DVD-Audio/Video vs. DVD-Audio vs. DVD-Video..... vs. DTS(?)

[Quadzilla]

It's less than 12 months old, so i can't really afford to change it. ( i assumed at the time, being a latest model, that it would have ALL connections ! )
Will i get multichannel by connecting via HDMI ?

I think there's a bit of anti Sony snobbery, to be honest. I'm sure that the Oppo's & more expensive players are very impressive, ( and perhaps one day i'll find out ) but i've never been let down by a Sony product, ( everything i own still works, never had to have anything repaired ) and the sound from the Sony STR-DH820 is very impressive....it should be really....you expect some kind of quality, when it costs close to £300 !

I have 4 Sony SACD players, and two of them are ES models. I am not anti-Sony at all.
I just think that their receivers lag behind most others.

 

[Dixie4]

really i don't understand where do you got this?
blu-ray format consist playback audio @192KHz into 6 channels, so why player, being built to BD specs, would truncate 96KHz to 48KHz?
it doesn't make any sense.
so, if your disc does contain 96/24 audio stream, it will be send as 96/24 to amplification in either digital or decoded analog format,
depending on chosen by you option in players menu setting.

In relation to DVD - A playback....

My concern was from reading a review about the Pioneer BDP 440 & it's more expensive upgrade ( and i think it said ?...i do suffer from M.E. and it affects poor cognitive function ) that the BDP 440 does not decode to 24/96 compared to the more expensive model ??
I'm quite a novice ( even though i've had SACD players e.t.c. since 2004 ) and not really technically savvy. I don't understand a lot of the technical jargon on here....although i'm trying to understand & learn more !
Just to clarify...DVD-A's always play back / decode to 96/24 ?

 

[0tto]

Just to clarify...DVD-A's always play back / decode to 96/24 ?

of course you'll have 96/24 if DVDA has this stream. there in player only one processor, which handle audio and doesn't matter,
audio stream come from BD, DVDA, ADVD, SACD, CD, USB or whatever else storage medium.
on top of this, HDMI gave the opportunity to send raw digital data as is to receiver, which then can process this data from
digital to analog. it wasn't possible before for lossless multichannel due to bandwidth limitation of optical and coax interfaces.

 

[Dixie4]

of course you'll have 96/24 if DVDA has this stream. there in player only one processor, which handle audio and doesn't matter,
audio stream come from BD, DVDA, ADVD, SACD, CD, USB or whatever else storage medium.
on top of this, HDMI gave the opportunity to send raw digital data as is to receiver, which then can process this data from
digital to analog. it wasn't possible before for lossless multichannel due to bandwidth limitation of optical and coax interfaces.

Thank you, i'm really looking forward to my first experience of DVD-A ( if it's as good as SACD then i'm in for a treat )

 

[leevitalone1]

Thank you, i'm really looking forward to my first experience of DVD-A ( if it's as good as SACD then i'm in for a treat )

lots of us think that dvd audio is better than sacd. BD is the same process as dvd audio.

 

[Dixie4]

lots of us think that dvd audio is better than sacd. BD is the same process as dvd audio.

I received my new player today.Only have one disc at present ( Seal Best Of ) Very impressed, i've only listened to it once, so couldn't give a full opinion regards comparing to SACD, but initial thoughts are that there does appear to be a difference to me. At this point, hard to explain....probably more balanced ? ( waiting for 6 more discs, so will get more of a feel then, but first impressions, excellent. )

 

[leevitalone1]

I received my new player today.Only have one disc at present ( Seal Best Of ) Very impressed, i've only listened to it once, so couldn't give a full opinion regards comparing to SACD, but initial thoughts are that there does appear to be a difference to me. At this point, hard to explain....probably more balanced ? ( waiting for 6 more discs, so will get more of a feel then, but first impressions, excellent. )

Well one disc certainly can't be a judge to the format. You will find some are better produced than others. Get the Love album (dvd-audio) everyone likes the Beatles. Then get a blu ray music disc. either a sampler or a band you like. There are some Steely Dan still out there in both formats. Me, I like dvd audio more than sacd.

 

[0tto]

Get the Love album (dvd-audio) everyone likes the Beatles.

i don't, albeit i do have this DVDA and even some LPs.
as for sonic comparison, you cannot do this by using different mastering but only with same master in different formats.
there pretty much depend on mastering. lots of releases in both, DVDA and SACD sounds almost equal to mp3 when was
done with crappy recording/mastering. but when it's done well, they leave all other physical formats way behind in dust.
most recent ones i can suggest (and still available inexpensive at retail) - both latest BD-A by Steven Wilson. there some
problems with recorded vox, but other than this they sounds pretty good.

 

[Dixie4]

Well one disc certainly can't be a judge to the format. You will find some are better produced than others. Get the Love album (dvd-audio) everyone likes the Beatles. Then get a blu ray music disc. either a sampler or a band you like. There are some Steely Dan still out there in both formats. Me, I like dvd audio more than sacd.

I forgot to order the Love album, will do. I haven't tried one of my Blu Ray music discs yet, i have a fair few to try out.

I've been looking at the settings menu. ( when i first played the disc 88 was displayed on my receiver ) and i noticed a downsampling section / 48 / 96 / 192. I've now set this to 96 ( but for some reason can't see it on my receiver display now ? I've also got it set to bitstream. Is this the way it should be set, typically ?

 

[Robert van Diggele]

Good to read that the player is a good purchase. As you output the bitstream, your receiver displays the sample rate of the dvd-a. I do not have this disc, but an online search shows that the disc is 24 bit/88.2 khz, hence the 88 on your receiver.

Regarding downsampling, i am not sure if your current setting is the recommended one. As you use bitstream I guess the highest sample rate that yourreceiver can handle, should be put in the downsample section, or no down sampling at all.

 

[Dixie4]

Good to read that the player is a good purchase. As you output the bitstream, your receiver displays the sample rate of the dvd-a. I do not have this disc, but an online search shows that the disc is 24 bit/88.2 khz, hence the 88 on your receiver.

Regarding downsampling, i am not sure if your current setting is the recommended one. As you use bitstream I guess the highest sample rate that yourreceiver can handle, should be put in the downsample section, or no down sampling at all.

Hi, my receiver displays 176 when i'm playing my Sony Blu Ray, so i assume that's the highest rate my receiver can convert ? So are you suggesting to set ( new player ) at 192 ( or like you say, switch it off ? ) I've not tried 192. ( wouldn't the receiver just convert automatically ? )

 

[Robert van Diggele]

Hi, my receiver displays 176 when i'm playing my Sony Blu Ray, so i assume that's the highest rate my receiver can convert ? So are you suggesting to set ( new player ) at 192 ( or like you say, switch it off ? ) I've not tried 192. ( wouldn't the receiver just convert automatically ? )

Yes, your receiver probably does that. And thinking about it now, maybe that downmixing does not apply to the HDMI at all, perhaps only to the coax output. Apologies when this makes it more confusing

 

[Dixie4]

Yes, your receiver probably does that. And thinking about it now, maybe that downmixing does not apply to the HDMI at all, perhaps only to the coax output. Apologies when this makes it more confusing

It doesn't take a lot to confuse me !

 

[leevitalone1]

It doesn't take a lot to confuse me !

Check on the BD case for the rates. Most are at 48, some at 96. I can't see any higher because of the video, and higher would be stereo anyway. Never heard of a receiver that up-converted audio before, although it may be possible? Using the HDMI will cause Bass management in the avr. Are there individual speaker level adjustments? If you need to know the output, any case will tell you, but sacd will not. IT will not display that. no equipment I know of will.
dvd audio are all mostly 96. There is one at 192 stereo and thats the "Everything Must Go" by the dan. The label is a misprint.

 

[Dixie4]

Check on the BD case for the rates. Most are at 48, some at 96. I can't see any higher because of the video, and higher would be stereo anyway. Never heard of a receiver that up-converted audio before, although it may be possible? Using the HDMI will cause Bass management in the avr. Are there individual speaker level adjustments? If you need to know the output, any case will tell you, but sacd will not. IT will not display that. no equipment I know of will.
dvd audio are all mostly 96. There is one at 192 stereo and thats the "Everything Must Go" by the dan. The label is a misprint.

Thank you for the info. I can adjust each speaker. I have them all at the same level. ( the menu on my new player as more options, than my cheaper Sony player ) Learning more about the rates.

 

[neil wilkes]

In relation to DVD - A playback....

My concern was from reading a review about the Pioneer BDP 440 & it's more expensive upgrade ( and i think it said ?...i do suffer from M.E. and it affects poor cognitive function ) that the BDP 440 does not decode to 24/96 compared to the more expensive model ??
I'm quite a novice ( even though i've had SACD players e.t.c. since 2004 ) and not really technically savvy. I don't understand a lot of the technical jargon on here....although i'm trying to understand & learn more !
Just to clarify...DVD-A's always play back / decode to 96/24 ?

The main thing to do is carefully check the player firmware setup with constant reference to the user manual, to be sure you have the right setup.
From the factory, it will be set to a default configuration that has one purpose only - to get you started with a display & connection that will work across the board.
I can almost guarantee it will not be set up for optimal audio & visual experience.

Re 24/96, DVDA/V and DTS.
Not all DVD-A are using a 96KHz sample rate - if you look at the Seal "Best Of" one you will see that whilst the main album is indeed 5.1 at 24/96, the acoustic bonus is at CD res
- 16/44.1 - although it is in surround. However, all DVD-A players are certainly capable of outputting 24/96 audio, as this is a mandatory part of the specs, unlike DVD-Video (content in a Video_TS) where the mandatory part is 16/48, and both 20 & 24-bit as well as 96KHZ sample rate support is optional.
DTS9624 can be more confusing, as certain players cannot decode the 9624 extensions (my Oppo BDP-83SE cannot, neither can the BDP-80, but the BDP-90 & BDP-95 players can).
In real world use, this is actually irrelevant though as the core audio stream will be output without you needing to do or set anything.
I suspect this is what the review is talking about when it says it does "not decode to 24/96" - DTS core audio against DTS9624 - and not PCM output from DVD-A or BD titles.

 

[Dixie4]

The main thing to do is carefully check the player firmware setup with constant reference to the user manual, to be sure you have the right setup.
From the factory, it will be set to a default configuration that has one purpose only - to get you started with a display & connection that will work across the board.
I can almost guarantee it will not be set up for optimal audio & visual experience.

Re 24/96, DVDA/V and DTS.
Not all DVD-A are using a 96KHz sample rate - if you look at the Seal "Best Of" one you will see that whilst the main album is indeed 5.1 at 24/96, the acoustic bonus is at CD res
- 16/44.1 - although it is in surround. However, all DVD-A players are certainly capable of outputting 24/96 audio, as this is a mandatory part of the specs, unlike DVD-Video (content in a Video_TS) where the mandatory part is 16/48, and both 20 & 24-bit as well as 96KHZ sample rate support is optional.
DTS9624 can be more confusing, as certain players cannot decode the 9624 extensions (my Oppo BDP-83SE cannot, neither can the BDP-80, but the BDP-90 & BDP-95 players can).
In real world use, this is actually irrelevant though as the core audio stream will be output without you needing to do or set anything.
I suspect this is what the review is talking about when it says it does "not decode to 24/96" - DTS core audio against DTS9624 - and not PCM output from DVD-A or BD titles.

Thank you for the info....the biggest problem with my new Pioneer BDP440, ( after just 4 days ! ) is the loading tray. Most times, when i press open, it immediately closes again.
I'm begining to wish i hadn't bought this model. ( i wanted a Oppo 93, but was governed by budget ) I've always bought Sony equipment, never had any problems with their products. ( this will definitely be my last Pioneer purchase ! )

 

[fredblue]

Thank you for the info....the biggest problem with my new Pioneer BDP440, ( after just 4 days ! ) is the loading tray. Most times, when i press open, it immediately closes again.
I'm begining to wish i hadn't bought this model. ( i wanted a Oppo 93, but was governed by budget ) I've always bought Sony equipment, never had any problems with their products. ( this will definitely be my last Pioneer purchase ! )

I'd send back the Pioneer (if you can? if you bought it online, "Distance Selling" regulations have you covered no matter what).. even Pioneers' newer BDP's are notoriously buggy (their previous models, re-badged Sharp machines, were even worse!).

The Oppo BDP93 (and it's clone, the Cambridge Audio Azur 651BD) are well worth the extra money, my 651 is built like a tank and plays back everything I've thrown at it, so far.

Don't be seduced by cheap deals on discontinued Yamaha Blu ray players. I had a Yamaha BDS671 before it had to go back after less than a week when it stopped playing discs altogether (and there are more horror stories on other Yamaha BD players if you look online).

There's a reason the Oppo's have become ubiquitous. They work, very well indeed!

Your other choice is a discontinued Denon DBP-1611 (about £200 on eBay) which plays back all the Hi-Rez formats we're interested in (DVDA/SACD, etc) and is a nice no-frills machine.

The Oppo is better but if budgets tight you won't be disappointed with the old Denon model.

 

[fredblue]

oh and a Sony's a non-starter if you're looking for a truly Universal player as none of Sony's BDP's playback Hi-Rez DVD-Audio.

personally, I used to love Sony but they, like Pioneer, are not what they were, sadly.

 

[bmoura]

Agree with Fred - for a Universal player these days, get one of the Oppo players.