STEVE HACKETT - GENESIS REVISITED LIVE - SECONDS OUT & MORE (Out in September 2022)

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rugene

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I was going to maybe skip this one as already have most SH albums and have 3 of his live bluray's and have the SW one which I have enjoyed as was also same concert I was fortunate to see live in Vancouver when SH came here in 2019.

HMMM, so what you are telling me is not to skip this one.
What is it that you prefer over SW mix?
Is it the song selection or do you actually prefer the surround mix.
I thought that the SW mix was unbalanced most surround sounds were coming from one channel. There is more activity in both channels for the King mix. In the SW mix, it was the sax of Towsend that we hear a lot as for King you get more activity from other instruments.
 

AYanguas

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The Seconds Out last Bluray has (again?) the LFE inverted? (I found a noticeable bass difference when tweaking the AVR /SUB for that)

The previous Studio Hackett album (surrender of silence) had also LFE inverted.

At least, the Hackett guitar sounds good now, not so loose as with the Steven Wilson mix.

I wonder how these kind of glitches can appear in the final released product. Is it lack of Quality Control? Or if any people do QA, do they not understand, or do not know that music, or do not critical listen Audio?
 

paligap

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The Seconds Out last Bluray has (again?) the LFE inverted? (I found a noticeable bass difference when tweaking the AVR /SUB for that)

The previous Studio Hackett album (surrender of silence) had also LFE inverted.

At least, the Hackett guitar sounds good now, not so loose as with the Steven Wilson mix.

I wonder how these kind of glitches can appear in the final released product. Is it lack of Quality Control? Or if any people do QA, do they not understand, or do not know that music, or do not critical listen Audio?
As far as I know, the only way to determine if channels are inverted is to analyze waveforms. What tweaks did you make to your AVR and sub?
 

AYanguas

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As far as I know, the only way to determine if channels are inverted is to analyze waveforms. What tweaks did you make to your AVR and sub?

This are the waveforms on Audacity of the DTS-HD demuxed track converted to FLAC. At 03:49 total time in the song "Clocks". Looking into the rest of whole concert it looks the same.

1667748225448.png


The LFE is inverted with respect to Front Channels, and even to surround channels. And there is enough LFE volume level. More controversy about the use or not of LFE content for music.

To correct this, one easy way would be to change the phase 180º in the SUB (if the setting is available), so the LFE is aligned again. But I’m afraid this would invert also the bass coming from the SMALL speakers on Bass Management from the AVR. So the net effect could be unpredictable?

But It happens now that I have my SUB broken (periodic bumps each second when it is powered on. Some capacitor or whatever must be gone out in the power or in the SUB amp). So I have now the AVR configured without SUB and with all speakers set to LARGE, except the Atmos ceiling Tops. This way I have just discovered that the LFE content is redirected not only to the two fronts but also to the two Side Surrounds. ... And it looks that I have not any more the peak and valley bass Rumble when I move away from my MLP. It would work as having 4 SUBs (!) Easier to calibrate?

In this situation, I adjust the Denon setting of Audio/Bass Sync delay to about 10ms, and the Bass increases a little and gives a more pleasant listening to me.

As a reference 6 ms correspond to half wave at 80Hz and 12 ms to half wave at 40Hz.

EDIT: Of course the best correction would be to edit the LFE channel, invert it, and rebuild the container file of the Blu-ray. Does Steve Hackett deserves this from my time?
 
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paligap

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This are the waveforms on Audacity of the DTS-HD demuxed track converted to FLAC. At 03:49 total time in the song "Clocks". Looking into the rest of whole concert it looks the same.

View attachment 85082

The LFE is inverted with respect to Front Channels, and even to surround channels. And there is enough LFE volume level. More controversy about the use or not of LFE content for music.

To correct this, one easy way would be to change the phase 180º in the SUB (if the setting is available), so the LFE is aligned again. But I’m afraid this would invert also the bass coming from the SMALL speakers on Bass Management from the AVR. So the net effect could be unpredictable?

But It happens now that I have my SUB broken (periodic bumps each second when it is powered on. Some capacitor or whatever must be gone out in the power or in the SUB amp). So I have now the AVR configured without SUB and with all speakers set to LARGE, except the Atmos ceiling Tops. This way I have just discovered that the LFE content is redirected not only to the two fronts but also to the two Side Surrounds. ... And it looks that I have not any more the peak and valley bass Rumble when I move away from my MLP. It would work as having 4 SUBs (!) Easier to calibrate?

In this situation, I adjust the Denon setting of Audio/Bass Sync delay to about 10ms, and the Bass increases a little and gives a more pleasant listening to me.

As a reference 6 ms correspond to half wave at 80Hz and 12 ms to half wave at 40Hz.

EDIT: Of course the best correction would be to edit the LFE channel, invert it, and rebuild the container file of the Blu-ray. Does Steve Hackett deserves this from my time?
That does appear to be an absolute or approximate inversion of the LFE channel. If it's the same on all songs, Music Media Helper might be the easiest way to correct it. I think it goes without saying that we should not have to make such corrections. Thanks for pointing this out.

Edit: I might be misremembering this, but there could be two explanations for this type of problem. One is a simple inversion of one or more channels relative to others. Another is a delay of one or more channels relative to others. I don't know enough to determine what is the case here, but I wonder if the wave forms at the beginnings of the songs might offer a clue.
 
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NYMo

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Random thoughts about this Blu-ray.....

1. Is a lady really going to sing all the Genesis songs ?
No.... Luckily she only sung a soprano vocal on Steves' Hierophant !

2. The band play really well and are very tight.

3. I'll put money on the fact that the keyboard player last smiled at least 25 years ago !
He wouldn't be happy to have to learn all Tony Banks hard keyboard bits which he did with aplomb.

4. Steve is small of stature, which isn't obvious till he stands with his band mates for the encore.

5. The sax/multi instrumentalist is the only one who's having fun on stage.
( I should have known by the wooden spoon with the smiley face attached to his mixer.)

6. The big Swedish ( US born) bass player plays the Mike Rutherford role really well including
some tasty 12 string work on his twin neck 12 string/bass

7. Why do I always cry when they play Afterglow ??
I did that with Genesis too when I saw them in the 80s

8. It really becomes apparent what a great singer Peter Gabriel actually was when you
hear Nad Sylvans vocals. Nad had to keep up with Gabriels' octave jumps to head voice, which I thought he did pretty well.

9. Kudos to the band for the fantastic versions they did of, Lamb Lies Down, Sqonk, Firth of Fifth and
especially Suppers Ready which was absolutely stunning.

10. Steve is the master of sustain !

11. Now you have no excuse not to get this ..it's brilliant !
 

AYanguas

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Random thoughts about this Blu-ray.....

......

And Steve Hackett seems to be very nice and approachable, as indicated by some of my acquaintances who have interviewed him.

He looks really happy, I think, specially since he married Jo Lehmann, the sister of the singer Amanda.

For me, It is also something exceptional that after so many years we can witness the Genesis music of the 70's that was so important to me when I was young, precisely by one of its members accompanied by other exceptional musicians.
 

rugene

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I know that people who pay to say him in concert want hear the Genesis material, but I wish he can do a show from his entire catalogue in the future. It would be a change after listening to the same Genesis songs over the years. He could still play some Genesis in the encore.
 

Blackwood

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I know that people who pay to say him in concert want hear the Genesis material, but I wish he can do a show from his entire catalogue in the future. It would be a change after listening to the same Genesis songs over the years. He could still play some Genesis in the encore.
Fully agree. There are a few artists I like who have such a huge back-catalog of music, there ends up being whole eras that are completely ignored now.

Although I think Hackett once said that when it comes to getting promoters to book shows, they’re pushing him to continue the Genesis theme because they feel it ensures stronger ticket sales. So he felt he’s kind of at their mercy because without promoter support, it’s hard to book a financially viable tour.

I think he’s managed to fudge this a bit by doing some older solo albums in full and mix in some new songs, but it still has to be wrapped under a “Genesis Revisited” banner to make promoters happy. (And probably makes a ton of fans happy, too.)
 

fourml8r

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I know that people who pay to say him in concert want hear the Genesis material, but I wish he can do a show from his entire catalogue in the future. It would be a change after listening to the same Genesis songs over the years. He could still play some Genesis in the encore.
the tour he is doing now is a mix of genesis and his solo work.
 
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