Should Dutton Vocalion avoid releasing SACDs of Quads with inferior mixes?

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If a Quad has a poor surround mix should Dutton Vocalion release it?

  • Yes

    Votes: 22 44.9%
  • No

    Votes: 20 40.8%
  • Maybe (please state your reason)

    Votes: 8 16.3%

  • Total voters
    49

fredblue

Surroundophile Extraordinaire
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further to the wee discussion that cropped up in the Guess Who American Woman/Share The Land SACD QQ Poll thread, just a theoretical question;

would you rather Vocalion entirely avoided releasing Quads with poor or "fake" surround mixes or do you think they should go ahead and remaster such a title anyway?
 
I said “Maybe” because a good mix is a matter of opinion. 🤷🏼‍♂️

+1

Ray was right dr. Simple: "What does it sound like, baby?"
A great mastering job, as is the norm for D-V, can make even lowly stereo sound fabulous. I voted Maybe, because "No" on fake surround, there's already plenty of software/hardware to do that for us. But "Yes" on a somewhat Poor mix as we have the Tech. to alter to our taste; and as the good dr. pointed out, is a matter of opinion anyway. And the most important reason is, I trust Michael Dutton (from his tract record so far) to make those hard choices for us and to choose wisely.
 
fwiw i voted "Yes" 👍

i have faith in the label to do the best job with the source material available, as they have done time and again already.

while there are 'desert island' titles i'd rather see before others (whether its because of the music or the surroundiness of the mix) i'll take what we get as it comes, its been like a lovely big lucky dip so far! when i flick through the Quad discs DV have done to date the variety/scope of the material is remarkable!
 
I said “Maybe” because a good mix is a matter of opinion. 🤷🏼‍♂️

Absolutely, but I think they'd refrain from releasing anything that's known to be upmixed from stereo. The only way I'd buy a fake quad on SACD is if it were paired with a legitimate one (say maybe one of the 3 fake Guess Who titles paired with Burton Cummings' debut LP).

It sounds like the same exact anti-quad vibe I got from people in 1973.

Are we looking at the same thread? The last thing I'd call @fredblue is "anti-quad".
 
Well Adam, as our hobby is subjective, it is very difficult to give a definitive response.
There are so many variables that come into play such as:

Equipment used.
The Listening room
The Listener

To name but a few

This is why I have submitted a maybe, although I too have bought many Dutton releases.
AND WILL CONTINUE TO DO SO

It is Michael Dutton's sheer skill and dedication that should and must be applauded.
Like Pupster said, I fully trust Michael's choice and, to date, I am not aware of any of his outputs that might be considered below par, especially considering the age and condition of the original material.

Very interesting subject Adam, as it will get the surround juices flowing.

And anything that highlights Dutton's output has to be taken as a positive. :QQlove
 
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I responded to the poll with respect to the QUAD, not the title.

I voted "No" and here's why. If there is a finite number of titles that can be released cost effectively, and if the marketplace is narrow and focused, and a rare resource like Dutton-Vocalion can only release so many titles per year, why waste a precious release on a title that has a shitty quad mix.

When Marshall was cranking these things out, there were many titles I advised him NOT to do, for the same reasons as stated above. If you pull an obscure title out of the dust bin to release it because there is a quad mix, it better be one with a good quad mix as if the stereo folks don't want it, and the quad folks think the mix sucks, you are going to end up with a lot of unsold discs, which makes the bottom line very bad.

Don't get me wrong, if the title is great and it's worth releasing on Stereo SACD, and there happens to be a quad mix that sucks, throw it on there. Who cares? But if it's a title that would be driven by surround sales, then NO.
 
I voted "maybe" as i see that on a case-by-case basis.
Some examples to clarify the reasoning.

Santana Amigos
A SACD hi-rez release would be a good seller even if stereo only, so even if the quad mix is nothing stellar, it will add value and market share. That would be yes.

CCR Gold: all the CCR album has been already done well by someone else, so for the stereo layer it doesn't add nothing than the compilation factor. The quad mix is ok, so that would be maybe.
 
When Marshall was cranking these things out, there were many titles I advised him NOT to do, for the same reasons as stated above. If you pull an obscure title out of the dust bin to release it because there is a quad mix, it better be one with a good quad mix as if the stereo folks don't want it, and the quad folks think the mix sucks, you are going to end up with a lot of unsold discs, which makes the bottom line very bad.

Still disappointed that they did all three GFRR sacd without the quad mix... that Capitol had already shipped to them (for WAAB)!!!!
 
Still disappointed that they did all three GFRR sacd without the quad mix... that Capitol had already shipped to them (for WAAB)!!!!

on the basis of what they've released so far (and when and how!) its impossible to predict what Vocalion are gonna do next they might really surprise us with a Grand Funk box set full of all their Quads!?!?! 😱 yeah seems unlikely but it's fun to dream!! 🤣
 
I voted "maybe" as i see that on a case-by-case basis.
Some examples to clarify the reasoning.

Santana Amigos
A SACD hi-rez release would be a good seller even if stereo only, so even if the quad mix is nothing stellar, it will add value and market share. That would be yes.

CCR Gold: all the CCR album has been already done well by someone else, so for the stereo layer it doesn't add nothing than the compilation factor. The quad mix is ok, so that would be maybe.

a Santana "Amigos" SACD would be really nice! even if the Quad mix in discrete form turned out not to be anything to write home about, the old Sony CD i have sounds kinda crappy and the SQ LP is well, kinda weird, so an upgrade would be "Welcome" (ha!) 😂
 
In almost EVERY parameter possible, I believe Michael Dutton has significantly raised the bar on how a great QUAD remaster should sound. QQ posters who have spent literally thousands on Matrix/CD~4 Vinyl, Q8 and even QR have unanamimously declared his QUAD SACDs superior in every instance which speaks volumes about D~V's ability to not only select QUAD worthy contenders but do full justice to those 50 year old analogue masters.

There are hundreds [perhaps thousands] of unreleased QUAD masters from almost every label still unreleased and although many are off the table, to release an inferior remix or compromised master doesn't seem to be in Mr. Dutton's vocabulary. And to sweeten that pot even further, in the history of surround who has released such abundant quality product with SUCH RAPIDITY other than D~V? NONE in my opinion.

Not to denigrate the wonderful efforts of Audio Fidelity....who I will always credit with instigating this QUAD revival, I believe with few exceptions, Dutton Vocalion has surpassed them.....and miraculously, at less than half the price......D~V's two~fers are, IMO, the reigning champs of economical value in a market which has always put a premium on SURROUND music.

Since those of us who are NOT invested in QUAD Vinyl, Q8s and/or QR have no idea what are stunning or inferior remixes, I trust Michael Dutton who definitely has a golden ear for quality will not release albums which he deems POOR CHOICES from a QUALITATIVE perspective.

From reading over this thread, posters who are NOT happy with D~V's QUAD releases thus far could care less about his impeccable mastering, etc. but IMO, he has valiantly attempted to release musical genres, which, while NOT universally appealing, do embrace a diversity unparalleled in a modern digital surround format.

And I voted NO: that D~V should refrain from releasing QUAD SACDs with inferior mixes ......... release them in hi res stereo instead or risk the criticisms from QQ posters who probably rarely play those 70's QUAD formats with INFERIOR REMIXES for that specific reason.
 
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