AVR Audio/EQ settings (Audyssey)

[alansanchez86]

Hi:
As posted on the "show us your gear" thread, I recently bought a Denon AVR 6700H, and I plugged it right the minute it got delivered. Somehow I haven't been able to make it sound as good as my previous Denon receiver, which I already sold. I've asked the guy who I sold it to to send me screenshots of my setup, but he hasn't replied back, that'd be the easier way to replicate, with the caveat that this one has more power, so some levels may need adjustment.

But my current issue is two things.
1. Levels are very diverse. I used to have reference on, within the Audyssey MultEQ XT32 menu, but when watching a movie or a tv show dialogues were very low and music high, as well as bass.
I have turned this off, other option was Flat, but I didnt know what it meant, flat EQ?

2. Once I have turn it off, I'm able to adjust manually the Graphic EQ, but I haven't been able to have a crisp sound.

I know that it all depends from the AVR, the speakers, the room, distances, etc...but what are your settings on the Audyssey thing?

P.S: I did run the Audyssey calibration, but I wasnt satisfied tbh.

Thanks!

 

[paligap]

I used to use "Reference," or, on my older Denon, "Audyssey," for movies and "Flat" for music. Now I think the deciding factor is the room, not the material. That's what Audyssey thinks as well. This short article hits some key points:
https://avgadgets.com/audyssey-flat-vs-reference-which-is-best-for-your-room/
Of course, there are hundreds of discussions and articles about Audyssey settings on the Internet, and some people simply don't like it. YMMV.

 

[timothyemerson]

Hi:
As posted on the "show us your gear" thread, I recently bought a Denon AVR 6700H, and I plugged it right the minute it got delivered. Somehow I haven't been able to make it sound as good as my previous Denon receiver, which I already sold. I've asked the guy who I sold it to to send me screenshots of my setup, but he hasn't replied back, that'd be the easier way to replicate, with the caveat that this one has more power, so some levels may need adjustment.

But my current issue is two things.
1. Levels are very diverse. I used to have reference on, within the Audyssey MultEQ XT32 menu, but when watching a movie or a tv show dialogues were very low and music high, as well as bass.
I have turned this off, other option was Flat, but I didnt know what it meant, flat EQ?
View attachment 92687

2. Once I have turn it off, I'm able to adjust manually the Graphic EQ, but I haven't been able to have a crisp sound.
View attachment 92688
I know that it all depends from the AVR, the speakers, the room, distances, etc...but what are your settings on the Audyssey thing?

P.S: I did run the Audyssey calibration, but I wasnt satisfied tbh.

Thanks!

Hi.

From what I've read, the MultEQ Reference setting rolls off the high frequencies for an allegedly less "harsh" high end which Audyssey reckon is better for watching movies. I found it completely obscures some sounds at the high end so have set mine to Flat.

I can only comment on how Audyssey's auto-calibration behaves in my room and it made a vast improvement to the bass (I was initially very skeptical but ran it and was pleasantly surprised). I'd recommend either running it again and/or checking out your channel levels in case the calibration dropped them.

Hope that helps!

 

[alansanchez86]

Thanks guys! this is definitely trial and error, tried Flat but levels were tooo low. Reference is what sounds better so far for music, though will have to test tv shows / movies.

 

[Albert Dagger]

Hey, I did switch from a previous Denon AVR to the 6400 in 2018. I have always used manual settings, and I had to redo some adjustments after adding the ceiling speakers and moving to a new apartment. I don't use Audyssey. I measure the distance between speakers and my ears using a tape measure (or a CAD plan). I also use the iPhone app "SPLnFFT" to measure the level of each speaker at 65/70dB and make sure they are calibrated correctly. I place my phone in front of my head and measure. I reckon that dB (B) should be used for speakers, but also dB (A) doesn't make too much of a difference. I don't use graphic EQ or dynamic loudness and dynamics. It's all off so that I hear the music as it was mixed/mastered.

I double-check my settings with tracks I know very well. For example, Pink Floyd's Money (in quad and 5.1) gives you a clear idea of what you are hearing. Are the cash register sounds coming out of all speakers at the same level? You'll notice straight away. To check the level of the height speakers, I use Kraftwerk's Tour de France (at 0:50) from Kraftwerk 3D. You have sound effects coming out of top, reader and front speakers and they are all supposed to be more or less at the same level (you can check that by downmixing the track to 5.1 or stereo). Another good album to use is King Crimson's Thrak. Since the two drums were mixed in the front channels and rear channels, respectively, you'll be able to check if you hear the two drummers at equal perceived loudness. If you have Meltdown 2018, one of the three drummers is mixed in the rear speakers, the other two drummers in the front speakers, and you can check if they sound okay.

There's a lot of trial and error, but use tracks you know precisely how they are supposed to sound. Find tracks that have sound effects in all speakers, and that you know exactly how they should sound. Dark Side in Atmos is also a great demo track. There's a lot of action and moving objects, particularly in On the Run, so you can check if these transitions and movements are heard smoothly.

I hope this helps. There's a bit of effort, but you'll be happy with a manual calibration if done correctly. If the room sounds too dark or too bright and reflective, I guess you could use Audyssey or Graphic EQ, but again it seems the problem lies elsewhere and I would look for acoustic panels, rugs, or other strategies to solve the problem directly in the room and not through the AVR.

Your AVR can sound really, really good!

 

[ar surround]

I used a combination of a test disc and Audyssey. I bought the Audyssey App ($21) as it allows for better control over Audyssey. I was getting unacceptable results until I used the App.

- I cut off the Audyssey calibration effect at 500 Hz in the App so that it only works on bass frequencies.
- After running the Audyssey calibration, I used a tape measure for actual speaker distances and inputted them in manually for any speaker that differed from the Audyssey results.
- I used a 7.1 AIX test disc to determine the actual speaker levels. Audyssey was relatively accurate for most of the speakers, but I found that the Surround levels had to be reduced -3 dB below what Audyssey came up with. (I understand that this is not unusual.) My center needed to be boosted 2 dB. I did an additional check with the receiver's internal test tones because the test disc did not cover the height speakers.

Thanks guys! this is definitely trial and error, tried Flat but levels were tooo low. Reference is what sounds better so far for music, though will have to test tv shows / movies.

I vacillate between the Audyssey Reference and Flat settings. As we all have experienced, sometimes the settings to use have more to do with the EQ of the recording.

 

[alansanchez86]

Hey, I did switch from a previous Denon AVR to the 6400 in 2018. I have always used manual settings, and I had to redo some adjustments after adding the ceiling speakers and moving to a new apartment. I don't use Audyssey. I measure the distance between speakers and my ears using a tape measure (or a CAD plan). I also use the iPhone app "SPLnFFT" to measure the level of each speaker at 65/70dB and make sure they are calibrated correctly. I place my phone in front of my head and measure. I reckon that dB (B) should be used for speakers, but also dB (A) doesn't make too much of a difference. I don't use graphic EQ or dynamic loudness and dynamics. It's all off so that I hear the music as it was mixed/mastered.

I double-check my settings with tracks I know very well. For example, Pink Floyd's Money (in quad and 5.1) gives you a clear idea of what you are hearing. Are the cash register sounds coming out of all speakers at the same level? You'll notice straight away. To check the level of the height speakers, I use Kraftwerk's Tour de France (at 0:50) from Kraftwerk 3D. You have sound effects coming out of top, reader and front speakers and they are all supposed to be more or less at the same level (you can check that by downmixing the track to 5.1 or stereo). Another good album to use is King Crimson's Thrak. Since the two drums were mixed in the front channels and rear channels, respectively, you'll be able to check if you hear the two drummers at equal perceived loudness. If you have Meltdown 2018, one of the three drummers is mixed in the rear speakers, the other two drummers in the front speakers, and you can check if they sound okay.

There's a lot of trial and error, but use tracks you know precisely how they are supposed to sound. Find tracks that have sound effects in all speakers, and that you know exactly how they should sound. Dark Side in Atmos is also a great demo track. There's a lot of action and moving objects, particularly in On the Run, so you can check if these transitions and movements are heard smoothly.

I hope this helps. There's a bit of effort, but you'll be happy with a manual calibration if done correctly. If the room sounds too dark or too bright and reflective, I guess you could use Audyssey or Graphic EQ, but again it seems the problem lies elsewhere and I would look for acoustic panels, rugs, or other strategies to solve the problem directly in the room and not through the AVR.

Your AVR can sound really, really good!

Definitely, I have my demo songs/albums. Daft Punk - RAM is one of them, or SW - TFB. DSOTM is also a good reference.
I'll try it manual.
Just aan FYI, my room is acoustically treated, since I play drums, the whole ceiling has some acoustic boards.

Thaanks!

 

[Albert Dagger]

Definitely, I have my demo songs/albums. Daft Punk - RAM is one of them, or SW - TFB. DSOTM is also a good reference.
I'll try it manual.
Just aan FYI, my room is acoustically treated, since I play drums, the whole ceiling has some acoustic boards.

Thaanks!

If the room is acoustically treated, I am sure you'll be pleased with the result of a manual AVR tuning...

 

[AYanguas]

As from my experience:

In theory, if your room is acoustically treated, you should use the “Flat” to get the flat EQ without the roolloff of high frequencies that has the “Reference”. The “Reference” high freq rolloff is supposed to compensate for the loss of clarity when there is a wall reflection. But, as always, the better for you is the setting that “you like more”.

The Dynamic EQ is one of the most affecting settings in Adyssey. It is like a sophisticated “loudness” control, that increases the bass when the volume is low. I see you have it enabled, the same as me. Many people argue against this setting. If disabled, it sounds more like “Pure direct” and in low volumes is too weak.

It is well recommended to use the Audyssey MultEQ App. It has some cost but it is worth it. In addition to “see” the original and expected EQ curves from each speaker, it has the best feature that consists in a variable cutoff frequency. Above that cutoff the Audyssey filters are not implemented. This enables the Audyssey EQ only the Bass (Audyssey may be very good for this) only until 500 Hz or max 1000 Hz. The rest above that cutoff is not processed by Audyssey. Some say that the room EQ that Audyssey provides may be worse in some cases giving a rare or distorted sound, if the correction is high enough.

If you disable Audissey, the manual EQ settings are just that. You enter the target curve by your own for each frequency.

There is lots of discussion about Audyssey, but the most valuable “hints” for me has been:

- Check that the “distances” measured of all speakers are correct, except for the SUB. It may be higher than real, that’s normal to compensate for an eventual sound delay caused by the SUB electronics. Leave as that. If the distances measure to the SUB is lower than real, there is an error in calibration.

- Assure that the SUB level is about -5dB when calibrating. Then after calibration, you may increase the SUB gain to your taste, with enough room to avoid clipping.

- Locate the mic, for all positions, not further away of 30 cm, from the initial MLP. The objective is to average EQ filters for the listening position, NOT to average filters for all seats in the coach.

- Use the MultEQ app as it can provide the additional features.

- And finally , of couse, tweak the volume levels of each speaker to your taste, after calibration. Recommended to do it by the "Options" sound , and leave the calibration levels untouched for reference.

 

[marpow]

This is a good thread. Lots of good advice. I never bought the app, I will look into it. I have Audessy enabled but that was a few years ago and I sometimes change levels so who knows how accuarte things remain.
I agree with wall treatment, tape measure measuring.
I learned a tip from the REL represenative and that is to turn off all subs, uncheck the sub box in Audessy. Run Audessy and when complete turn subs on and run to your liking.
Just an idea, I remain still interested in the subject and never 100% sure my rig is the best it can be.

 

[JediJoker]

I reckon that dB (B) should be used for speakers, but also dB (A) doesn't make too much of a difference.

When calibrating loudspeakers, use either dBC or raw dBSPL.

 

[AYanguas]

...
I learned a tip from the REL represenative and that is to turn off all subs, uncheck the sub box in Audessy. Run Audessy and when complete turn subs on and run to your liking.
...

My guess is that this is dependent on how the speakers are defined "LARGE" or "SMALL", and the crossover setting.

I dont know if Audyssey considers all "LARGE", when you uncheck the SUB for the calibration. Then, when you add the SUB later, you would have the Bass zone more high. Not bad as that is one of the objectives when using some Harman target curves.

The limitation of Audyssey, specially for the critical transition zone of the crossover bass management, is that the App shows exactly the response curve measured for each speaker, but then the final result curve, after appying the filters is just an estimation, but not a real measure. So you don't know what Auddyssey is doing really in your room.

If you want the real measure after calibration room EQ, you have to go further, buy a better Mic, use the tool REW. And there is an iterative procedure with another tool called Ratbuddyssey, that can upload a target curve to Audysset App, (different from the stardards reference or flat) to compensate for the anomalies. Then measure the reality with REW and adjust again.

Other alternative is to use DIRAC, that I think it has an additional Dirac Bass Management tool that makes all this automatically. Newer DENONs have access to DIRAC, I Think.

I have been studying the REW/Ratbuddyssey process, I have bought the requiered Mic UMIK-1, but I didn't yet started any REW measurements.... Too much time.... Better spend time listening to music in a "non superoptimal calibrated equipment"

 

[Albert Dagger]

An update on my previous post. Earlier today, I decided to purchase the Audyssey App for my iPad to see what I could achieve. I am very happy with the results!

I took six measurements, skipping the last two measurements behind the couch (I've got a wall). Then, I adjusted the crossover of the speakers (Audyssey wanted my centre speaker to be large, but I set it up as small with a 60Hz crossover, ceiling speakers as small with 80Hz crossover and front speakers as full range, since I don't use a sub). Levels were okay, as well as distances. I also adjusted the reference curve following advice from Amir at ASR (see this post: Audyssey Room EQ Review). Apparently, it's more correct to boost the bass and don't use a flat curve. I also disabled midrange compensation and dynamic EQ. It wasn't easy to create the target curve on the iPad, but wow, it was worth it.

With the Reference Setting (no dynamic EQ), everything is more immersive and cohesive. Apparently, I had room modes at 50/60Hz for the front speakers and 120Hz for the surrounds, which have been fixed.

I will soon upgrade to a Marantz AV10, and I might decide to try Dirac, but so far I am happy to Audyssey (using the iPad app though). I don't think I will go back to manual adjustments without room EQ. For stereo listening, things also sound better. Very different from before (direct mode), but I think it's better. It is definitely a change so it will take time to get used to it. For surround music, just so much better.

 

[Pitscher]

I have a problem with Dynamic EQ on some mixes. In the quad mix of "Black Sabbath - Paranoid", for example, the vocals are lost. Sounds like it came from a cloud.

 

[ar surround]

I have a problem with Dynamic EQ on some mixes. In the quad mix of "Black Sabbath - Paranoid", for example, the vocals are lost. Sounds like it came from a cloud.

Dynamic EQ seems to be a more sophisticated (?) version of what we used to call the Loudness control, and I assume that both have the same issues if applied to the wrong material. If it doesn't sound good with certain recordings then turn it off.

 

[mandrix]

I can't add anything useful to the use of Audyssey with the Denon, just some questions for my edification, please?

I read a couple of mentions of speaker distances. That seems to indicate that Audyssey estimates the distance from the mic to the speaker, and inputs an actual distance instead of a time stamp? Is this correct? (e.g. 10 ft vs 5ms).
I would think distance measured in time would be more accurate than inputting actual distance, or is this the only option?

I don't have a Denon, and my only experience with Audyssey was with an earlier Onkyo. I use the Dirac Live pc app now with a UMIK-1 mic. (Onkyo TX-RZ50)
I had fairly good results with Audyssey in one room, poor in another (smaller) room.

 

[Albert Dagger]

Dynamic EQ seems to be a more sophisticated (?) version of what we used to call the Loudness control, and I assume that both have the same issues if applied to the wrong material. If it doesn't sound good with certain recordings then turn it off.

I’m also not sold on Dynamic EQ. At low levels, music sounds too bass heavy. At 60 or louder it’s better, but its also very good without Dynamic EQ engaged. For now, I’ll keep MultiEQ on with Amir’s target curve and Dynamic EQ off. Let’s see how it goes… I want to play more with target curves in the coming days.

 

[fredblue]

I have a problem with Dynamic EQ on some mixes. In the quad mix of "Black Sabbath - Paranoid", for example, the vocals are lost. Sounds like it came from a cloud.

i'm bound to get leapt on by Audyssey lovers but for what it's worth i've never enjoyed using Dynamic EQ and so these days (i have tried - and tried - to like it! ) i just never use it now.

to me, among it's cardinal sins (incl. loudness and EQ issues, especially excessive Bass at lower listening levels and rolled off Treble) i find it overeggs the Rear channel levels to quite some degree, an effect i find detrimental to the soundfield of a Surround Music mix. with Multichannel Movie mixes i find it isn't often so invasive or destructive but for Surround Music, i'm not a fan as i find it recesses lead vocals across the Front soundstage whether discrete in the Centre channel or Phantom imaged in the Front Left & Right.

so whenever i get a new Denon AV Receiver (on my 3rd example having picked up my first nearly 20 years ago now) i run Audyssey for all the handy distance delays and volume level adjustments it makes during initial Setup, then set all the Speakers back to Small with an 80Hz crossover and then shut Off Dyn EQ & Dyn Vol and leave them permanently Off.

i then put on some Surround Music material i am very familiar with and tinker manually, taking a tape measure to double check distances and see how close they get to Audyssey's calculations of my main listening position(s) (it's often very close or even spot on!) and then try to fine tune any aspect of the sound i have control over such as distance, level and EQ, with various aids including an SPL meter.

oh and i know it has its detractors but for me the good old 'crawl test' i've been using since 1997 has never failed to find the best spot for the Sub in my small room, so that unlike with the results i've had from Audyssey, low Bass is not overloud and Bass generally has what i find to be the smoothest and most pleasing response when sat in the MLP

 

[JediJoker]

I have a problem with Dynamic EQ on some mixes. In the quad mix of "Black Sabbath - Paranoid", for example, the vocals are lost. Sounds like it came from a cloud.

I only use dynamic EQ for very low level listening, as when I'm falling asleep to music.

 

[weekendtoy]

Flat and no dynamic EQ for music.

Reference and dynamic EQ for movies.

REW and a calibrated mic for all your pre and post audyssey fine tuning.