First post, setup questions

[Likido]

Hello,

Long time lurker, first time poster here. First off, love this place....I've found out about many releases that I never would have known of.

I've got a modest collection of surround material, most of it in the Prog genre (ELP, Yes, Genesis, etc.) plus a few random other titles. So, I want to get a setup going for playback (currently just using my DVD player for 5.1, almost all my discs are DVD-A).

So, I'll describe the end result I am trying to achieve, any thoughts I might have about how to achieve it, and any suggestions would be appreciated.

I want to have all of my Prog music (stereo and 5.1) on a drive (assuming USB) to some player (I'm assuming the files will need to be FLAC?) so that I can, for example pull up my "Yes" folder, and I can play all my files of that artist.

Simple enough, I would think. But there's a few twists, I would need to be able to rip all the files, do some edits to them (I've worked with digital audio a good amount over the years but in the stereo realm), and also find a decent way to make reasonable up mixes for titles that do not exist in 5.1.

So, in the case of my "Yes" folder, I could rip and edit Relayer, have that in 5.1, and then (assuming I continue playing the files in that folder) next up is Going for the One, which does not (yet...fingers crossed) exist as a 5.1 mix, but I'd have my faux surround mix, and so on.

OK so, this presents 3 major factors, as far as I can see.


1) what player to use...I'm sure Oppo would be what many suggest but I think that'll be out of my price range. I'm thinking the Sony UBP-X800 would work?

2) what software to rip the audio (a few will be Blu-Ray, most DVD/DTS)....is Foobar the way to go? And also I'm guessing I could use any DAW that can edit 6 tracks, guessing FLAC format?

3) what method/software I could employ to make faux-surround mixes for those I don't have?

There ar ancillary issues such as speakers/setup/room acoustics and whatnot to consider, but those are issues I think I can sort through on my own.

That being the end goal, am I thinking about this whole thing right, am I missing something? Any guidance/suggestions greatly appreciated.

Thanks

 

[Snood]

Hiya Likido welcome to QQ from the lurking zone

Should be quite a few people jumping in soon to answer for ya.

 

[dr. simple]

Likido:

QQ member HomerJAU has written a number of articles on this forum that answer most of your questions (except for those about upmixing - but there are lots of experts on that here, too). I suggest you start here: Media Players. If you're a lurker you know that many of us here have converted our entire collections to digital files, so I'm sure you'll get plenty of help. Good luck!

Paul

 

[marpow]

For ripping DVD I use DVD-Audio Extractor, DVDAE
For ripping Blu Ray Audio, I use MakeMKV for the rip and Music Media Helper for the tagging. MakeMKV & Music Media Helper
I have no experience with upmixing.
Yes, if you save your ripped files you can play them via a USB stick to OPPO or other mch capable receivers or external DAC's.
I suggest getting an external harddrive and have a player such as JRiver, what I use or Foobar.
JRiver has a setting where you can play all stereo files in pseudo surround. I don't use as I happen to like stereo.
Welcome to the party, every one I communicate with here is super nice.

 

[markshan]

If you are going to rip them all to FLAC, why not just put together a media PC instead of getting a player? Run Foobar for playback. Find a decent Win 7 box for next to nothing.

 

[sjcorne]

I'm no expert on upmixing, but I think SpecWeb is the simplest tool for that- It's a simple drag and drop program. The fancier upmixes use more advanced programs like Izotope RX-7 and Penteo.

Audacity is the simplest program to edit the multi-channel files.

You can easily convert DVD-A to FLAC for free with DVD-A Explorer and Foobar.

 

[Clint Eastwood]

Welcome to the forum

 

[dr. simple]

This thread has me wondering... Although many of us use software, such as Foobar, JRiver, or Kodi, I recently helped @DennisMabry get set up with just a Western Digital 8TB external hard drive connected to his Oppo via USB.

First off, using an Oppo connected to an external drive doesn't do what @Likido wants it to do. Unless there's a trick that Dennis and I haven't figured out, you can't make playlists or line things up to play in a certain order. Using some kind of computer and software creates all kinds of flexibility that I never imagined, much like what Likido is looking for.

Secondly, if simply having access to an entire collection is the goal (without all the benefits of software), what other players besides Oppo do a good job of playing files from an external drive?

 

[Likido]

If you are going to rip them all to FLAC, why not just put together a media PC instead of getting a player? Run Foobar for playback. Find a decent Win 7 box for next to nothing.

Yeah this occurred to me, and might be the way to go especially considering my desire to have playlists and whatnot. I kind of wanted a more “conventional” solution so that my setup doubles as both my regular home theater and surround listening. Also might work better in that I could just use a software solution to get my faux-surround mixes in real time instead of having to create new files,

 

[markshan]

Yeah this occurred to me, and might be the way to go especially considering my desire to have playlists and whatnot. I kind of wanted a more “conventional” solution so that my setup doubles as both my regular home theater and surround listening. Also might work better in that I could just use a software solution to get my faux-surround mixes in real time instead of having to create new files,

Well, if you want faux mixes in real time, there should be a button on your receiver that can able to accomplish that to some degree regardless of playback device. I like having my playback on PC because sometimes I'll Google for info about the recording that is currently being played. Of course you can do that on your phone, but it's all just choices.

 

[Likido]

Well, if you want faux mixes in real time, there should be a button on your receiver that can able to accomplish that...

Surely, but (AFAIK) I can't setup a playlist that will accomplish what I want to do...Basically I'm trying to achieve a setup whereby I can decide I'm in the mood to listen to (let's say) Sting for a while. I can get in my chair, grab my remote, pull up my Sting folder (on whatever type setup I'm using....hence this thread) and play any /and or all files. Anything that's MCH is played as such and anything that's stereo is played as faux. The key to me is it being a seamless and immersive experience, not wanting to get up to change discs or settings and whatnot.

I'm beginning to suspect a PC based setup is the way to go, just wanted to see what ideas and options were put there for that scenario.

 

[LuvMyQuad]

Surely, but (AFAIK) I can't setup a playlist that will accomplish what I want to do...Basically I'm trying to achieve a setup whereby I can decide I'm in the mood to listen to (let's say) Sting for a while. I can get in my chair, grab my remote, pull up my Sting folder (on whatever type setup I'm using....hence this thread) and play any /and or all files. Anything that's MCH is played as such and anything that's stereo is played as faux. The key to me is it being a seamless and immersive experience, not wanting to get up to change discs or settings and whatnot.

I'm beginning to suspect a PC based setup is the way to go, just wanted to see what ideas and options were put there for that scenario.

You can do exactly that using something like Kodi and an AVR that offers default surround modes. I use a media PC running Kodi with all media saved to a NAS. My pre/pro can be set to provide different default surround modes for different inputs (I think the vast majority can do this). When I select a 5.1 track in Kodi, the default mode is "direct" and the track plays in 5.1. When I select a stereo track the default mode is Dolby PLII and the track plays in faux surround. I can easily make a playlist of mixed formats and play it all with the pre/pro switching modes as needed. The only hiccup is the different volume level of the various tracks, but there is a way to handle that as well I believe.

 

[dr. simple]

You can do exactly that using something like Kodi and an AVR that offers default surround modes. I use a media PC running Kodi with all media saved to a NAS. My pre/pro can be set to provide different default surround modes for different inputs (I think the vast majority can do this). When I select a 5.1 track in Kodi, the default mode is "direct" and the track plays in 5.1. When I select a stereo track the default mode is Dolby PLII and the track plays in faux surround. I can easily make a playlist of mixed formats and play it all with the pre/pro switching modes as needed. The only hiccup is the different volume level of the various tracks, but there is a way to handle that as well I believe.

Yes - regarding different volume levels, replay gain data in the tags will remedy this, which I learned about on this forum, of course. It's pretty fantastic, in my opinion.

Regarding the playback modes, your AVR won't do this automatically, will it? In other words, it won't go from direct for 5.1 to PLII for stereo tracks without your input, will it?

 

[LuvMyQuad]

Yes - regarding different volume levels, replay gain data in the tags will remedy this, which I learned about on this forum, of course. It's pretty fantastic, in my opinion.

Regarding the playback modes, your AVR won't do this automatically, will it? In other words, it won't go from direct for 5.1 to PLII for stereo tracks without your input, will it?

Yes. It does that automatically. I don't have an AVR, I have an Emotiva pre/pro. It allows for setting a default surround mode based on format. I thought it was a common feature, no?

 

[dr. simple]

Yes. It does that automatically. I don't have an AVR, I have an Emotiva pre/pro. It allows for setting a default surround mode based on format. I thought it was a common feature, no?

You know, now that I think about it, you're right. My AVR automatically switches modes, but it drove me crazy because it cut off the beginning of each song and I could hear my AVR clicking away, trying to figure out which mode to use. I changed the settings on my NUC to always output 5.1 and it solved the problem. But for me, I'm not a big fan of PLII simulated surround, so I hear stereo when it's stereo and multichannel when it's multichannel.

 

[LuvMyQuad]

You know, now that I think about it, you're right. My AVR automatically switches modes, but it drove me crazy because it cut off the beginning of each song and I could hear my AVR clicking away, trying to figure out which mode to use. I changed the settings on my NUC to always output 5.1 and it solved the problem. But for me, I'm not a big fan of PLII simulated surround, so I hear stereo when it's stereo and multichannel when it's multichannel.

Yeah, mine will often cut off the first second or two of the track when it switches modes. I also am not a PLII fan. its too unpredictable. It works well for some stereo tracks, and poorly with others.

 

[marpow]

You know, now that I think about it, you're right. My AVR automatically switches modes, but it drove me crazy because it cut off the beginning of each song and I could hear my AVR clicking away, trying to figure out which mode to use. I changed the settings on my NUC to always output 5.1 and it solved the problem. But for me, I'm not a big fan of PLII simulated surround, so I hear stereo when it's stereo and multichannel when it's multichannel.

Very interesting Paul. A few questions.
Where do you do the switch to 5.1 on the NUC.
If the NUC is switched to 5.1 and I want to play stereo will that be a problem? (I go USB out to my external DAC for stereo and HDMI out to my AVR for all surround).
I have my JRiver set to a 1 second buffering before start of album or song if I start in middle of another album. If I load my player say with 3 albums it only buffers on the first track of the first album.
I happen to like the clicks because it tells me everything is going to work. I hate to admit it even though I been playing digital files for a year now I still have little quirks on playback that seems to almost be normal.
I know for sure my NUC and JRiver software like to be run from my remote PC much better than from the JRiver app on my iPad.

 

[LuvMyQuad]

Very interesting Paul. A few questions.
Where do you do the switch to 5.1 on the NUC.
If the NUC is switched to 5.1 and I want to play stereo will that be a problem? (I go USB out to my external DAC for stereo and HDMI out to my AVR for all surround).
I have my JRiver set to a 1 second buffering before start of album or song if I start in middle of another album. If I load my player say with 3 albums it only buffers on the first track of the first album.
I happen to like the clicks because it tells me everything is going to work. I hate to admit it even though I been playing digital files for a year now I still have little quirks on playback that seems to almost be normal.
I know for sure my NUC and JRiver software like to be run from my remote PC much better than from the JRiver app on my iPad.

I believe the good doctor is running Kodi, as I am. Its a setting in Kodi, not the NUC hardware. I can't remember the exact terms, but one option is to specify a fixed output regardless of the actual file format. So, for example, if you specify a fixed output as 24/96, 5.1 channel, everything that is played will be output as 24/96, 5.1, even if it is only 16/44.1 stereo to begin with. Kodi will add the empty channels and increase the bitrate by adding zeros. If the track is actually of higher resolution like 24/192, 5.1, Kodi will transcode the track to 24/96 by removing bits. This allows the AVR to always only see the same incoming format, so it never tries to switch formats.

An alternate option within Kodi allows it to choose the closest output format relative to the file type. If set this way, Kodi will stream 2.0 16/44.1 when that is what the file is. It will also stream 24/96, 5.1 when that is the file format. If it encounters something strange like 20/44.1 it defaults to the closest available format (maybe 16/44.1 ?). However, this type of format switching makes many AVRs drop the first second or two of the track while the AVR adjusts.

JRiver may have the same type of option. Its been years since I played with JRiver, so I cant say for sure.

 

[dr. simple]

Sorry, @marpow - when I said, "On the NUC," I meant, "Before the AVR," and yes - @LuvMyQuad is correct. I'm running Kodi and it has a setting to output everything in 5.1. Everything plays fine, with no problems - 2.0, 4.0, 4.1, 5.1, whatever.

Paul

 

[Likido]

OK so I think I'm getting a handle on this. Bit of a noob so please forgive my unfamiliarity with some lingo and/or terms.

So I can pick up a decent laptop, rip my discs with one or more apps mentioned here, edit the 5.1 mixes with app X, play them back with Kodi (or again app X) and I guess stream the files to an AVR of some sort (or would it be a wired connection?) and just have the playback engine set so that everything will be either actual 5.1 mixes or faux, being source dependent.

Is that pretty much it? If so, any recommendations for a budget friendly AVR?
If not, please elaborate.

BTW, thanks to everyone for all the help and info!