Advice sought by novice re: speakers

[Stephen250S]

Hi one and all,
I am seeking advice, perhaps someone on this forum could help? I have an old Sanyo DC6100K 4 channel system that I am quite content with. It might not be the best system, but, as I say, I am quite satisfied with it. My problem is that the speakers are too large. What problems will I encounter if I try to replace them with smaller, bookshelf-type speakers?
Also, I am not terribly familiar with upper end hi fi gear these days, and have been looking a various sites regarding speaker performance. Needless to say, there is a lot to digest and I am really not any wiser. I am hoping to be able to afford middle of the road speakers and have been looking at Bose, B&W, Dali, PolkAudio and similar, aiming to keep costs down to around $1500. (for 4) Is this realistic?
I suppose the proof of the pudding is in the eating, and ultimately I need to listen to them, but if the source is a modern digital amp, is it a good guide?
Finally, I have a wide taste in music, from classical and folk/accoustic through to harder edge rock.
So, there's the challenge, any suggestions would be gratefully received.
Best wishes,
Stephen.

 

[mtgc]

You can find many speakers for your price range, in "bookshelf" sizes. You should have no problems with swapping your new smaller speakers for your older larger ones, assuming your new smaller speakers are all the same impedance. As a general rule, you should stick to the same type and size of speakers for the 4 channels.
As an added bonus, you can list your old speakers on EBay and possibly recoup some of your investment in your new speakers.
As to which brand of speaker is best, you can find just about as many choices here as you have forum members, but I think one can safely say that most name brand speakers are pretty good, and it will depend on your taste to make the final selection.

MTGC (Michael)

 

[Kal Rubinson]

I do not know the Sanyo DC6100K but you should check to see what the output capabilities of the amplifier are. Need to make sure it has adequate power and appropriate impedance for the speakers you choose.

Kal

 

[ndiamone]

And on top of that, make sure that not only does your impedance and power rating (wattage) match, but for extra clarity make sure your speakers have at least a half-over-again wattage above the amplifier (e.g. if you have a 100 watt/channel amp, you need 150 watt/channel speakers.)

 

[BananaSlug]

Most people will say to avoid Bose. I won't say they are all bad, but make sure you have a good listen to them before buying. I went into a Bose shop with a friend (more like followed along) and was surprised that some of the speakers were pretty good. Some were awful, the sales people seemed to know which were which as the bad ones were always cranked to ear bleed level so that the naive would not notice the horrible sound quality. Hey, but they are LOUD! The better of their speakers were simply overpriced (way overpriced).

 

[Stephen250S]

Thanks to everyone for their advice. With respect to the suggestion of getting speakers rated at 150% of amplifier output, under "Output Power" the original sales brochure states "peak music power 144w, music power 108w". How do I decypher this? Is the 108w an RMS value? Is it per channel? (All 4?) Trying to get bookshelf speakers capable of handling 150+ watts might be limiting in choice, or more pricey than I was prepared for.
The impedance of the original speakers is 8 ohm, no worries there.
In order to understand speaker-speak, can someone explain the difference between "frequency response ;40-40000Hz +or- 3dB" and "power bandwidth ; 30-34000Hz" ?
Finally, one of the great features of the internet, is to have instant access all around the world, but a disappointing aspect is seeing the prices paid in, for instance, the US, when you live in Australia. I was looking at Axiom M3's and these were $275US but over $480AUS landed over here. Our exchange rate at the moment is the best it has been for a long time. $1 AUS is getting about US95c at the moment. Surely the freight wouldn't be $200US?
Anyway, thanks again for your assistance.
Stephen

 

[proufo]

Surely the freight wouldn't be $200US?
Anyway, thanks again for your assistance.
Stephen

Shipping, importing and the related expenses are quite high almost anywhere. Particularly for large items such as speakers.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Thanks to everyone for their advice. With respect to the suggestion of getting speakers rated at 150% of amplifier output, under "Output Power" the original sales brochure states "peak music power 144w, music power 108w". How do I decypher this? Is the 108w an RMS value? Is it per channel? (All 4?)

Nonsensical specs. They really say tha the unit has minimal output since they are hiding behind such descriptions. I doubt the device has more than 10-20wpc.

Trying to get bookshelf speakers capable of handling 150+ watts might be limiting in choice, or more pricey than I was prepared for.

Nope. You want speakers that are no more than 150% and that's easy. Actually, the watt ratings are irrelevant: You need to relate the sensitivity of the speakers to the power of the amp but, since there are no such specs, there's no way to do this.

In order to understand speaker-speak, can someone explain the difference between "frequency response ;40-40000Hz +or- 3dB" and "power bandwidth ; 30-34000Hz" ?

The unit will output 40-40000Hz with a variation of no more than +/-3dB but it doesn't say at what power level. Power response means, as they say, a full-power availability from 30-34000Hz but no power level is stated nor is there a +/-Xdb variability stated. In other words, these are pretty useless and irrelevant numbers.

Finally, one of the great features of the internet, is to have instant access all around the world, but a disappointing aspect is seeing the prices paid in, for instance, the US, when you live in Australia. I was looking at Axiom M3's and these were $275US but over $480AUS landed over here.

I am skeptical that your electronics are up to the task of driving decent speakers competently. They will make sounds, though.

Kal

 

[mtgc]

I would agree with the statement that "music power" and "peak music power" are just numbers meaning nothing in the real world. For example, an old 8 transistor 9 volt powered radio could deliver 50 watts of power, but only for a very tiny fraction of a second.
I agree with the estimate that your ampiflier is good for 10 to 20 watts rms. I do not, however, agree with the statement that your equipment will not be up to the task of driving good speakers properly. I think you can get very good sounds out of your amplifier using efficient bookshelf speakers.

MTGC (Michael)

 

[Richo]

A good rough guide is to have a look on the back of your amplifier for a sticker / screenprinted wattage rating near the power lead.

Divide this number by 3 and you have the total wattage RMS for all available amplification channels.

Its a rough guide but surprisingly accurate (well, for solid state gear anyway).

I'd also wager you will get some great sounds out of your sanyo if you use decent bookshelf speakers, 90dB+ rated for sensitivity and about 60 watts RMS. You won't need the all those 60 watts when in quad mode but you will come close in stereo mode.

Cheers, Richo.

 

[Key]

Well there is always the option of powered/active speakers. The downside to this is more plugs - a plug for each speaker instead of just one for the amp.

My choices for bookshelf speakers
Wharfedale Diamond Pro Active 8.2s (my current 4 channel setup)
Quad 11L
Quad 12L
the two quads can also have active/powered versions but I *think* that would put them
out of your price range. I've only auditioned some passives
QPM1 - These are the new reference Quads and are active so I bet they are expensive.
Never auditioned these specific variation but going on the strength of the other Quads
I have had a chance to audition I would look into these. The professional models tend
to have a more accurate crossover and avoid hyping up any range in the spectrum.
I don't know if I trust IAG's home models - the few I've heard seemed to have hyped
high end. But I have seen the home/hifi passive Wharfedales for very cheap.

I've just been a bit of an IAG zealot as of lately. I think I just like the particular sound
of there speakers.

I don't know anything about finding them in Australia. The cheapest price I got in the
states was direct from IAG from the phone number on there site. When I just searched
to look for a price on the QPM1s a second ago one of the links said CMI handles Wharfedale
Pro for Australia so I would assume they handle all IAG pro stuff or could get it for you.
http://www.cmi.com.au/