Re: DVD-A Semantics

neil wilkes said:

Sadly, this is not the case as SACD is very expensive to replicate for some reason completely unknown to me.
DVD is a lot cheaper to actually manufacture.
Also, to the label there is absolutely no cost difference except authoring time, as a DVD5/9 is a DVD5/9 no matter what content is actually included.
We could easily get around the CD issue in one of 2 ways:
1 - do a CD/DVD double pack. This gives you both.
2 - include the CD resolution files as FLAC in a data section. Again, as for DVD-A/V over straight DVD-V, there is no cost implication.

@fredblue - DVD-A/V should indeed be the de facto standard for music releases. As you point out, it runs on all DVD players. I have heard it argued by labels that Hybrid SACD is better as it "does not need specialist hardware to run" (Deutsche Gramophon) yet what is an SACD player if not specialised hardware?

Click to expand...

even though they are just DVDs essentially, don't you need a special "key" to get around Sony's SACD encryption/copy-protection bollocks, which is proprietary to them and expensive, in order to replicate them.. and that's why no pressing plants make the damn things anymore?

really? what a load of old shite! of course SACD is very specialised! that's part of its failure! people needed to buy new hardware all over again!

by the time I started seriously collecting DTS CDs I already had access to at least 6 different machines (CD & DVD players) that could play them back in some shape or form in 5.1.. and as for DVDA I was able to play all those back in DTS/DD long before I got a Universal player with DVDA Adv Res capabilities, even on my Mac -- and then enjoy them all over again in superior quality from the same disc once I'd gone DVDA! how much more "versatile" can you get!?

all I could do with my SACD discs before I got an SACD player was listen to the (often compressed & poorly remastered) redbook layer on the hybrid discs - and lovingly look at the single layer ones, or use them as expensive drinks coasters!

plus there are millions more players out there that are DVDA(compatible) than there are SACD capable.. The arguments against DVDA are just complete bull, I don't buy them at all.

tarkusnj said:

My comments were not directed towards Neil, just the music industry concerning their handling and marketing of the DVD-A format. Hey, I would love to see Neil at work! I am always looking to learn from someone with such a background.

Click to expand...

fair enough, tarkusnj, my apologies, it just came across that way, so I stood up to defend a fellow QQ member who's presence & what he does mean a great deal.

I still feel there's plenty more good stuff to come from Neil & his company, so I'd keep a look out for what he's upto.. but not just from him, also other industry guys who are similarly keeping the flag flying for DVDA - its the obvious candidate for the future of 5.1 imo. if only the labels would wake up & smell the friggin' coffee..!!

blu-ray is still too costly to produce and SACD for anything other than classical is a non-starter too. DVDA all the way-hay-ay..!!

0tto said:

it's also compatible with blu ray, PC, Mac and as Neill mentioned above, can deliver any other format (flac, aac, mp3, etc.)
i don't see necessity even in CD. really, how many of you still use raw CD players, since all other players utilize CDs playback.
seems like even all new cars now come without such but DVD or digital media console.

back in 97 or 98 it was very close to this. DVD Forum was ready to declare DVD-Audio as a next carrier for audio which will
phase out and replace CD. only the members of the DVD Forum, who voted against was Sony and Philips and be guess why

Click to expand...

Totally agree on the CD front, Otto. i've transferred all my CDs in Apple Lossless & stored them on my Mac Mini, I never play the CDs themselves anymore.

However, I'm still forced to use my universal player because I cannot find an alternative, easy and cheap way to store and playback all my SACDs & DVDAs just as if they were from the discs themselves, using my Mac. Tedious.

fredblue said:

blu-ray is still too costly to produce and SACD for anything other than classical is a non-starter too. DVDA all the way-hay-ay..!!

Click to expand...

My fear of Blu-ray being the next hi-rez audio format is that I listen to these discs in my cars a lot and unless someone comes out with a blu-ray player for the car that also will play DVD-A and SACD would be a plus, I will be bummed out!

fredblue said:

However, I'm still forced to use my universal player because I cannot find an alternative, easy and cheap way to store and playback all my SACDs & DVDAs just as if they were from the discs themselves, using my Mac. Tedious.

Click to expand...

foobar has add-on UPnP/DLNA Renderer which supposed to integrate this player into home wireless or wired media playback system.

tarkusnj said:

My fear of Blu-ray being the next hi-rez audio format is that I listen to these discs in my cars a lot and unless someone comes out with a blu-ray player for the car that also will play DVD-A and SACD would be a plus, I will be bummed out!

Click to expand...

most likely there wouldn't be such. more simple and logical solution for manufacturers is a digital medium console which
will works with bunch of different formats and has ability to be upgraded through firmware patches.

tarkusnj said:

My fear of Blu-ray being the next hi-rez audio format is that I listen to these discs in my cars a lot and unless someone comes out with a blu-ray player for the car that also will play DVD-A and SACD would be a plus, I will be bummed out!

Click to expand...

Oppo! come to the rescue & come up with an in-car universal blu-ray player with M/C SACD & DVDA playback!

0tto said:

foobar has add-on UPnP/DLNA Renderer which supposed to integrate this player into home wireless or wired media playback system.


most likely there wouldn't be such. more simple and logical solution for manufacturers is a digital medium console which
will works with bunch of different formats and has ability to be upgraded through firmware patches.

Click to expand...

does Foobar work on the Mac OS, Otto?

0tto said:

foobar has add-on UPnP/DLNA Renderer which supposed to integrate this player into home wireless or wired media playback system.


most likely there wouldn't be such. more simple and logical solution for manufacturers is a digital medium console which
will works with bunch of different formats and has ability to be upgraded through firmware patches.

Click to expand...

oh yes! an upgradeable multi platform digital interface would be the logical next step - dunno what the chances of it being hi-res/5.1 compatible would be, unless it was open source/hackable, etc I just don't know enough about the advances in this kind of tech..?!?

fredblue said:

does Foobar work on the Mac OS, Otto?

Click to expand...

probably not, but i'm not sure.
if there no Mac version, you may run on your Mac machine some sort virtual Win OS or just buy inexpensive laptop
for this purpose. actually it's quite convenient for those, who heavily uses their entertaiment system.

0tto said:

probably not, but i'm not sure.
if there no Mac version, you may run on your Mac machine some sort virtual Win OS or just buy inexpensive laptop
for this purpose. actually it's quite convenient for those, who heavily uses their entertaiment system.

Click to expand...

it's a new Intel Mac Mini so I could run Parallels (Windows emulator for Mac) or boot it up in Windows, so doing that or just buying a cheap PC might well be the answer, Otto, thank you for your help

0tto said:

probably not, but i'm not sure.
if there no Mac version, you may run on your Mac machine some sort virtual Win OS or just buy inexpensive laptop
for this purpose. actually it's quite convenient for those, who heavily uses their entertaiment system.

Click to expand...

I am not sure what Foobar does. Enlighten me please? I downloaded it years ago but it did not serve whatever purpose I was seeking a solution for and I have forgotten what it is Foobar actually does.

tarkusnj said:

I am not sure what Foobar does. Enlighten me please? I downloaded it years ago but it did not serve whatever purpose I was seeking a solution for and I have forgotten what it is Foobar actually does.

Click to expand...

I think it's a PC Media Player, tarkus. I'm looking into it now

tarkusnj said:

I am not sure what Foobar does. Enlighten me please? I downloaded it years ago but it did not serve whatever purpose I was seeking a solution for and I have forgotten what it is Foobar actually does.

Click to expand...

perhaps at present most advanced and flexible audio player. since it's open source project, it has lots of contributors in development.
plays virtually everything, including DVDA (from folder or .iso) MLP, DTS, DD, DTS HDMA, DSD, DIFF, DST (as files so from .iso), HDCD,
can detect and remove "watermark" from DVDA, ripp and convert tracks from DVDA and SACD, etc. i won't list other formats lossless
and lossy, familiar to foobar, as such list would be too long.

0tto said:

perhaps at present most advanced and flexible audio player. since it's open source project, it has lots of contributors in development.
plays virtually everything, including DVDA (from folder or .iso) MLP, DTS, DD, DTS HDMA, DSD, DIFF, DST (as files so from .iso), HDCD,
can detect and remove "watermark" from DVDA, ripp and convert tracks from DVDA and SACD, etc. i won't list other formats lossless
and lossy, familiar to foobar, as such list would be too long.

Click to expand...

it can rip & convert SACDs..?!? :banana:

I'd like to begin converting. A few days ago, I integrated my iMac into my main A/V system. I'm on OS X. If anyone has any tips, please post it here or PM me. Thanks!

The new problem is where to stick my Teac 3300. Believe it or not, I have 32 pieces, including a 60" Plasma on 15' x 6' of shelving and no more room. It looks like the reel will be on an additional stand 'round the corner. Sad, 'cause it looks so pretty! One of these days, I'll post photos on my profile.

We now return you to the spinning organ of Keith Emerson.

"I ended up with too much stuff." - Eric Bibb

fredblue said:

it can rip & convert SACDs..?!? :banana:

Click to expand...

not really in the meaning as you expect. factory replicated SACDs still not accessible for PC, Mac DVD drives
(albeit i heard there were Sony's laptops with such drives) but you can ripp the tracks from image (SACD-R)
and convert them in any other format of your choice

fredblue said:

it can rip & convert SACDs..?!? :banana:

Click to expand...

It can rip SACD's?????? Are you sure about that one?

When I say rip SACD, I am looking for ripping them to individual wav files or any individual files. I know how to burn SACD from DSF files but I want to do the reverse, convert ripped DSF to wavs.

0tto said:

not really in the meaning as you expect. factory replicated SACDs still not accessible for PC, Mac DVD drives
(albeit i heard there were Sony's laptops with such drivers) but you can ripp the tracks from image (SACD-R)
and convert them in any other format of your choice

Click to expand...

so to playback the Hi-Res 5.1 from a DVDA in Foobar, do you just drag over the AUDIO_TS file and copy it to your hard drive? and away you go..?!?

tarkusnj said:

When I say rip SACD, I am looking for ripping them to individual wav files or any individual files. I know how to burn SACD from DSF files but I want to do the reverse, convert ripped DSF to wavs.

Click to expand...

yeap, in any configuration - mono, stereo, 4.0, 5.1, as separate tracks or merged to single, .wav, flac, aac, etc.
as i said above - it's very flexible and works through those donated add-ons.

fredblue said:

so to playback the Hi-Res 5.1 from a DVDA in Foobar, do you just drag over the AUDIO_TS file and copy it to your hard drive? and away you go..?!?

Click to expand...

you may use physical disc, ripp AUDIO_TS folder to HDD, ripp DVDA to .iso, extract and save MLP streams from disc to HDD...
in any case foobar will plays.

perhaps we went too far off topic.