neil wilkes
2K Club - QQ Super Nova
Please post your comments, thoughts and observations.
The more detail the better.
The more detail the better.
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Music DVD Poll John Lennon - Lennon Legend
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Savageone79
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Good DTS mix especially for such older material. Some songs are just so-so for me though. Overall a good package is you like his music.
The surround sound mixes are surprisingly interesting, considering Lennon actually liked mono!
There are often background vocals, strings and the "we all shine on" chorus in "Instant Krma" in the surrounds. Great thing is also the PCM track.
There are often background vocals, strings and the "we all shine on" chorus in "Instant Krma" in the surrounds. Great thing is also the PCM track.
Although some have quibbled about certain videos as being contrived(or even altered), I was pleasantly surprised by the surround mix, which is quite good for the material! Indeed, these mixes are fun to listen to, which is not(for me)the case with the stereo remixed CD's Yoko oversaw. Blech! But here, it's done very well, with logic and good sense. A '9'...
ED
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I love the surround mixes on this and the music speaks for itself.
A "10".
A "10".
Wow another i had not voted on, better than i was expecting with this and the McCartney set we have two very good post Beatles surround albums. Makes you wish they would tap the motherload for more than just Love
I've Demo'd both this Lennon DVD and the McCartney Years DVDs (in surround, of course) to several people and they've been so knocked out by them they bought them both pretty soon after!
markshan
1K Club - QQ Shooting Star
I hated the mix for Instant Karma but liked almost every other mix. #9 Dream is my favorite solo Lennon song and the mix does it justice. I liked the mixes from Double Fantasy, but the vocals seemed to have a harsh sheen to them, which I expected to carry through to the Milk and Honey stuff but didn't. I liked the unfaded endings on Stand By Me and at least one other. IIRC, Give Piece a Chance was recorded to two track in the hotel room, so I feel fairly certain it is an upmix, but it was pretty effective with the guitars more in the front and the hand claps more in the rear. It lines up with what you are seeing. The Happy Xmas video was really powerful. The Starting Over video was very well done. The #9 Dream video was awful. I give this collection an eight, would be a nine of the vocals on Starting Over sounded better.
I wish Lennon's solo stuff as a whole was stronger. People talk about how McCartney needed Lennon's edge, I think this collection proves that they each benefited from the other. It wasn't the one way street some make it out to be.
I wish Lennon's solo stuff as a whole was stronger. People talk about how McCartney needed Lennon's edge, I think this collection proves that they each benefited from the other. It wasn't the one way street some make it out to be.
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I agree the Lennon-McCartney (or McCartney-Lennon!) songs are incredible, I think if you look at the 'troubled' song writing partnerships the collaboration produces better music than the individuals do, I think Jagger-Richards is a good example, IMHO their solo stuff just doesn't touch their combined effects.
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Totally agree. Sometimes, we're hesitant to critique any of the individual Beatles' as they're SUCH ICONS, but in reality, where Lennon was acerbic, McCartney had a sweeter, more melodic tendency but together they were indeed a potent DYNAMIC DUO.....THE perfect balance:counterbalance approach! IMO, Band on the Run was McCartney's solo masterpiece and Lennon's solo albums, with of course some exceptions {Imagine/Plastic Ono Band], were more biting and less melodic.
Your Jagger~Richards comparison is also apt. Together.....GENIUS....APART.......meh! What's your take on the WHO?
Guys, we got WAY off-topic in this poll thread, unnecessarily so.
I will be moving all posts that do not directly relate to the "Lennon Legend" DVD to its own thread, and I do ask that you stay on-topic from here on out.
kthanx
I will be moving all posts that do not directly relate to the "Lennon Legend" DVD to its own thread, and I do ask that you stay on-topic from here on out.
kthanx
I gave this an 8 back in the day was surprised how discrete some of it is much more adventurous than Sgt Pepper.
Videos we a bit of there time
Videos we a bit of there time
I found a post I created over at SHF about this disc, from 2003!!!
http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/lennon-legend-5-1-mixes.24682/#post-429575
The thread over there has been closed, so copied and pasted it over here. Heck, I wrote it!
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I spent some time listening (and looking) at the DTS mixes on this release. Here's what I found:
Imagine: Starts with Piano solo in center. Johns vocal in center, echoed in fronts. Rear only piano and full orchestra. No vocals ever in the rears. Nice Mix.
Instant Karma: John again solid in the center, reverbed in the fronts and rears. Handclaps in the rears. It's cool to hear JLs vocal if you isolate the center channel, as there is no reverb, and you can clearly hear his vocal track - Something I never heard before so clear!
Mother: Opening bells in the four corners, not in the center. This tune is mostly stereo centric, with the fronts doing almost everything but the reverbs. This is probably a nice choice for this song.
Jealous Guy: John is back in the center channel. Rears have no vocal, but again the orchestration. It really stands out here, instead of being lost in a stereo mix.
Power to the People: The intro to this one is cool. All 5 main channels have the chorus of voices singing the 4 "Power to the Peoples", then the center goes to music only, the fronts get heavy and the rears with a solid reverb.
Cold Turkey: John again in the center, clear as a bell and no reverb, which is sent to the fronts. Lotsa bass on this one.
Love: John is only in the fronts here, with the center used as a filler with the track and only a slight hint of the vocal. The rears are mostly ambiance.
Mind Games: The many layers of sound on this tune are spread out across the fronts and the center, with not too much individual definition. The rears are reverb with organ and tambourine.
Whatever Gets You Through the Night: The vocals by ELton and John are spread across the front soundstage, with the center having them a bit clearer as there is only an acoustic guitar with them, along with a reduced volume underlying track. The two artists vocal tracks are not separated, so you can't just hear Elton or John by themselves. The rears have no vocals, but Eltons piano can be heard very clearly - and there is no mistake that it is Elton. What a treat to hear this piano part, buried all those years! The organ is also in the rears with Elton's piano. This mix BLOWS AWAY the '70s quad mix!
#9 Dream: Johns strumming acoustic and his soft vocal are found in the center, along with the maracas. The main vocals are naturally in the fronts. There is only the hint of the vocal track in the rear, which highlights the orchestration. Cool effect is Yoko saying "John" back and forth between the rear speakers. (You know the part where John sings "Something called out my name", and Yoko whispers "John".) Again, this mix renders the Q8 a trader.
Stand By Me: I always loved this song done by John, and the 5.1 mix is great. Lots of isolated guitars, in the center, and the left and right front. Piano in the rears open up the recording. John's vocal is mostly in the center, as is the great guitar solo in the middle. The ending is cool, too.
Just Like Starting Over: The first "modern" track. It shows, as the multitracks are obviously in better shape. The center has a "track" vocal that comes in heavier on the chorus and the refrain. The Bass guitar is here. The rears have no vocals, but carry background singers that also appear in the fronts.
Woman: Johns vocal is in the stereo fronts, the center is only the track. The rears are mostly bass, drums, and guitar with no vocals, background or lead!
Beautiful Boy: The main surround effect on this tune is the altered vocal "echo" of the chorus, which blares from the rears when it comes up. The center track has Johns vocal clear again, and listening to it solo, you can hear things that you cannot make out in the stereo mix, like John saying "Sean, Sean..." as well as a harmony part that I never picked up.
Watching the Wheels: This great tune gets a kind of sudues treatment. The only thing interesting is that in the center channel, you can hear some of John talking and singing along that you never heard in the released mix. OVerall though, it plays as a "full" sound.
Nobody Told Me: This tune came out after Johns assassination, so there is not too much to expect here. This mix does not offer much in the sense of surround. The piano is fairly clear in the rears, however.
Borrowed Time: This one has a better surround mix than "Nobody", as there are a few accent guitar parts that move around a bit. The center is without vocal, but spotlights the base.
Working Class Hero: Here is one tune where you don't want a super surround mix (Heck, it's only John and a Guitar). That's what you get, a stereo recording with a but of ambiance. Good Job, it sounds great.
Happy Christmas: "Happy Christmas Kyoko", "Happy Christmas Julian" come from the two rear speakers! The rest of the track is pretty standard, the vocals from the Harlem Community Choir are mostly in the front, as is the main vocal form J&Y. The fade is gone, however, as the tune ends abruptly.
Give Peace a Chance: This was recorded in a hotel room, so there is not too much to be expected from a surround sound perspective. However, if you listen to the center channel, you can hear what appears to be another Lennon vocal, or maybe it is another person at the event. It is hard to tell.
Overall, this is well worth the $15 or so that it cost. The above observations were made by listening to the DTS track and viewing it in Sound Forge 7.0.
JonUrban, Nov 19, 2003
http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/lennon-legend-5-1-mixes.24682/#post-429575
The thread over there has been closed, so copied and pasted it over here. Heck, I wrote it!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I spent some time listening (and looking) at the DTS mixes on this release. Here's what I found:
Imagine: Starts with Piano solo in center. Johns vocal in center, echoed in fronts. Rear only piano and full orchestra. No vocals ever in the rears. Nice Mix.
Instant Karma: John again solid in the center, reverbed in the fronts and rears. Handclaps in the rears. It's cool to hear JLs vocal if you isolate the center channel, as there is no reverb, and you can clearly hear his vocal track - Something I never heard before so clear!
Mother: Opening bells in the four corners, not in the center. This tune is mostly stereo centric, with the fronts doing almost everything but the reverbs. This is probably a nice choice for this song.
Jealous Guy: John is back in the center channel. Rears have no vocal, but again the orchestration. It really stands out here, instead of being lost in a stereo mix.
Power to the People: The intro to this one is cool. All 5 main channels have the chorus of voices singing the 4 "Power to the Peoples", then the center goes to music only, the fronts get heavy and the rears with a solid reverb.
Cold Turkey: John again in the center, clear as a bell and no reverb, which is sent to the fronts. Lotsa bass on this one.
Love: John is only in the fronts here, with the center used as a filler with the track and only a slight hint of the vocal. The rears are mostly ambiance.
Mind Games: The many layers of sound on this tune are spread out across the fronts and the center, with not too much individual definition. The rears are reverb with organ and tambourine.
Whatever Gets You Through the Night: The vocals by ELton and John are spread across the front soundstage, with the center having them a bit clearer as there is only an acoustic guitar with them, along with a reduced volume underlying track. The two artists vocal tracks are not separated, so you can't just hear Elton or John by themselves. The rears have no vocals, but Eltons piano can be heard very clearly - and there is no mistake that it is Elton. What a treat to hear this piano part, buried all those years! The organ is also in the rears with Elton's piano. This mix BLOWS AWAY the '70s quad mix!
#9 Dream: Johns strumming acoustic and his soft vocal are found in the center, along with the maracas. The main vocals are naturally in the fronts. There is only the hint of the vocal track in the rear, which highlights the orchestration. Cool effect is Yoko saying "John" back and forth between the rear speakers. (You know the part where John sings "Something called out my name", and Yoko whispers "John".) Again, this mix renders the Q8 a trader.
Stand By Me: I always loved this song done by John, and the 5.1 mix is great. Lots of isolated guitars, in the center, and the left and right front. Piano in the rears open up the recording. John's vocal is mostly in the center, as is the great guitar solo in the middle. The ending is cool, too.
Just Like Starting Over: The first "modern" track. It shows, as the multitracks are obviously in better shape. The center has a "track" vocal that comes in heavier on the chorus and the refrain. The Bass guitar is here. The rears have no vocals, but carry background singers that also appear in the fronts.
Woman: Johns vocal is in the stereo fronts, the center is only the track. The rears are mostly bass, drums, and guitar with no vocals, background or lead!
Beautiful Boy: The main surround effect on this tune is the altered vocal "echo" of the chorus, which blares from the rears when it comes up. The center track has Johns vocal clear again, and listening to it solo, you can hear things that you cannot make out in the stereo mix, like John saying "Sean, Sean..." as well as a harmony part that I never picked up.
Watching the Wheels: This great tune gets a kind of sudues treatment. The only thing interesting is that in the center channel, you can hear some of John talking and singing along that you never heard in the released mix. OVerall though, it plays as a "full" sound.
Nobody Told Me: This tune came out after Johns assassination, so there is not too much to expect here. This mix does not offer much in the sense of surround. The piano is fairly clear in the rears, however.
Borrowed Time: This one has a better surround mix than "Nobody", as there are a few accent guitar parts that move around a bit. The center is without vocal, but spotlights the base.
Working Class Hero: Here is one tune where you don't want a super surround mix (Heck, it's only John and a Guitar). That's what you get, a stereo recording with a but of ambiance. Good Job, it sounds great.
Happy Christmas: "Happy Christmas Kyoko", "Happy Christmas Julian" come from the two rear speakers! The rest of the track is pretty standard, the vocals from the Harlem Community Choir are mostly in the front, as is the main vocal form J&Y. The fade is gone, however, as the tune ends abruptly.
Give Peace a Chance: This was recorded in a hotel room, so there is not too much to be expected from a surround sound perspective. However, if you listen to the center channel, you can hear what appears to be another Lennon vocal, or maybe it is another person at the event. It is hard to tell.
Overall, this is well worth the $15 or so that it cost. The above observations were made by listening to the DTS track and viewing it in Sound Forge 7.0.
JonUrban, Nov 19, 2003
Great description as always, Jon!
Now the real question is, will anyone sit down and do an in-depth comparison between the new Imagine 5.1 Blu-Ray and the same tracks from the Lennon Legend. I believe both were done by the same engineer (Paul Hicks).
Now the real question is, will anyone sit down and do an in-depth comparison between the new Imagine 5.1 Blu-Ray and the same tracks from the Lennon Legend. I believe both were done by the same engineer (Paul Hicks).
The "Lennon Legend" DVD was mixed by Peter Cobbin.
I believe the “John” vocal was provided by May Pang not Yoko Ono.
You are correct, sir. What the hell did I know in 2003!
As for "Mother" and "Working Class Hero", they are very sparse, but hearing those opening bells in 5.1, they sound like you are in a cathedral. Very cool! As much as a proponent of "Columbia style surround mixes", music like this can sound really powerful if the "space" is increased by using 5.1 even without the discrete "guitar in the left, vocal in the center" type deal. It's really a function of what's the source made up of.
"Remember the 5th of November" - it's coming up!
How does the Cobbin mixes of Imagine and Jealous Guy compare to the versions on the new Imagine box?
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