And then there's that damn center channel...

[Mr. Afternoon]

I find that in lower-end systems that a center channel is absolutely necessary. The fronts alone just don't cut it.
But then again, I'm the one on an audiophile site with tin cans as loudspeakers (relatively).
If your fronts are really good, I'd say you can cut the center, unless you're listening to a really weird mix.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

If your fronts are really good, I'd say you can cut the center, unless you're listening to a really weird mix.

Nah. If you are listening to recordings with a discrete center channel signal, you need a center channel speaker.

 

[LB-V]

I really enjoy the phantom. I used the Tate the other night to watch (and listen) to the first Star Trek of the modern movie series. Always enjoy that film. I finally had to literally unplug the TV to convince myself the tv speakers were not on. It was crazy. Music, same. Love the phantom. Ironically, been playing with the center recently via the SM. No issues. Fun. But when I'm seated in my spot, listening to quad (4.1 more accurately), I really can't tell the difference if the center is going or its phantom. I just enjoy more the phantom concept. Now, with discrete, I'll turn on the center. Seems like I should hear what was intended. Full disclosure, my hearing isn't what it once was and the tinnitus comes with a pleasant whooshing. But it all still sounds good to me.

I'm also alone listening 99.99% of the time. So phantom is no issue there.

 

[Sonnyblu62]

Yes I agree... and I also can't stand the mid tonality of center spkrs... And I hate having to EQ it out. I'm sure all this has been said before here. Thank you for bringing this thread to my attention, I look forward to reading the posts. I want to buy another pair of mains... just to use one for the center, leaving me with an extra speaker.

 

[MTB Vince]

Yes I agree... and I also can't stand the mid tonality of center spkrs... And I hate having to EQ it out. I'm sure all this has been said before here. Thank you for bringing this thread to my attention, I look forward to reading the posts. I want to buy another pair of mains... just to use one for the center, leaving me with an extra speaker.

There is a simple fix for that...

 

[paligap]

I will never understand some people's aversion to center channels (or LFE channels), but different strokes for different folks . . .

 

[MidiMagic]

I will never understand some people's aversion to center channels (or LFE channels), but different strokes for different folks . . .

The fun part is trying to match favorite speakers that have been out of production for years with a different center channel speaker:

- Where the frequency responses differ, the panning of the image changes.
- If my center speaker were the same size as the mains, I would not be able to see the TV.

It is a simple matter to matrix the center channel into the mains just before the power amps.

 

[par4ken]

I will never understand some people's aversion to center channels (or LFE channels), but different strokes for different folks . . .

I hate to say this but because we have two ears. Stereo images perfectly without the extra speaker. Center speakers are only really necessary for larger venues like Movie theatres. Also I have an aversion to odd numbers!

Nothing beats large speakers for stereo and quad. To add a centre speaker it should be exactly matched to the others, typical center speakers designed to sit under a TV just don't cut it for true HI fidelity! Larger full range speakers do not require a sub woofer.

 

[GOS]

I love my center channel speaker...but...

So many mixes that utilize center channel for vocals are just too loud for me. Maybe "stark" is a better word. I often find a great quad mix, or stereo mix very pleasing with how vocals sound from that phantom center.

 

[ssully]

Neither the size nor the position of the screen is of any concern to me because my main multichannel system does not have one. This means that I can accommodate a full-size center speaker identical to my L/R speakers and not an inherently compromised, horizontally-arrayed "dedicated" center speaker. That provides for the recreation of center images with greater clarity and stability and with greater tonal accuracy due to orientation of the source with respect to the head and ears (HRTF).

I think that you are dealing with a different context than I am because of your need to accommodate your "BIG HUNDRED-AND-SIX INCHER, yeee hawww!!!! <ahem> ."

Same here (identical speakers all around) except I do have a screen (TV) in my 'music' room. The TV is mounted correctly (that is, center line is at eye level -- I cringe when I see goofy TV-above-the-fireplace rooms) so when I want to watch it I typically just move the C speaker aside and switch that channel off (reverting to phantom center). Video sound usually just isn't that critical to me, listening-wise; phantom center suffices. I'm mostly watching youtube content anyway. In rare instances -- music/concert video, typically -- I lower the center to underneath the screen and angle it upwards to my MLP.

For surround music (no video), I absolutely keep the center in place and active.

For family viewing, we have another, bigger, TV, in a different room, that uses just a soundbar and a subwoofer. Does the job. These are NYC apartment/condo rooms, we aren't talking suburban mancave/home theater here. Distance to the screen and/or front line speakers is near field or close to it.

 

[paligap]

I hate to say this but because we have two ears. Stereo images perfectly without the extra speaker. Center speakers are only really necessary for larger venues like Movie theatres. Also I have an aversion to odd numbers!

Nothing beats large speakers for stereo and quad. To add a centre speaker it should be exactly matched to the others, typical center speakers designed to sit under a TV just don't cut it for true HI fidelity! Larger full range speakers do not require a sub woofer.

Based on the "two ears" argument, we don't need quad, either. I've never seen a definition of, much less a consensus on, what "true Hi fidelity" is. If either or both of those are out there somewhere, my two systems might fall short, but they both sound great to me.

My media room system is a 5.2.4 setup with four decent bookshelf speakers for the fronts and rears. The center speaker is of the same line, but it's actually bigger than the other four ear-level speakers. My living room system is a 5.2 setup with fronts that are much larger than the center or rears. I have no problem hearing dialogue in either system, and the feature of "panning" is not something I pay much attention to. Those might be some of the reasons I'm satisfied with both systems.

 

[jimfisheye]

This can be really simple.

There are some shit surround mixes out there that botch center channel use amongst other mistakes. This is NO reason to remove a channel from your audio system! Because there are also many fine mixes made that include the use of a center channel.

Any isolated examples of restoration/remastering/altering of a mix that removes the center channel for good result is a fine thing. Still no reason to go reinventing standard surround with less speaker channels.

 

[Sal1950]

Wow, just caught this thread, talk about different opinions.
I have 4 identical towers in the four corners and the "hated" matching horizontal center.
Since I live alone the horizontal center creates minimal lobeing problems.
I'm a 90% music person and happy with the center as it is.

Nah. If you are listening to recordings with a discrete center channel signal, you need a center channel speaker.

Amen

 

[LuvMyQuad]

Since I live alone the horizontal center creates minimal lobeing problems.
Amen

What does the lobeing issue have to do with your living arrangement?

 

[4-earredwonder]

What does the lobeing issue have to do with your living arrangement?

It simply means that SAL doesn't have to share his 'Sweet Spot' with anyone!

 

[LuvMyQuad]

It simply means that SAL doesn't have to share his 'Sweet Spot' with anyone!

I dont either. Nor do I live alone. But at least I understand the comment now.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

I hate to say this but because we have two ears.

That's because you shouldn't say it. It doesn't explain or justify anything.

Nothing beats large speakers for stereo and quad. To add a centre speaker it should be exactly matched to the others, typical center speakers designed to sit under a TV just don't cut it for true HI fidelity! Larger full range speakers do not require a sub woofer.

With you on this.

 

[ar surround]

So, no comments on my post #20? I stated that the front sound stage, even when using a smaller dedicated center channel speaker, sounds more seamless with Atmos or DTS Neural X and Dolby Surround upmixing. BTW, my "smaller" center channel speaker weighs about 60 lbs.

 

[Sal1950]

What does the lobeing issue have to do with your living arrangement?

It simply means that SAL doesn't have to share his 'Sweet Spot' with anyone!

Yes exactly.
Most MTM centers suck at off axis listening.
Erin recently did a great video on horizontal center speaker designs.

 

[AYanguas]

I think all is dependent on the style and quality of the mix.

With 5.1 and more with Dolby Atmos the mixer has many options to locate sounds in individual channels/speakers or imaging with several speakers. Including the center channel.

I do not like the mixes with centered vocals in the Center speaker, when it sounds too isolated.

But I really enjoyed some 5.1 and Atmos mixes that use the center channel for other sounds. Either for vocals or not. Either discrete or blending for imaging with other speakers.

It is all dependent on the mix.