PC for Multichannel Music Playback - What's your Setup?

[Stupy]

Hi there... I've long had a PC setup almost exclusively using Foobar2000 on Windows 11 (10 and 7 before that). This was up to and including playing Atmos (using the ffmpeg plugin) - mixed down to 5.1 - all this worked swimmingly.

I'm now looking at ... been able to play Atmos as Atmos via hdmi as I have an Atmos receiver and will have the ceiling speakers in when I can afford it. This is where the trouble starts and I'm hoping someone can give me a pointer or three

Major points:
- I understand that atmos needs to be bitstreamed to the receiver;
- My atmos files are in m4a with one of two codecs: eac3-joc or mlpa.

Software experiments so far:
- Foobar2000 - appears not to be able to bitsream - not going to work - ?
- VLC - can bitstream eac3-joc as atmos (cool! See pictured) but not the higher quality mlpa. It rejects the codec mlpa and I cannot seem to find anything so far (eg. a plugin) to get past it.
- JRiver 30 - wants to play files as pcm rather than bitstream, I think from reading that it'll play atmos if you put it in an agreeable video format -? No luck here.

Any tipoffs or suggestions? Just a whiff of a path to check out would be awesome!

 

[himey]

JRiver 30 - wants to play files as pcm rather than bitstream

Did you set bitstream to HDMI, and it still wanted to play pcm?
Have you tried Kodi?

 

[humprof]

Hi there... I've long had a PC setup almost exclusively using Foobar2000 on Windows 11 (10 and 7 before that). This was up to and including playing Atmos (using the ffmpeg plugin) - mixed down to 5.1 - all this worked swimmingly.

I'm now looking at ... been able to play Atmos as Atmos via hdmi as I have an Atmos receiver and will have the ceiling speakers in when I can afford it. This is where the trouble starts and I'm hoping someone can give me a pointer or three

Major points:
- I understand that atmos needs to be bitstreamed to the receiver;
- My atmos files are in m4a with one of two codecs: eac3-joc or mlpa.

Software experiments so far:
- Foobar2000 - appears not to be able to bitsream - not going to work - ?
- VLC - can bitstream eac3-joc as atmos (cool! See pictured) but not the higher quality mlpa. It rejects the codec mlpa and I cannot seem to find anything so far (eg. a plugin) to get past it.
- JRiver 30 - wants to play files as pcm rather than bitstream, I think from reading that it'll play atmos if you put it in an agreeable video format -? No luck here.

Any tipoffs or suggestions? Just a whiff of a path to check out would be awesome!

I wasn't familiar with the mlpa codec, although I assume you've found these two VLC user forum posts?
https://forum.videolan.org/viewtopic.php?t=155958https://code.videolan.org/videolan/vlc/-/issues/24597
The other two media players that I've successfully used for Atmos mkv and/or m4a playback are Kodi and the Microsoft Movies & TV app. I don't especially like the interface for the latter, and by default Kodi effectively requires you to tag and organize your files into a library that you don't mess with once it's created (although there's a slightly non-intuitive option for playback from something like File Explorer, too).

 

[mandrix]

Hi there... I've long had a PC setup almost exclusively using Foobar2000 on Windows 11 (10 and 7 before that). This was up to and including playing Atmos (using the ffmpeg plugin) - mixed down to 5.1 - all this worked swimmingly.

I'm now looking at ... been able to play Atmos as Atmos via hdmi as I have an Atmos receiver and will have the ceiling speakers in when I can afford it. This is where the trouble starts and I'm hoping someone can give me a pointer or three

Major points:
- I understand that atmos needs to be bitstreamed to the receiver;
- My atmos files are in m4a with one of two codecs: eac3-joc or mlpa.

Software experiments so far:
- Foobar2000 - appears not to be able to bitsream - not going to work - ?
- VLC - can bitstream eac3-joc as atmos (cool! See pictured) but not the higher quality mlpa. It rejects the codec mlpa and I cannot seem to find anything so far (eg. a plugin) to get past it.
- JRiver 30 - wants to play files as pcm rather than bitstream, I think from reading that it'll play atmos if you put it in an agreeable video format -? No luck here.

Any tipoffs or suggestions? Just a whiff of a path to check out would be awesome!

VLC will bitstream Atmos Blu Ray fine, but with some file types it chokes. What file type are you having a problem with? If it's M4A you could try changing the extension to MP4 and see if it passes.
I use Both VLC and PowerDVD for Atmos, BD's but generally for M4A and MP4 files I use PowerDVD Ultra.

You are correct, Foobar will not bitstream. You can get Foobar to play M4A but it will cause it to be channel based. If that interests you I can show you

 

[mandrix]

BTW the "mlpa" codec is the extended version of the mlp codec more familiar in DVDA lossless compression, the original mlp codec as used in DVDA's is limited to 6 channels whereas the extended version is not.

 

[Stupy]

Heh. I should have came here first rather than hit my head against a wall! =)

10 minutes back on the PC and both codecs work... on, of all things, Windows Media Player Legacy (humprofs's reference to the Movies & TV app inspired me to check it out quickly). I am stunned that a program with "legacy" in the title is the first solution lol

Himey - re JRiver 30, my best understanding as at last night was that the issue is that JRiver uses a different engine for audio and video. And atmos in video is cool; but it dislikes atmos purely in audio. (See JRiver ATMOS Playback etc).

Boondocks - may I ask which version of PowerDVD you are running? I have PowerDVD 15 here and suspect it is ancient now (I got it as part of Media Suite 13 many years go).

Also Boondocks - Oops, I thought I'd mentioned these are all m4a files. Yes, lol, I did actually try renaming to mp4 to see if VLC would then be happy, among other fudges (eg. converting to mka), but VLC was smart enough (?) to realise it still had beef with the mlpa codec.

Humprof - I did find a few threads yes on mlpa in VLC, and trying the latest "nightly build" is still on the agenda. In fact, I'm going to give that a run right now... and... the latest nightly build plays mlpa but now the bitstreaming is broken - both codecs sending pcm rather than atmos to the receiver. lol. I'll keep experimenting.

Humprof - Yes, Kodi remains an option =)

Thanks and may the Atmos be with you all!

 

[mandrix]

@Stupy I'm using PowerDVD Ultra v22. They've been having something of a sale recently so I just went ahead and bought it about two months ago I think.

I'm not learned enough to know why various players get hung up on file types and codecs while bitstreaming. But after trying a trial of PowerDVD and seeing that it didn't choke on M4A and MP4 Atmos files I went ahead and bought it.

OK wasn't sure if renaming the file extension worked with VLC or not ....I used to do that when I was using the Dolby Reference Player, that is rename M4A to MP4 and usually it would make the player happy.

I do know that VLC seems to play every Atmos BD .iso file I throw at it with a few exceptions...it does not like some of the Pure Audio BDA's, seems to have a problem with the menu system some times. I don't know if this has anything to do with it but sometimes these discs have both Atmos and Auro3D. I never noted for sure if there was a correlation.

So you might be asking, if I have PowerDVD, why use VLC at all? Well the easy answer is that VLC is a little more forgiving than PowerDVD sometimes for my system. I normally, when bitstreaming from my pc to my AVR use the HDMI port on the motherboard, so that port uses the Intel drivers. I also have for a while had Nvidia graphics cards. Both HDMI outputs are connected to an HDMI switch. The output of the switch goes to the AVR, and the output from the AVR's video goes to the monitor. I find that things go smoother if I use the HDMI out from the motherboard for sound instead of from the Nvidia gpu. Likely just a configuration thing but I get tired of screwing around with Windoze and prefer to just use what I know works for a long time for me.

But, sometimes I don't notice that the Nvidia gpu is engaged (HDMI switch) and PowerDVD doesn't want to bitstream and I get frustrated and just switch over to VLC.
Wheels within wheels. Why can't they all just get along? lol.

 

[SeeMoreDigital]

Major points:
- I understand that atmos needs to be bitstreamed to the receiver;
- My atmos files are in m4a with one of two codecs: eac3-joc or mlpa.

If your playback devices don't like Atmos muxed within the .m4a/.mp4 container, you could try re-muxing them into the .mka (Matroska) container using an application called MKVToolNix.

Just so you know... EAC3 (E-AC-3) refers to Dolby Digital Plus (with or without Atmos), which is a 'lossy' audio format.

 

[mandrix]

Well he tried converting to mka for VLC and that did not work for him. I honestly don't know what people are using for m4a playback. I was using the DRP and changing the extension previously but PowerDVD works for me now.

You can play matroska files in Foobar with a little setup work but then the playback becomes channel based instead of object. I have a 3 step pictorial for anyone interested. I learned this from @HomerJAU .

....with the disclaimer that the matroska files can have no video in them.

 

[Stupy]

Hi All,

I'm going to drop this here for anyone else on the voyage of adventure getting Windows 11 (likely relatable to Windows 10 as well) talking Atmos to an AV Receiver via HDMI.

Cheers

Windows Application	EAC3-JOC (in M4A files)	MLPA (in M4A files)	Notes
Dolby Reference Player	Yes	Yes	Important: Rename m4a files to mp4 files
Foobar v1.6.16	PCM Only	PCM Only	To play at all, needs ffmpeg plugin
JRiver	PCM Only	PCM Only	Plays Atmos in video but not in audio files
Kodi	Yes	Yes	Great once settings found!
Microsoft Media Player Legacy	Yes	Yes	Surprisingly easy.
Microsoft Media Player	Yes	PCM Only	Weird - older version happier with Atmos.
VLC 3.0.18	Yes	No	Atmos bitstream works but dislikes MLPA codec
VLC 4.0 (in dev)	PCM Only	PCM Only	Plays all but bitstream broken

 

[mandrix]

Well....I don't know what/how VLC is choosing between mlp and truehd. When you say mlpa do you mean DD+ (lossless) Atmos? Or just the matroska container, m4a, mp4.


I do know VLC will play an Atmos encoded BD (bitstreaming) with no problems, which is recognizes as truehd. So I'm guessing it comes down to the container. It must not like M4A/MP4 containers with Atmos DD+ or lossless Atmos (truehd)?

I only use VLC for BD's so I don't keep up with what it will do currently.

Sounds like you've got a handle on things, though.

 

[Stupy]

Well....I don't know what/how VLC is choosing between mlp and truehd. When you say mlpa do you mean DD+ (lossless) Atmos? Or just the matroska container, m4a, mp4.


I do know VLC will play an Atmos encoded BD (bitstreaming) with no problems, which is recognizes as truehd. So I'm guessing it comes down to the container. It must not like M4A/MP4 containers with Atmos DD+ or lossless Atmos (truehd)?

I only use VLC for BD's so I don't keep up with what it will do currently.

Sounds like you've got a handle on things, though.

G'day!

Yes, it's been a week of interesting experimentation in my "spare time." As soon as I connect up ceiling speakers; in theory everything is going to be work and be awesome.

Re: The m4a files. By mlpa I mean... and I hope I get this right... it's TrueHD with Dolby Atmos. The m4a files contain, yes, lossless atmos; I admit to being a bit vague on things from there. My sources are blurays and immersiveaudioalbum.com (extracted from mp4).

Re: VLC. I converted a m4a with mlpa in it to mka and tried it in VLC 3 but got the identical error about the mlpa codec. There might be other conversions that VLC will be happy with; I am not sure. It appears that VLC 4 will have support for mlpa anyway; it's just that the bitstream appears broken right now *shrugs*

Cheers

 

[mandrix]

That sounds like my experience. Honestly I just gave up and bought PowerDVD. lol, No, I don't own stock in the company, and sometimes tech support is like pulling teeth, and the forum is useless. But at least it bitstreams m4a and mp4 dd+ and lossless Atmos so I stick with it for most playback.

Blows my mind that we have to jump through hoops on the pc but at least VLC has come a long way. I remember when it was hit or miss playing almost any blu ray .iso but it's pretty good now.
Playback is good enough that I only rip BD's , whether Atmos or not to .iso and I have no problems with playback except when Windoze causes them, usually. (sometimes there exists operator error, which I freelly admit to!)

 

[hi-res_edition]

I have not mucked with this at all yet, but curious if anyone has tried the FooBar 2.x (beta) version, and if plugin is still required for that? But, hope VLC will support the MLPA, as that is the piece of software I was planning on using.

 

[mandrix]

I have not mucked with this at all yet, but curious if anyone has tried the FooBar 2.x (beta) version, and if plugin is still required for that? But, hope VLC will support the MLPA, as that is the piece of software I was planning on using.

I did not read through all the change logs.
But, what is it you are concerned a plugin is required for?

Some things Peter is not going to do AFAIK, and probably for SACD and DVDA support that will probably remain true and for other things that currently require plugins.
I think at one time he said he had no interest in bitstreaming....but don't hold me to it as I could be wrong or he could change his mind.

But you can play matroska files even with Atmos encoding if you use the ffmpeg decoder wrapper plugin, download the simple version of ffmpeg (you only need two files) and do a little setup work. But the decoding will become channel based. Still it works as long as the files contain no video.

 

[hi-res_edition]

I did not read through all the change logs.
But, what is it you are concerned a plugin is required for?

Some things Peter is not going to do AFAIK, and probably for SACD and DVDA support that will probably remain true and for other things that currently require plugins.
I think at one time he said he had no interest in bitstreaming....but don't hold me to it as I could be wrong or he could change his mind.

But you can play matroska files even with Atmos encoding if you use the ffmpeg decoder wrapper plugin, download the simple version of ffmpeg (you only need two files) and do a little setup work. But the decoding will become channel based. Still it works as long as the files contain no video.

Not concerned - more curious, and wanted to know if anyone has tried to utilize FooBar 2000 v2x - I noticed that with that version plugins are not required for several items that were required for v1.6 - so just wondering if anyone has played with the new beta version sucessfully for Atmos playback. I utilize it for FLAC and WAVE playback only so far with no major issues. Happy to install a plugin if required, but no where near mucking around with Atmos playback from files via PC yet. Thanks for your reply.

 

[mandrix]

Yeah I dunno. I'm still on v1.6 myself.

 

[himey]

Not concerned - more curious, and wanted to know if anyone has tried to utilize FooBar 2000 v2x - I noticed that with that version plugins are not required for several items that were required for v1.6 - so just wondering if anyone has played with the new beta version sucessfully for Atmos playback. I utilize it for FLAC and WAVE playback only so far with no major issues. Happy to install a plugin if required, but no where near mucking around with Atmos playback from files via PC yet. Thanks for your reply.

I have been using only the beta version for months now with no issues. You still need most of the same components (plugins). Most of them are 32bit, so I continue to use that. I run 3 portable instances of Foobar2000 so I don't have to always fiddle with the output settings.

 

[Grendel13G]

Windows Application	EAC3-JOC (in M4A files)	MLPA (in M4A files)	Notes
Dolby Reference Player	Yes	Yes	Important: Rename m4a files to mp4 files
Foobar v1.6.16	PCM Only	PCM Only	To play at all, needs ffmpeg plugin
JRiver	PCM Only	PCM Only	Plays Atmos in video but not in audio files
Kodi	Yes	Yes	Great once settings found!
Microsoft Media Player Legacy	Yes	Yes	Surprisingly easy.
Microsoft Media Player	Yes	PCM Only	Weird - older version happier with Atmos.
VLC 3.0.18	Yes	No	Atmos bitstream works but dislikes MLPA codec
VLC 4.0 (in dev)	PCM Only	PCM Only	Plays all but bitstream broken

Thanks for this! I haven't personally tried all of these, but the wiki on Reddit's /r/htpc suggests that the following applications can be configured for bitstreaming Atmos:

• MPC-BE (confirmed working for MLPA, straightforward)
• MPC-HC (confirmed working for MLPA, more difficult)
• PotPlayer (confirmed working for MLPA, but oddly it will only play one file -- additional files are just silent until application is restarted)
• Plex

The wiki also says that VLC supports bitstreaming, but like you I found that VLC 3.0.18 it won't play the MLPA codec.

I'm sad that my trusty foobar2000 doesn't support bitstreaming.

 

[Stupy]

Thanks for this! I haven't personally tried all of these, but the wiki on Reddit's /r/htpc suggests that the following applications can be configured for bitstreaming Atmos:

• MPC-BE (confirmed working for MLPA, straightforward)
• MPC-HC (confirmed working for MLPA, more difficult)
• PotPlayer (confirmed working for MLPA, but oddly it will only play one file -- additional files are just silent until application is restarted)
• Plex

The wiki also says that VLC supports bitstreaming, but like you I found that VLC 3.0.18 it won't play the MLPA codec.

I'm sad that my trusty foobar2000 doesn't support bitstreaming.

Annoyingly, I think things keep changing and my list from March is probably already out of date. I'm still hopeful foobar2000 will do the bitstreaming one day. For now I've settled using Kodi.

Cheers