPs, but rather issuing each version on 1LP. 45rpm 4LP set would be nice for this one.

 

[splinter7]

From the ap wires - Blu Ray is OK

By PETER SVENSSON
AP Technology Writer


AP Photo/Jae C. Hong

Interactive
Consumer Electronics Show



LAS VEGAS (AP) -- The Blu-ray disc, the high-definition successor to the DVD, was one of the few products that did well in the just-ended holiday season, with sales tripling from the previous year.

The figures were released this week at the International Consumer Electronics Show, which last year was the scene of what proved to be a decisive victory for Blu-ray over a rival format, HD-DVD.

"It turned out to be a phenomenal year for Blu-ray," said Tom Adams of Adams Media Research

 

[Guy Robinson]

It must have been all the discs I bought in the fourth quarter.