Music Server Newbie Experiences and Questions

[LuvMyQuad]

But I am running Kodi media software which reads the (up to 7.1 96kHz/5.1 192kHz/5.1 384.6kHz) FLAC files concurrently while downloading and displaying 1920x1080 artist photo slideshows (as well as downloading and displaying current lyrics, lists of similar artists and their album covers and current artist historical data).

Kodi is also available as a QNAP application, so I think I will have to try it on for size and see if it improves the situation.

Tell me, how do you handle SACD playback in Kodi? The only thing I have come across is a program to convert the SACD ISO to a DSF file. Do you have a way to convert SACD to Flac? And what do you use the 5.1/384.6 kHz playback for? Those have to be huge files even by high res standards.

 

[ssully]

If one is feeding the signal into a device doing room correction, typically an AVR running one of the standard products (Audyssey, MCACC, YPAO), it's almost certainly resampling. AFAIC there are far, far more pressing things to worry about than that. If any modern systems are being brought to their knees by a format, that mainly shows how ridiculous/insanely far into overkill territory 'audiophile' formats have strayed (e.g., "DSD256 multichannel and/or 24/192 multichannel PCM").

 

[LuvMyQuad]

Just a preliminary update, but interesting.

Thus far all of my experimentation with the NAS has been using JRiver Media Center for playback. And as I said previously, Kodi is another option for the QNAP since it is one of the available apps (as is PLEX). I installed it a few days ago but only did a quick look at the interface. I didn’t attempt to play anything. Over lunch today I took 15 minutes and looked into it further.

Within a few minutes I had it playing. I only had to specify the output device, 5.1 output, and reload Kodi. I found out two things. First, Kodi is able to make it through entire 24/96 5.1 flac tracks without issue. This is something I could not do when running JRMC with these same tracks. I still need to play with this more to be sure I wasn’t hearing some down sampled version of the tracks I listened to, and I’m not sure yet how to handle SACD streams with Kodi. But so far it’s an improvement. I also want to look at the CPU/memory usage when running Kodi to see how it compares to running JRMC.

Second, Kodi has a decent 10 foot interface. JRiver’s 10 foot interface (Theater View) has been removed from JRMC for QNAP. That forces one to either run JRMC from another network enabled device (which is what I’ve been doing), or resort to moving close enough to the display to actually read it to direct JRMC with a mouse/keyboard. Not only does Kodi have a nice couch potato interface, but it is well controlled from the listening position using the little remote that was bundled with the QNAP, presumably for applications just like this. I don’t think I ever mentioned this before. But the QNAP also accepts IR commands directly… hence the remote. JRMC cannot be controlled using that same remote. The functionality is just not there.

There is another issue as well. Beyond the points I raised above, JRiver is currently working on a fix for a serious bug that prevents JRMC from re-starting if the NAS is powered down. As it is now, JRMC has to be uninstalled and then re-installed for it to run again after a shut down. (I’ve had to re-install 3x now).

Could it be that the performance issues I’m seeing are not due to underpowered CPU? Could it be that, at least some of the issues I’m seeing could be due to a poor adaptation of JRMC as it applies to the QNAP? Could the JRMC program itself be what is sapping up CPU resources? I’m going see what I can do to find the answer later today. Stay tuned.

 

[HomerJAU]

Kodi is also available as a QNAP application, so I think I will have to try it on for size and see if it improves the situation.

Tell me, how do you handle SACD playback in Kodi? The only thing I have come across is a program to convert the SACD ISO to a DSF file. Do you have a way to convert SACD to Flac? And what do you use the 5.1/384.6 kHz playback for? Those have to be huge files even by high res standards.

I have converted the SACDs to ISOs using an old PS3. Then used Foobar and its SACD plugin to convert to FLAC. I originally did that at 176.4kHz (apologies: I said 384kHz in my previous post by mistake). I have since redone almost all to 88.2KHz as I decided I couldn't hear any difference and files are half the size). I still have a couple of 176.4 and 192KHz albums but only for testing, I now convert to 88.2 or 96kHz Max.

I believe latest Kodi can play DSF files without conversion although I've yet to try.

If you have an iPad or iPhone try this: www.kodimusicremote.com

Maybe JRiver is using different less efficient drivers, hence the CPU loading. Kodi has been developed to run on pretty low powered devices and uses the Intel graphics chip if it can plus using HDMI pass through which takes a fair load of the CPU. JRiver may take a different approach coming from desktop origins.

 

[DuncanS]

The Intel NUCs use the i3-6100U @ 2.3GHz or the i5-5250U @ 1.6GHz/2.3GHz, both have 3MB cache, are 64-bit 2x core, 4x thread processors. Both NUCs can handle 7.1 channel audio over HDMI.

 

[LuvMyQuad]

I believe latest Kodi can play DSF files without conversion although I've yet to try.

Yes, it does. I'm playing one now with Kodi outputting 1 bit 192 kHz to the pre pro. Three tracks in and the audio is flawess. The only issue I've see so far is the loud thump that happens when it switches tracks.

 

[HomerJAU]

Yes, it does. I'm playing one now with Kodi outputting 1 bit 192 kHz to the pre pro. Three tracks in and the audio is flawess. The only issue I've see so far is the loud thump that happens when it switches tracks.

Thanks for the confirmation on SACD file playback.

I don't get a thump between tracks playing FLAC. Is that only when playing DSFs? What version of Kodi are you running?

 

[LuvMyQuad]

Thanks for the confirmation on SACD file playback.

I don't get a thump between tracks playing FLAC. Is that only when playing DSFs? What version of Kodi are you running?

Version 15.2.1, I don't get it with Flac either. Tried it with 2 different DSF conversions. Same thumping both times. I can make it disappear to a whisper by crossfading for 1 sec. Probably not great for contiguous music though.

Update: Definitely audio performance going on here that I could not get with JRMC on this setup. No question. I haven't had a dropout yet. And I really like the interface so far.

Found a nice tutorial that explains Kodi audio setup options http://www.htpcbeginner.com/kodi-audio-settings/

(how do you guys get the link to just say "here" ???)

A check on CPU resource usage playing 5.1 24/96 Flac shows peaks on the first core hitting 35%, most others at 20 max. The average is 11%. JRMC was using a few percent more on average, bit it still had buffering dropouts playing these same tracks. No dropouts is soooo nice. :music

America: Homecoming .... Ahhhhh

 

[LuvMyQuad]

So i'm chugging along with Kodi. I have not found a real solution for the loud thump that occurs between DSF tracks yet, but by allowing a second of cross feed between tracks, I do have it minimized to the point that they won't pop speaker cones at high volume.

I got one of these for full control when in couch potato mode. http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Wireless-Keyboard-Touchpad-Internet-Connected/dp/B014EUQOGK/ref=sr_1_1?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1456964856&sr=1-1&keywords=logitech+k400+plus

(will someone please tell me how to make those links appear as single words?)

This is the best $25 I've spent in quite a while. It works very nicely. I particularly like the left thumb mouse button. you can maneuver the cursor with your right thumb, and then select with your left.

 

[krkier]

Mark the word you'd like to make a link, then click on the little globe and insert the URL.

-Kristian

 

[LuvMyQuad]

So I think I got down to the bottom of the noise burst when playing DSF files in Kodi. Apparently it would have happened in any player. Its a fault in the iso2dsd converter I am using. Its discussed here.

I converted an SACD ISO to DFF instead and tried it in Kodi. Kodi plays it just fine and with no noise between tracks. Dead silence. And no need to crossfeed.

Go figure. Looks like im gonna be re-converting to DFF.

And thanks to Kristian for the link help above.

 

[HomerJAU]

No need to 'Go figure'. You've done the hard work - good to hear the problem is solved!

 

[magicmarkie]

I'm new to all this computer audio lark-installed DB Power Amp the other day and ripped one cd......then had to search on the computer to find it with no indication as to how I can sync to my phone, my Oppo also found the album file but no track listing. The db forum probably has the answer but so many threads! Is there any easy guide for newbies and computer audio anywhere on-line where I can find out how to use DP properly so I haven't wasted the £40.00 spent on this. Windows media is ok but their 'metadata' library is not up to scratch and my nokia phone ends up with album titiles and artists but nowt else.
Any info would be gratefully received.

 

[LuvMyQuad]

I'm new to all this computer audio lark-installed DB Power Amp the other day and ripped one cd......then had to search on the computer to find it with no indication as to how I can sync to my phone, my Oppo also found the album file but no track listing. The db forum probably has the answer but so many threads! Is there any easy guide for newbies and computer audio anywhere on-line where I can find out how to use DP properly so I haven't wasted the £40.00 spent on this. Windows media is ok but their 'metadata' library is not up to scratch and my nokia phone ends up with album titiles and artists but nowt else.
Any info would be gratefully received.

I cant help you with DB Power amp because I have no experience with it. Nor do I have any experience using smart phones and audio. It sounds like you might have a tagging issue though. Explore BDPA for tagging routines.

I have been using Exact Audio Copy (EAC) for CD ripping. It gets all the metadata on line and works very well. Its freeware.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

I'm new to all this computer audio lark-installed DB Power Amp the other day and ripped one cd......then had to search on the computer to find it with no indication as to how I can sync to my phone, my Oppo also found the album file but no track listing. The db forum probably has the answer but so many threads! Is there any easy guide for newbies and computer audio anywhere on-line where I can find out how to use DP properly so I haven't wasted the £40.00 spent on this. Windows media is ok but their 'metadata' library is not up to scratch and my nokia phone ends up with album titiles and artists but nowt else.
Any info would be gratefully received.

First, I have no experience with playing from phones nor have I bothered with Windows Media in years. However, you can/should specify on DBpowerAmp (1) where to put the files, (2) what format to put the files (note that WAV files cannot support embedded metadata) and (3) to grab the metadata before the rip. Yes, the community is overwhelming but there are linked docs with some help.

 

[LuvMyQuad]

So I thought I’d provide an update on my newbie progress.

I'm using the Kodi player and the QNAP TS-451+ server/NAS as described in the first post. I’ve pretty much given up on using JRiver MC due to the problems it had processing multichannel audio due to buffering issues. Kodi does not seem to exhibit these problems. My assumption is that JRMC needs a more powerful processor than the quad core Celeron in the QNAP. I still keep track of the support page for JRMC in an effort to try and get more answers (here). It seems they did finally fix the main bug where JRMC required a re-install if the NAS is powered down.

I’m using DVDA Extractor to rip DVDA and DVDV disks to 24/96 flac. Most of my multichannel music collection is DVDA/V of some type. Its working great with no issues. Playback is smooth as silk.

I started ripping music videos from the DVDA/V disks with makeMKV. It seems to do its job. I haven’t tried doing a lot with these yet other than checking for correct playback. They all need to be properly named or tagged and then brought into the Kodi library somehow. Any advise on handling music videos in Kodi would be welcome.

I’m using Exact Audio Copy (EAC) to rip stereo Redbook to flac. Again, no issues.

I’m using Tagscanner to tag all these rips. Excellent utility.

I have about 25 SACD ISO files, some multichannel, some stereo. One advantage with JRMC over Kodi is that JRMC can handle these ISO files directly while Kodi can’t. I started using Sonare’s ISO2DSD software to convert these ISO’s to .dsf files. I soon found out that there was a problem in my system with these transfers producing a loud pop when switching tracks. This was more than a nuisance. It was loud enough to cause speaker damage at high volumes. Research into the limited info on the web indicates it could be an error in the ISO2DSD software (handles the empty space at the end of a track improperly), or it could be the way my prepro (Emotiva UMC-200) handles format changes (although it really doesn’t change formats when playing). My popping problem seems much louder than the reports of the pop produced by the conversion error. In any case I soon found that using the .dff option in ISO2DSD does not produce this result. Playback of .dff/.dsf is smooth and issue free on Kodi, except for the .dsf popping.

For those who don’t know (I certainly didn’t initially), .dsf and .dff are basically the same type of file container for DSD data, the primary differences being .dsf is a Sony sponsored format which supports tagging options while .dff is a Phillips sponsored format which does not support tagging options.

I came upon another solution (can’t remember where). Someone decided that the way to get around the popping issue is to first convert to .dff, and then convert the .dff to .dsf. They put together a GUI to do all this using the base ISO2DSD and DFF2DSF conversion programs. As you might imagine, the conversion time was quite long. I was disappointed trying it because I ended up with the same popping problem.

You might think that converting these SACD ISO’s to .dff’s would be the solution in and of itself. I mean, there shouldn’t be any difference in the sound quality based on format, and I don’t think there is. There is a problem in that .dff doesn’t support tags however. As of this writing, I haven’t found a way to get Kodi to load .dff files into the library (it will however load .dsf's into the library, whether tagged or not). I started a thread on the Kodi support page here, but it doesn’t seem to be going anywhere. Note that Kodi will play the .dff’s without issue. It just can’t load them into its library. They have to be played from the file menu. Agggghhhhh….

Probably the most empty ended problem I have is how to deal with the dozen or so multichannel DTS music disks I have. I have found no way as of yet to convert these to anything usable on the NAS. Suggestions would be most welcome.

Lastly, the QNAP app center suggested I upgrade Kodi to the latest available version (Jarvis 16.0.0), which I did. While there might have been some small improvements, the biggest downside for me is that the visualization aspect for music was “moved”. I must say I enjoyed the visualizations Kodi provided before the update. The Kodi people still seem to be sorting this out here, but until it gets fixed, there are no longer any visualizations in Kodi for me. I get the feeling from reading through the support threads that getting the Kodi development team to look into something like that is not going to happen fast. Kodi for Windows was unaffected, but the QNAP is linux based. I have exactly zero experience with Linux, so it could get ugly getting those visualizations back.

That’s it for now. As always, if you have any comments or suggestions I would be more than happy to hear them.

 

[HomerJAU]

I've converted all my SACDs to FLAC at 24/88.2kHz using Foobar and its SACD plugin, the FLAC files get tagged automatically and files renamed to track. Song name (e.g. 01. Xxxxx xxxx.flac)

DVD Audio Extractor can convert DTS to FLAC but it's limited to 'core' (48kHz). Or you can just chose to create .dts files (which supports 24/96) then use Foobar to convert to 24/96 FLAC.

Audiomuxer will also convert DTS DVDs to FLAC including 24/96.

Kodi 16.0 does have an issue with visualisations but it will be fixed very soon. I'm using Aeon Nox Madnox skin which has 3 visualisations that mostly work ok now but the skin is not easy to configure (lack of docs) but their music visualisations are very good, best I've seen for info and automated artists slideshow:



All my music videos have been converted to individual files (song/chapter per file) and renamed to the song title. I have not added them to the Kodi library (database). I just navigate to to music video folder on my NAS and select them. I have made Kodi Playlists for all the music video releases so I can go to a list of music video playlists (discs) and play a disc or individual songs (in any order)

 

[LuvMyQuad]

DVD Audio Extractor can convert DTS to FLAC but it's limited to 'core' (48kHz). Or you can just chose to create .dts files (which supports 24/96) then use Foobar to convert to 24/96 FLAC.

There are other issues and questions I have, but first, understand there are .DTS Video disks and .DTS Music disks. DVDA Extractor will convert the .DTS video fine, (EDIT: .DTS conversions are limited to the core 48kHz stream), but it dosen't even see a DTS music disk in the drive. DTS music is a lossy DTS stream hidden inside what is basically a .WAV container. Some can be burned to CD media, and can be either 16 or 20 bit. Like I said my version of DVDAE wont even say hello to those. Examples are: Alan Parsons: On Air, Eagles: Hell Freezes Over, Steve Miller: Fly like an Eagle, McCartney and Wings: Band on the Run.

Kodi 16.0 does have an issue with visualisations but it will be fixed very soon. I'm using Aeon Nox Madnox skin which has 3 visualisations that mostly work ok now but the skin is not easy to configure (lack of docs) but their music visualisations are very good, best I've seen for info and automated artists slideshow:

The Cooper is Nice. If I change skins will visualizations come in with it? Ive only used the default skin so far.

 

[HomerJAU]

If you can install the Madnox skin then I can help show you the settings. I downloaded the latest version today and there is an option to force their music visualisations so that it is used no matter how you play music, even when I use a 3rd party iPad app I get that screen (my Alice Cooper screenshot). This fixes any Kodi visualisation issues.

With Linux you'll need to use one of the free Windows programs to remote into Kodi and copy the Madnox files to the 'add ons' folder. Madnox does not install from Kodi itself. Once copied you can run Kodi, select the Madnox skin then do the Madnox skin settings. Maybe I can start a new thread on using Kodi to play music and setup Madnox?

As far as DVDAE, I think it shows video files only if there are no audio (DVD Audio) files. There are other threads on QQ that might provide good info. Otherwise try AudioMuxer (free).

 

[HomerJAU]

That Cooper screenshot shows just one photo of AC. There are about 8 or 10 that change every 5 seconds or so. The artist photos vary in quantity and quality. Some are 1080p others less. A few obscure artists don't show any photos at all but you can add you own, but that's not as easy as it should be.