Recording from the Involve V2 via a Behringer UMC404HD

[beerking]

Hi All
I'm looking for some help/advice about using the Involve V2 to record 4ch music via the Behringer UMC404HD.
I have everything set up and have successfully recorded in Audacity with 2ch stereo.
The input sound device shows as ether 1,2 or 3.4 Behringer. There is not one command for all 4 ch's.
Reading various on-line articles, this is a recent, known problem with the 404 and Audacity, using Windows 10.

I know it works with MacBook's using the above combination, as it has been confirmed by our QQ colleague MrSmithers.
Has anyone successfully used the equipment with Audacity in Windows 10, or has anyone found an alternative programme (eg. Reaper) which worked.?

This pic shows how it looks on my PC.

 

[DuncanS]

Hi Mike,
I don't have a USB multichannel device to try. I bought a standalone Teac multichannel digital recorder, as if you want to hear the air go blue just stand near me when the software doesn't work properly! It looks a bit like software driver compatibility issues between Behringer & Audacity, but I might be wrong.

What do you see in Audacity's panel? 1st is Audio Host 'Drivers', 2nd is Device, 3rd is no. of channels to record.

 

[beerking]

Hi Duncan,
This is what I get now after using a different driver...but it only gives 4 mono inputs.

Blue air is putting it mildly!!
Frustrating the hell out of this old noggin.
Of course, all a sharp learning curve but what isn't, in this little pastime of ours, when we want to move the curve ball!!

 

[DuncanS]

That looks correct to me, as far as the UMC404 is concerned you are recording 4 mono tracks! As that is how you would see it in a recording studio, so 4 separate inputs. I think you have to add tracks in Audacity and assign them, so 1 to 1, 2 to 2 etc. You also need to assign them when Exporting to FLAC etc. I would also start by recording at a low sample rate as latency/speed issues might show up and that might just confuse matters, so that is the Project Rate in the bottom left corner.

 

[beerking]

That looks correct to me, as far as the UMC404 is concerned you are recording 4 mono tracks! As that is how you would see it in a recording studio, so 4 separate inputs. I think you have to add tracks in Audacity and assign them, so 1 to 1, 2 to 2 etc. You also need to assign them when Exporting to FLAC etc. I would also start by recording at a low sample rate as latency/speed issues might show up and that might just confuse matters, so that is the Project Rate in the bottom left corner.

Aha the plot thickens.
I did something similar to what you suggested but clearly something went wrong as playback was not in Quad!!
I assumed that the 404 would pass though the Quad signals from the Involve...

I shall revisit this once I've had my Sunday roast beef.

I think I just need a mentor to keep me on the straight and narrow.
Cheers
Duncan

 

[J. PUPSTER]

Mike, I believe the problem is with the host driver, Windows Wasapi. I could never get mine to work with my MOTU. I believe you will have better luck with Adobe Audition 3.1 which is no longer available, but I may have the files and I’ll look later today (still only 5:30 here AM) Will be cooking a Sunday roast beef also today while in self imposed lockup

 

[DuncanS]

Mike, When you record have you 4 channels/tracks shown in Audacity?

 

[beerking]

Mike, I believe the problem is with the host driver, Windows Wasapi. I could never get mine to work with my MOTU. I believe you will have better luck with Adobe Audition 3.1 which is no longer available, but I may have the files and I’ll look later today (still only 5:30 here AM) Will be cooking a Sunday roast beef also today while in self imposed lockup

Yes Pups, I could list the articles I've read about Windows 10 messing things up with the 404. The driver I'm using now, is not available on Behringers site, I found it from a very useful YouTube vid.
But any different ideas I will certainly try.
Peeps even mentioned using Linux Mint as a solution as it works a treat....so much to learn.

 

[beerking]

Mike, When you record have you 4 channels/tracks shown in Audacity?

I do. One initially wanted to record in stereo the others in mono...so got all to record in mono.
Just wondered where to go from there as that's not what I expected to see. But my knowledge is very limited in using Audacity, so it could be that I need a shove in the right direction.
My trouble is I want to run before I can walk.

 

[DuncanS]

So you see something like this?
NB: It does seem to take in the first 2 tracks as stereo and the others as mono additions (this is an input from a 4.0 FLAC)
In the box where you see Speakers/Headphones can you select the UMC404?

 

[beerking]

So you see something like this?
NB: It does seem to take in the first 2 tracks as stereo and the others as mono additions (this is an input from a 4.0 FLAC)
In the box where you see Speakers/Headphones can you select the UMC404?
View attachment 48109

I do if I play a flac file off the hard drive, yes.
This where I get confused as I expect to see these variations from the 404 when playing from the Involve V2.
I can select the speaker connection for the 404 as opposed to the receiver.

 

[DuncanS]

I do if I play a flac file off the hard drive, yes.
This where I get confused as I expect to see these variations from the 404 when playing from the Involve V2.
I can select the speaker connection for the 404 as opposed to the receiver.

Yes. They are independent settings. So I have an nVida Graphics card and I can select it as an audio input (bizarrely!) or select it as an output or the speakers attached to my Dell's in-built sound card.

 

[beerking]

Yes. They are independent settings. So I have an nVida Graphics card and I can select it as an audio input (bizarrely!) or select it as an output or the speakers attached to my Dell's in-built sound card.

Mine is an AMD graphics card, which 8 years ago was top of the range, yes I can select mine as well!!
Am I right in assuming that I should see channel variations in all 4 ch's, from the Involve, to record?
Last time I tried, all 4 channels gave the same output.
But like I said.... what do I know!

 

[DuncanS]

Ok what I would do is export your 4 channel recording as a FLAC file 4.0 or 5.1 (with added silent channels), and make sure it plays back correctly via your normal way of listening to FLACs.

If you can listen correctly and as you expect from the FLAC file, it is possibly the driver for the UMC440 which doesn't work properly in playback with Audacity.

 

[beerking]

grr....now Audacity is playing up even after a reboot...keep getting invalid sample rate errors , followed by a debug report.

I think it's time to relax and try this again later, when my noddle has cleared.

 

[Simon A]

grr....now Audacity is playing up even after a reboot...keep getting invalid sample rate errors , followed by a debug report.

I think it's time to relax and try this again later, when my noddle has cleared.

Cleared Noodle. Great name for a Prog band...

 

[par4ken]

Oh, No! This thread is opening a can of worms for me. Some time ago I replaced my Delta sound card with a Digigram VXR882HR. Although the Delta is a good card it's only 96 KHz 4in/4out, while the Digigram is 192 KHz 8in/8out. Well I had trouble getting the Digigram to work with Audition 3.1, so I tried Audacity. With the MME drivers it works fine with 2 channels at 192 KHz., I've been ripping much of my vinyl to digital, I know that some would think 192 KHz is major overkill for vinyl, but I believe it's best to record at the highest bit rate and depth possible, it gives more for the processing such as the click/pop eliminator to work with, then you can always down-sample when you are done. I still use Audition for processing. I quickly checked into setting Audacity up for multi-channel recording and I looks like it won't work properly. You have to select Windows Wasapi driver to get more than stereo output channels to show up, I tried a quick test and it doesn't seem to work. I've always had a love hate relationship with computers, they are great when everything is working, but as soon as something is upgraded it often causes other-things not to work at all!
I still have one computer with Windows 7, Audition 3.1 and Delta 66 card that I can use for four channel recording, but will have to investigate multi-channel recording with the Digigram further, perhaps another program will be required? It's not a real priority for me right now I only have a handful of CD-4 records and reel tapes left to do, but is very frustrating just when you thought that you had everything set up and ready to go!

 

[GOS]

Cleared Noodle. Great name for a Prog band...

Almost....

 

[beerking]

Oh, No! This thread is opening a can of worms for me. Some time ago I replaced my Delta sound card with a Digigram VXR882HR. Although the Delta is a good card it's only 96 KHz 4in/4out, while the Digigram is 192 KHz 8in/8out. Well I had trouble getting the Digigram to work with Audition 3.1, so I tried Audacity. With the MME drivers it works fine with 2 channels at 192 KHz., I've been ripping much of my vinyl to digital, I know that some would think 192 KHz is major overkill for vinyl, but I believe it's best to record at the highest bit rate and depth possible, it gives more for the processing such as the click/pop eliminator to work with, then you can always down-sample when you are done. I still use Audition for processing. I quickly checked into setting Audacity up for multi-channel recording and I looks like it won't work properly. You have to select Windows Wasapi driver to get more than stereo output channels to show up, I tried a quick test and it doesn't seem to work. I've always had a love hate relationship with computers, they are great when everything is working, but as soon as something is upgraded it often causes other-things not to work at all!
I still have one computer with Windows 7, Audition 3.1 and Delta 66 card that I can use for four channel recording, but will have to investigate multi-channel recording with the Digigram further, perhaps another program will be required? It's not a real priority for me right now I only have a handful of CD-4 records and reel tapes left to do, but is very frustrating just when you thought that you had everything set up and ready to go!

As Pups said and others have said in on-line forums, the Behringer driver is causing all sorts of issues for Multitrack recording.
As an example:
https://www.solidrockbluesband.com/behringer-umc404hd-and-audacity-multitrack-recording/
And I have that earlier driver for Behringer now installed.....but not quite sure if it's causing other issues so may go back to the latest driver on Behringer's support page. ( which doesn't work!! in Multitrack)
Agreed about the frustration of PC's when they play up, it's ok for those who play with them every day, for me, it's an uphill struggle just to understand what I need to do and then how it works!!

 

[J. PUPSTER]

Oh, No! This thread is opening a can of worms for me. Some time ago I replaced my Delta sound card with a Digigram VXR882HR. Although the Delta is a good card it's only 96 KHz 4in/4out, while the Digigram is 192 KHz 8in/8out. Well I had trouble getting the Digigram to work with Audition 3.1, so I tried Audacity. With the MME drivers it works fine with 2 channels at 192 KHz., I've been ripping much of my vinyl to digital, I know that some would think 192 KHz is major overkill for vinyl, but I believe it's best to record at the highest bit rate and depth possible, it gives more for the processing such as the click/pop eliminator to work with, then you can always down-sample when you are done. I still use Audition for processing. I quickly checked into setting Audacity up for multi-channel recording and I looks like it won't work properly. You have to select Windows Wasapi driver to get more than stereo output channels to show up, I tried a quick test and it doesn't seem to work. I've always had a love hate relationship with computers, they are great when everything is working, but as soon as something is upgraded it often causes other-things not to work at all!
I still have one computer with Windows 7, Audition 3.1 and Delta 66 card that I can use for four channel recording, but will have to investigate multi-channel recording with the Digigram further, perhaps another program will be required? It's not a real priority for me right now I only have a handful of CD-4 records and reel tapes left to do, but is very frustrating just when you thought that you had everything set up and ready to go!

I use Audacity just for audio editing, was never able to get it to either record of playback anything other than 2 channels on my Win. 7 PC. Thanks to Garry, use MMH for various tasks; and I use Foobar2K for play back, and Audition for various other audio editing/processing and can get it to record 4 mono channels.
But it is all so very wanky