Re: DVD-A Semantics

QuadraphonicQuad

Help Support QuadraphonicQuad:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Does anyone here remember 6 channel analogue output? COMEON!! Six separate, individual channels, no ".1".
That was how DVD-Audio started!
I feel like I am talking to some relative DVD-Audio "newbies" here.
Don't mind me...I only say what I know which isn't always correct..but I believe I am in this case.
Is this a "you say tomato I say potato" thing? Just kidding. A guy said that to me the other day and it sounded hilarious. You may be correct but in common layman terms I would refer to it as "5.1 DVD-Audio". And I would use that to describe surround DVD-Audio as opposed to stereo (or 4.0, or 4.1, or 3.0 or whatever) DVD-Audio. It's the language that I know and that I would expect that others would know. The ".1" tells me that there is a channel that is dedicated to the subwoofer. Why would I want to speak in a different language that only adds confusion when there is already an established understanding?
 
You are correct Mr.Tarkusnj. I was using a 6 channel analogue output for years even with and an Outlaw ICBM which provided bass managment before bass management players and HDMI.Back then my dvd audio player display would always read DVD audio 6.0 channels. Different then dvd movies that would read 5.1.

Interesting.

None of my DVD-A discs in any of the DVD-A players I've seen have reported 6.0. They all report (up to) 5.1. Also the analog outs for the sixth channel all say "Subwoofer" or somthing like that.

So what were the channel assignments on these 6.0 channels??? Where did you put the 6th channel ( I assume you put the other in the standard places)?

ELP -BSS which was one of the earliest DVD-As has tracks in 5.0 and 5.1.

Most DVD-As are 5.1, some are 4.0, 4.1 or 5.0....

Some 6.1 titles (Medeski, Martin and wood) have been done that are 6.1 (DTS ES) on DVD-V but 5.1 for DVD-A...
 
Having a ".1" channel is like cutting a crumb in half.
You don't have two ".5" crumbs, you have two crumbs.
DVD-A has 6 channels.
You could put the Beatles singing the Star Spangled Banner to the tune of Let It Be
on that track!
I think a ".1" is a misnomer.
It is an LFE channel just like 1 is a Left Front etc.
How to you get 1/10th of a channel??
 
I'll say no more...

5 + .1 = 6 :)

Back on topic..... can't wait fo these titles as 5.1 DVD-As (and hopefully Trilogy & PAAE as a 5.1 DVD-As too!!)
 
You are correct Mr.Tarkusnj. I was using a 6 channel analogue output for years even with and an Outlaw ICBM which provided bass managment before bass management players and HDMI.Back then my dvd audio player display would always read DVD audio 6.0 channels. Different then dvd movies that would read 5.1.

I don't think all of us(?) that LOVE DVD-Audio even understand what it is. Another reason why the format didn't thrive. I am trying to explain what the format is to a bunch of guys who are into DVD-A and they don't even get it.
COMEON GUYS!! DO YOUR HOMEWORK!
 
I'll say no more...

5 + .1 = 6 :)

Back on topic..... can't wait fo these titles as 5.1 DVD-As (and hopefully Trilogy & PAAE as a 5.1 DVD-As too!!)

You certainly failed math!

And my next on the wish list would be PAAE. That live recording was MUCH better than WBMF. And hearing the title track "Trilogy" in surround would be what it has deserved for years. Anyone ever hear ELP perform Trilogy live?
 
Having a ".1" channel is like cutting a crumb in half.
You don't have two ".5" crumbs, you have two crumbs.
DVD-A has 6 channels.
You could put the Beatles singing the Star Spangled Banner to the tune of Let It Be
on that track!
I think a ".1" is a misnomer.
It is an LFE channel just like 1 is a Left Front etc.
How to you get 1/10th of a channel??
I still think "5.1" tells me more about the recording than "6.0". The ".1" tells me that one of the 6 channels is mixed for the subwoofer.

Okay, suppose we agree to call it "6.0". Exactly what does that tell me about the recording? Is there a channel for the subwoofer? I don't know. How is calling it "6.0" better? What information does that give me that I don't get by calling it "5.1"?
 
Having a ".1" channel is like cutting a crumb in half.
You don't have two ".5" crumbs, you have two crumbs.
DVD-A has 6 channels.
You could put the Beatles singing the Star Spangled Banner to the tune of Let It Be
on that track!
I think a ".1" is a misnomer.
It is an LFE channel just like 1 is a Left Front etc.
How to you get 1/10th of a channel??

Bob gets it...nobody else does???
 
If u read the wiki you'll see that 5.1 is really 6 full channels. This argument is unproductive
The same person who wrote that on Wiki is on this thread. The majority of people explaining the format are don't know what they are talking about. Where is Neil when we need him...I give up.
 
Moderator....clean up on aisle 3 (again)...

(not that the discussion isn't interesting...it is, very...just belongs over where there other posts went!)
 
This really belongs in the tech forums, not here, as it is very important & has actually been discussed before.
However, it appears it is time to do it again as it often comes up.

Firstly, the LFE channel (or the .1 as it is called) is not the same thing as a subwoofer channel. Please read - carefully - the attached document from Dolby Labs.
View attachment LFE.pdf
5.1 refers to the channel count in a mix - 5 main channels, and an extra channel (the .1 is discrete, and is a 6th channel, but is called .1 as it takes up approximately a tenth of the bandwidth of a "normal" full-range channel.

The purpose of the .1 channel is to extend the bass response below 20Hz.
The purpose of a subwoofer is to reproduce frequencies the other speakers cannot reproduce, and depending on the system the crossover point can be as much as 250Hz and even higher, and is used in sub/satellite systems and the output will as a result always be a compromise because both the subwoofer and LFE channels are non directional. SO, to use an example, if you have a mix that is a true 5.1 mix, played back on a sub/satellite setup, you may well have phasing problems caused by the system being used re-routing bass from the 5 main channels into the sub, which will automatically conflict with LFE channel content. Depending on the phasing, you may gain or lose bass content and any bass content that was deliberately panned in the mix will lose all that effect rresulting in a very odd sounding mix. Bass Management needs to be set up carefully. Very carefully.

5.1 does not necessarily mean DVD-A, but 5.1 mixes can be authored to DVD-A. DVD-A can take any channel count from mono (not advised) to 5.1 and just about anywhere inbetween including 3.0 as L/R/S and L/C/R as well as all main channels plus the .1, the correct usage of is down to the mastering engineer to deal with.
 
Thanks Neil.

The biggest misunderstanding seems to be that the .1 (LFE) channel is for low frequencies, period. It is specifically for LOUD low frequencies! LFE means Low Frequency Effects, with the key word here being Effects.

The .1 (LFE) channel is intended for low frequencies that are up to 10 dB stronger than any of the other channels. All the other channels can contain full range frequencies (down to 0 Hz), but only the .1 can contain sounds with a huge amplitude, used in movies typically for earth quakes and explosions.

That is why the .1 channel mostly is not needed for music. (Although I would love to see a 4.1 recording of the 1812 Overture, with the full extra 10 dB being used for the cannons...)
 
Bob Squires Jr said:
I think a ".1" is a misnomer.
It is an LFE channel just like 1 is a Left Front etc.
How to you get 1/10th of a channel??
Bob gets it...nobody else does???

As Neil writes: "the .1 is discrete, and is a 6th channel, but is called .1 as it takes up approximately a tenth of the bandwidth of a "normal" full-range channel."
 
As Neil writes: "the .1 is discrete, and is a 6th channel, but is called .1 as it takes up approximately a tenth of the bandwidth of a "normal" full-range channel."

Yep - as I said 5 + .1 = 6 (channels)
 
Back
Top