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Kris Kristofferson Q8 Collection

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Q-Eight

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Another thread inspired me to start this one.

These are the six Kris Kristofferson Q8's I own. Supposedly, "Me & Bobby McGee" is also available on GRT Q8, but I've never seen it - or, if I have seen it, it was ever such a long time ago that I don't recall. For years I avoided these because they weren't blue GRT's and I try not to collect the white ones. However, it's been brought to my attention that there may not be BLUE cartridge shells for the Monument-branded GRT's. No idea if there's any truth to this, but all the Monument ones I have are white-shell.

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For reviewing purposes, I gave "Best Of" a play tonight, and all I can say is this one is all over the G-D place. Some songs have vocals in all four, some have vocals in two, and often times, the songs that have two channels with vocals aren't always in the front. "Jody and the Kid" has vocals in the rears, but sounds just as good if you flip flop those channels to the front. I wager a few songs are fake surround as "Bobby McGee" and "Help me make it through the Night" have Y-shaped readings on the Quadscilloscope and are very much fat mono in the rears. Other songs are four corner discrete with drums in one channel only. "The Taker", I thought somebody had recorded over Back Left as it's silent for the first minute of the song. Then springs to life with a shaker, background singers and a guitar overdub. Had it not been for the horn echo (from Back Right) during the silent passages, I'd have definitely thought this was a defective cartridge.

All in all, none of the mixes really make sense and sort of begs the question "Why was this album even attempted?" Between shoddy mixes, faked surround and the ever-present GRT swapped channel, it just makes you shake your head. I suppose this album could be used as a poster child for why a lot of artists despise vintage Quad mixes. Many out there are good to excellent. But a high profile title like Kristofferson gets treated like this? Shameful. Absolutely shameful.

More to come. I'll review the other titles until somebody tells me to shut up.
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fredblue

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Wonderful new thread, amazing pics and great info.. and a nice precis (I won't bother pursuing that Best Of Cart ever now.. blimey! :p )

Please don't shut up reviewing the others as I've only ever heard the 4 Quad albums from SQ, so do carry on!! :upthumb
 

Q-Eight

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GRT "Silver-Tongued Devil & I" : Unusual Channel swap. Vocals only in two channels on this tape Front Right and Back Left. Swap Lefts front to back and it creates a very nice, four-corner discrete sound stage. Kris' vocal front and center with backing vocals always in the rear and depending on track count, you either get backing vocals in Back Left or in a nice stereo pair in the rear. Channel Layout generally is:

Front Left: Electric Guitar (or second guitar)
Center: Kris' Vocals and Bass, Occasionally Kris' guitar.
Front Right: Drums

On a few songs, you get strings or piano up front in a nice stereo pair.

Back Left: Backing Vocals, Synth, Percussion, Rhythm Guitar.
Back Right: Backing Vocals, Horns, Keyboards, Steel Guitar.

On the title track, the drum kit is mostly in the Front Right with the kicker drum being Back Center. Unusual, I thought and seem to be the only track that features the kicker in the rear so prominently.

Columbia "Silver-Tongued Devil & I" : Would you believe identical mix to the tape above, no channel location error but immensely better sound quality. The GRT tape is somewhat muffled whereas the Columbia tape has much clearer highs. They share about the same levels of hiss, but I believe since the Columbia tape just sounds clearer, you don't notice it as much on this tape.

Interestingly enough, both tapes do not share identical track listings.

The fun bit is during "The Taker" on the Columbia track, due to the clearer sound, you can faintly hear either one of the background singers or the fellow playing the guitar having fun and scat-singing along with the track. You can clearly hear him say "Boop-boop-ba-doop!" along with the horns during the final notes of the song.
 

Q-Eight

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GRT: "Border Lord" : This tape has the typical GRT swap. Changing Front Right and Back Left seems to make everything line up. What's interesting about this tape is that the mix is eerily similar to the Jim Croce Quad mixes, aside from the vocal placement. On this tape, we're treated to:

Center: Kris Kristofferson and Bass. Front vocals are wet and probably EQ'd to be prominent.
Front Left: Electric Guitar, Fiddle, Steel Guitar
Front Right: Acoustic Guitar, Harmonica, or 2nd Electric Guitar.

For a healthy portion of the songs, you do detect some drum kit ambience in the front channels.

Back Center: Kris Kristofferson at 50% strength and dry, backing vocals at 50% and on some songs lightly echo'd.
Back Left: Organ, Steel Guitar, Acoustic Guitar or Kicker Drum
Back Right: Drum Kit, Piano, Acoustic Guitar.

Some songs feature the drum kit solely in Back Right, while some songs like "Stagger Mountain Tragedy" feature the kicker in Back Left, the rest of the kit in Back Right. Other songs feature a mono guitar intro out in the left channels, but that guitar will find a corner following the introduction. However, other songs begin with an organ or a piano, and that instrument will be proper in a corner.

Overall, decent mix. Much more lushly instrumented so you get something in every corner. Not particularly fond of the vocals all being up the middle on this one. But they're not as annoying as say, Elvis in Memphis where the vocals are full strength in all corners. This tape surrounds you with the lead vocals, but the focus is kept front and center. If it weren't for the fact that every one of these tapes has a channel location error, I might play these more!

I will admit, this is probably the best "mixed" I've reviewed so far. There is actually some thought going into these mixes. While vocals, even harmony or backing vocals all seem to be mixed to mono (slightly annoying), actual mixing techniques are employed rather than the "something over here - something over there" mentality. For instance, I was really impressed with "Kiss the World Goodbye". Drums are in back right with a very light touch of piano sneaking through. I thought to myself, why didn't they widen it up and put the piano in the left? But then the song really takes off and you have drums in back right with the piano, another acoustic guitar in back left and this really crazy, distant-sounding organ coming from right up the middle and it really manages to fill out the back channels. Then, you add in the vocals all coming up the middle and it makes for a really nice atmosphere. The fronts have bass up the middle, vocals up the middle and a guitar in each corner. It really was a treat. It's Quad and really nicely thought-out Quad.
 

Q-Eight

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Is "Best of Kris Kristofferson" even a legitimate album? I cannot find any reference to an LP counterpart or even simply a stereo counterpart! Wikipedia Discography does not mention it as a compilation album of any kind. I still wonder if "Bobby McGee/Kristofferson" (his first album) was ever released in Quad. Has anybody ever seen that one?
 

Simon A

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Is "Best of Kris Kristofferson" even a legitimate album? I cannot find any reference to an LP counterpart or even simply a stereo counterpart! Wikipedia Discography does not mention it as a compilation album of any kind. I still wonder if "Bobby McGee/Kristofferson" (his first album) was ever released in Quad. Has anybody ever seen that one?
Could it have been a promo release distributed in small quantities? This could explain why it's difficult to track down information about it.
 

JonUrban

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From the graphic on the "Best of" Q8 it looks like it could be a tape-only compilation. Maybe a quad 8 only release?

I never was into KK so I never had any of these Q8's, though I saw plenty of the Columbia's in the cut-out bins.
 

steelydave

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Could it have been a promo release distributed in small quantities? This could explain why it's difficult to track down information about it.
It exists as a 7 1/2 IPS stereo reel and I would suspect probably a stereo 8-track as well. My guess is that it was probably done specifically for GRT, who manufactured and distritubted Monument's tapes. Doing a 'greatest hits' basically allowed them to make another release out of already extant quad mixes. Based on how varying the quad mixing styles are between tracks I wouldn't be surprised if a quad mix of the whole first Kristofferson album (aka Me & Bobby McGee) exists - would you really make things so different if you sat down to mix the greatest hits album all in one go? To my mind a greatest hits album mixed in quad all at once sounds more like Mountain's best of where the tracks have a pretty cohesive feel despite coming from a bunch of different albums. Mark Anderson's quad discography says 'Bobby McGee' Q8 does exist (catalog # Monument C 7044-30817) but if it does it must be exceedingly rare, as I've never seen a copy.

According to wikipedia, Monument signed a worldwide distribution agreement with CBS in 1971, but based on the 1972 phonographic copyright date on those tapes I'd say that was more likely the year, or at least when the new agreement kicked in because there are definitely Kristofferson releases on Columbia in 1972 as well. When one agreement began the other would have been terminated, so I would think that would mean that all those GRT tapes would have gone out of print. That would account for the rarity of the GH, Border Lord and Bobby McGee tapes which would have been in print for way less than a year in total. Silver Tongued Devil has no phonographic copyright date on it which means that it was issued before Feb. '72 when the phonographic copyright law took effect, so it may have been in print a little longer.

Columbia obviously decided to reissue Silver Tongued Devil and Jesus Was A Capricorn on Q8 and SQ LP when they got the rights to them, but not so with Best Of, Border Lord, or Me & Bobby McGee (if it exists). There may be a clue as to their mindset in a snippet of an interview Al Lawrence (who was the head of Columbia's quad program by that point) did with Billboard magazine in 1975:

Not all of the label's artists have product that is conducive to quad reproduction, Lawrence states. Still, all major CBS record sellers have at least one 4- channel release. He cites Kris Kristofferson and Bob Dylan as artists better suited for stereo reproduction, because their recording sound is composed of far less instrumentation.

It seems Lawrence may have shared Q-Eight's opinion about the quality of the quad mixes and declined to re-release them. I think the sophistication of quad mixes was growing so rapidly at the time that some of those 'one thing in each corner' mixes from '70-'72 would probably have seemed pretty dated even a few years later.
 

fredblue

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It exists as a 7 1/2 IPS stereo reel and I would suspect probably a stereo 8-track as well. My guess is that it was probably done specifically for GRT, who manufactured and distritubted Monument's tapes. Doing a 'greatest hits' basically allowed them to make another release out of already extant quad mixes. Based on how varying the quad mixing styles are between tracks I wouldn't be surprised if a quad mix of the whole first Kristofferson album (aka Me & Bobby McGee) exists - would you really make things so different if you sat down to mix the greatest hits album all in one go? To my mind a greatest hits album mixed in quad all at once sounds more like Mountain's best of where the tracks have a pretty cohesive feel despite coming from a bunch of different albums. Mark Anderson's quad discography says 'Bobby McGee' Q8 does exist (catalog # Monument C 7044-30817) but if it does it must be exceedingly rare, as I've never seen a copy.

According to wikipedia, Monument signed a worldwide distribution agreement with CBS in 1971, but based on the 1972 phonographic copyright date on those tapes I'd say that was more likely the year, or at least when the new agreement kicked in because there are definitely Kristofferson releases on Columbia in 1972 as well. When one agreement began the other would have been terminated, so I would think that would mean that all those GRT tapes would have gone out of print. That would account for the rarity of the GH, Border Lord and Bobby McGee tapes which would have been in print for way less than a year in total. Silver Tongued Devil has no phonographic copyright date on it which means that it was issued before Feb. '72 when the phonographic copyright law took effect, so it may have been in print a little longer.

Columbia obviously decided to reissue Silver Tongued Devil and Jesus Was A Capricorn on Q8 and SQ LP when they got the rights to them, but not so with Best Of, Border Lord, or Me & Bobby McGee (if it exists). There may be a clue as to their mindset in a snippet of an interview Al Lawrence (who was the head of Columbia's quad program by that point) did with Billboard magazine in 1975:

Not all of the label's artists have product that is conducive to quad reproduction, Lawrence states. Still, all major CBS record sellers have at least one 4- channel release. He cites Kris Kristofferson and Bob Dylan as artists better suited for stereo reproduction, because their recording sound is composed of far less instrumentation.

It seems Lawrence may have shared Q-Eight's opinion about the quality of the quad mixes and declined to re-release them. I think the sophistication of quad mixes was growing so rapidly at the time that some of those 'one thing in each corner' mixes from '70-'72 would probably have seemed pretty dated even a few years later.
2 quick things in response to your latest, most excellent post here, Dave:

1.) There is a Columbia/Monument SQ LP of Border Lord (with a gold border on the cover, oh lord, no less)..
and
2.) Re the 4-corner mix approach, it would seem weird Al Lawrence bashing that method of mixing and then by 76 we had a return to that style with Tower Of Power, BT Express, etc..

That is all :)
 

dr8track

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From the graphic on the "Best of" Q8 it looks like it could be a tape-only compilation. Maybe a quad 8 only release?

I never was into KK so I never had any of these Q8's, though I saw plenty of the Columbia's in the cut-out bins.
According to Mark Anderson's quad discography, at least in quad format, it was only released in Q8.

KRIS KRISTOFFERSON -
Best. Monument 7044-18902C (Q8)
 

steelydave

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2 quick things in response to your latest, most excellent post here, Dave:

1.) There is a Columbia/Monument SQ LP of Border Lord (with a gold border on the cover, oh lord, no less)..
and
2.) Re the 4-corner mix approach, it would seem weird Al Lawrence bashing that method of mixing and then by 76 we had a return to that style with Tower Of Power, BT Express, etc..

That is all :)
1. You're right, I forgot about that one. Never reissued as a Q8 though...maybe the LP went out just so they could sell some product, quality be damned. Wouldno't be the first time in

2a. I don't think those 1976 Columbia quads are 4-corner at all. Bear in mind that the rear speakers in a SQ quad mix are always going to be 'corners' based on the fact that you can't have a phantom rear center, but both those titles have the majority of the instrumentation stereo imaged across the front. Tower Of Power has the drums in one rear and the bass guitar in the other (which is a little unusual, I'll agree) but also backing vocals, strings and horns in all 4 speakers at times. The BT Express title regularly has the horns in both rear speakers and the drums across the front in stereo etc. This is lightyears ahead of some of the old GRT tapes, and even some of the early Columbia quad mixes like Janis Joplin and Sly's Greatest Hits etc. 2b. Al Lawrence doesn't have a credit on anything after 1975 so it's very possible that all of that stuff was done after he left CBS, if he did indeed go.

Al Lawrence, International Quad Man Of Mystery :D
 

Q-Eight

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One thing I found interesting was the catalog #'s. The one cross-over album (GRT & Columbia) Silver Tounged Devil: 7044-30679 for GRT, ZAQ-30679 for Columbia!

Border Lord on GRT/Monument: 7044-31302 <--- (There's that 31xxx series again!)
Jesus was a Capricorn on Columbia: ZAQ-31909

And yet, the "Best Of" features several songs from an album issued on Columbia. So, surely the Best Of had to come after Jesus was a Capricorn was made, obviously, right? Yet Best of has a strange 7044-18902 catalog number. So, who knows where it came from? Hence why I asked if anybody had seen another version of it. I too am under the impression it's a GRT-specific album intended to cash in.

I'm sure if we knew the specifics of the Monument buyout, we'd figure out the timeline. Seem to smack of the whole Billy Joel Family Productions vs. Columbia Records deal. Columbia got to issue the albums on LP, where Family Productions got to keep the rights to the tapes.

Supposedly, there's a Best of Mountain Q8 from Columbia, but I've never seen it. Seen the Best of Mountain SQ LP on Columbia though....

Also, I believe the Quad Discography to be in error as it states Jesus was a Capricorn came out as a GRT/Monument Q8. (7044-31909). All I've ever seen it as was the Columbia ZAQ-31909 Q8, which I also personally own.

Lastly, the song mixes on the Best of that came from the Bobby McGee album are not true, discrete Quad. As I said, they produce a Y-shaped display on my Quad Scope, which means the rears are mono. Like somebody pressed the Matrix-4 button on a Craig Quad 8-track player! So, if the Q8 does exist, it's either fake Quad, or they simply faked the songs on the Best Of album.
 

fredblue

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Sorry to go OT but you raise yet another interesting point..

..I wonder just how many unreleased Quads there are in that 31xxx series... ??

Did you ever have a stab at hazarding a guess based on timing and what came out in Stereo in said time frame from artists with Quads later on in time..?
I'll bet there are loads of interesting unreleased Columbia/Epic & assoc titles (as Steve Hoffman alluded to, as we both noticed at one time or another.. hmm)
 

Q-Eight

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Sorry to go OT but you raise yet another interesting point..

..I wonder just how many unreleased Quads there are in that 31xxx series... ??

Did you ever have a stab at hazarding a guess based on timing and what came out in Stereo in said time frame from artists with Quads later on in time..?
I'll bet there are loads of interesting unreleased Columbia/Epic & assoc titles (as Steve Hoffman alluded to, as we both noticed at one time or another.. hmm)
Hard to say. There's a lot of rumoured stuff from that series, and there were also a lot of heavy-hitter albums in that era that should have been issued, but weren't.
Some highlights:

30986 - Sly & The Family Stone / There's a Riot Goin' On (advertised on some Columbia paper sleeves)
31106 - The Raiders / Country Wine (unsubstantiated, but would've been a great follow-up to Indian Reservation)
31249 - Edgar Winter's White Trash / Roadwork (Possibly SQ-only, but unlabelled)
31607 - Johnny Nash / I Can See Clearly Now (arguably, his biggest hit and also a couple good Bob Marley covers on this album)
31712 - The O'Jays / Backstabbers (three of their biggest hits on this one album. Multi-Platinum if I'm not mistaken. I'd bet money it was done)
 

Q-Eight

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Finishing up my reviews:

Jesus was a Capricorn on Columbia Q8:

For such a late title, this is one of those over here / over there mixes reminiscent of "Pearl" or "Loggins & Messina". Drums are split hard and wide. Kicker in Front Right, Snare (and a louder kicker) in Front Left. Overheads in Back Left. Bass is sometimes in Front Center, but other times it's in Back Left. I do like how vocals are split front & rear with Mr. Kristofferson in front center and backing vocals in stereo in the rears. Instrumentation is varied and lush but haphazardly placed. One song will have a Shaker in Back Left and a Tambourine in Back Right, but then the next song, you'll have a Cowbell in Front Right. There's no consistency and that always bothers me, well the only thing that's consistent is how wide and split up the drum are. Whoever mixed this wasn't being creative at all. What irks me is I'm writing this after having listened to the album, and I'm currently listening to Spooky Lady's Sideshow commenting to myself how amazingly well that album is mixed. I guess that brings me to:


Spooky Lady's Sideshow on Columbia Q8:

O.. M.. G.. :music

Who mixed this one? Seriously!! I'll admit, I'm a closet Kristofferson fan mostly collecting these tapes simply for being a completist. But WOW! What a Great mix. The first thing you'll notice is the vocals and this is how I like to mix vocals when I get my claws into a multitrack. Kris is front center loud and proud, but the rears have this wide, dispersed shadowy echo nice and low that gives you that '70s warm and fuzzy. It doesn't sound like he's in the room with you, but it's like hearing Elvis' Sun Slap-Back echo. It's such a product of it's time. That's about as best as I can describe the echo. Kris is up front and a very tasteful echo follows up the rear. Like hearing Jim Morisson's whisper vocal on the Quad Riders on the Storm for the first time. It's very surprising as this is very atypical of a Columbia Mix.
Backing Vocals must've been recorded on four tracks or more. Some songs have backing vocals coming at you from all four corners. But you're not getting phantom Left/Right, you're getting it from all four corners on the 'scope. The rest is pretty straight forward for 32xxx series Columbia. Drums are fairly narrow in the front, kicker up the middle, snare off on the right, hi-hat to the left, tom-toms and overheads mixed wider but are used sparingly. Plenty of guitars to fill front or back, even some organ appearing mostly in the back. It's a very front-heavy mix, but when the surrounds come on, you are very happy they are there. This is a great mix and upon hearing it again - this is one that should be put to the forefront for a conversion to a modern format. This one will make you a believer of Surround/Quad.
 

fredblue

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1. You're right, I forgot about that one. Never reissued as a Q8 though...maybe the LP went out just so they could sell some product, quality be damned. Wouldno't be the first time in

2a. I don't think those 1976 Columbia quads are 4-corner at all. Bear in mind that the rear speakers in a SQ quad mix are always going to be 'corners' based on the fact that you can't have a phantom rear center, but both those titles have the majority of the instrumentation stereo imaged across the front. Tower Of Power has the drums in one rear and the bass guitar in the other (which is a little unusual, I'll agree) but also backing vocals, strings and horns in all 4 speakers at times. The BT Express title regularly has the horns in both rear speakers and the drums across the front in stereo etc. This is lightyears ahead of some of the old GRT tapes, and even some of the early Columbia quad mixes like Janis Joplin and Sly's Greatest Hits etc. 2b. Al Lawrence doesn't have a credit on anything after 1975 so it's very possible that all of that stuff was done after he left CBS, if he did indeed go.

Al Lawrence, International Quad Man Of Mystery :D
Don't remember a thing about the decoded Border Lord SQ, sorry.. :eek: ...only that it was one of Kristofferson's Quad albums I preferred as an album
in and of itself over a couple of the others, nice arrangements and production, lead vocals quite palatable even.. :eek:

We're fated never to agree about BT Express, Dave.. and by rights I should bow to your superior knowledge of all things Quad but on this one (and more than likely this one alone!) I must make a bit of an exception, not least since I've transferred and decoded that bloody album like 9 or 10 times across 3 copies of the SQ record now to try and 'nail it'.. so you might say I'm intimately familiar with the Quad.. I know its nigh on impossible to make out where some stuff is coming from with SQ but if you haven't already, please I would appreciate if you could take the time and have a quick play of v.latest effort thru the Technics & AT440MLb combo.. there are tracks where things aren't stereo across the front pair, like strings and then later hand claps too in Front Right only and bom-chicka-wow stylee rhythm guitar later joined by bongos in Rear Right only, with saxophone almost all (SQ.. ahem) in Rear Left on "Can't Stop Groovin' Right Now, Wanna Do It Some More".. in the title track the Front Right singles out percussion (is it like one of those "Guiro" things with a stick that rubs up against a ribbed gourd shaped instrument.. sounds slightly rude but there you have it, they're playing it in that song!) and in "Time Tunnel" strings are again only in Front Right and that trippy sound effect "whoop whoop whoop whoop" thing about 30 seconds in is only in Rear Left, etc.. and the last track "Energy Level" has handclaps and strings Front Right, sax Rear Right, rhythm guitar Rear Left and tambourine shaking its thing away almost distractingly in Front Left... its an interesting mix all round and a really spread out one, for a late one its nothing like the sound I was expecting from a surround remix of that album, it is less reverb-y and kinda less doof doof pounding and sort of more refined than the Stereo too, in general.. I'm doubtful it would be a Positon encoder fudge job that one.. Larry Keyes, say what you like but he didn't muck about, I can't think of one of his Quads yet that wasn't "Quaddy".. shame no-one gives much of a stuff about the album, Quad or not.. oh well I love it, so there you go.. some nutty ramblings about it in Quad even if nobody ever listens to it! :D

anyway..! sorry for that rather intense Hi-energy Disco diversion.. Back to Kriskris Kristoffersonson.. (who prior to Quad I only ever owned the Kristofferson album with Barbra "A Star Is Born".. so never really what you might call a fan by any stretch of the imagination.. but he has grown on me somewhat in the last year or so you might say, I'll never be big on him I don't think but never say never.. :eek: )
 

fredblue

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Hard to say. There's a lot of rumoured stuff from that series, and there were also a lot of heavy-hitter albums in that era that should have been issued, but weren't.
Some highlights:

30986 - Sly & The Family Stone / There's a Riot Goin' On (advertised on some Columbia paper sleeves)
31106 - The Raiders / Country Wine (unsubstantiated, but would've been a great follow-up to Indian Reservation)
31249 - Edgar Winter's White Trash / Roadwork (Possibly SQ-only, but unlabelled)
31607 - Johnny Nash / I Can See Clearly Now (arguably, his biggest hit and also a couple good Bob Marley covers on this album)
31712 - The O'Jays / Backstabbers (three of their biggest hits on this one album. Multi-Platinum if I'm not mistaken. I'd bet money it was done)
Good God.. :yikes

you know, I'd buy every single one of those in Quad.. especially the O'Jays, Sly & The Family Stone and Johnny Nash.. blimey..

how
do we liberate these from the vaults..??
(or even just establish whether they are indeed among the many unreleased Quads that Steve Hoffman mentioned..?)

There has to be a way.. surely..!?

meantime I'll pick up a copy of Roadwork on LP and see what they do if anything (the Jan Hammer/Jeff Beck Live LP that's said by some to be stealth SQ does bugger all thru the SQ Surround Master btw.. so there you go)
 

fredblue

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Spooky Lady Quad done by someone called John Haeny

Edit:
(who I don't think ever got credited for another Quad on any of the other Columbia & assoc label SQ records, or at least on none of those I picked up so far?)

John Haeny: Internationally Renowned Music Mixer, Recording Engineer, Sound Designer and More..

Edit: I notice he worked on The Body & Soul Of Tom Jones.. that's a Quad (Q8?) isn't it?
..and he did Little Feat and Warren Zevon.. wow.. dunno how his name had escaped me all this time.. I need to pay more attention in "school" clearly... :eek:
 

bmoura

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Bear in mind that the rear speakers in a SQ quad mix are always going to be 'corners' based on the fact that you can't have a phantom rear center.
Unless you used the "London Box" SQ encoder which enables the recording engineer to record a Center Rear signal without it cancelling out in mono.
 

steelydave

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Unless you used the "London Box" SQ encoder which enables the recording engineer to record a Center Rear signal without it cancelling out in mono.
Yeah I didn't mean the encoder used so much as the fact that the CBS mixing engineers rarely if ever put anything center-rear. They seemed to always steer stuff hard rear-left or rear right, presumably for maximum matrix compatibility.
 
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