Guns N‘ Roses - Appetite For Destruction Locked N’ Loaded Edition

[LennonCobain]

I am keeping on eye on the ImportCDs eBay store to see if the super deluxe edition is added at some point. Recently, eBay (not seller specific) has been offering good coupons/discounts. So if the price on eBay is the same as their website and there is an eBay discount available, this may end being the lowest price point.

 

[ForagingRhino]

I doubt the records companies think like this. Why would they keep a finished products innthe vault when people are not happy with a high price point of certain box sets?

If I was working at a record company and had any influence I would take the compaints and say: " Listen, we have all these dvda ISOs in the vault. Work was done and paid for. Keeping them in the vault earns us nothing, putting them in expensive box sets earns us x. Releasing them in a cd/bda combo earns us y and offering them as download ( ISO plus flac) earns us z". I hardly doubt any sane executive would then say, Nah lets keep them in the vault because people will complain about high box set prices.

When these are offered as downloads, while they get on torrent sites? Yes, but that is already happening with a lot of physical releases. I am NOT endorsing this, only stating facts.

IMO the record companies are losing tons of money with keeping the finished products in the vaults. Their and our loss. I could be wrong of course but when these vault mixes are available for download at a €15-€20 price point each they will sell a lot. Maybe even a subsciption service to het more at a discounted price?

Steve, @ForagingRhino . What are your thoughts on this? If you are allowed to speak on this of course. I dont want to get you into hot water. Thanks if you could add your thoughts to this.

If these mixes were in fact created, clearly it was during a time when the label felt there was a market for them. At some point thereafter, sales did not support creating more products so the mixes were shelved.
It's about numbers folks.

 

[Clint Eastwood]

If these mixes were in fact created, clearly it was during a time when the label felt there was a market for them. At some point thereafter, sales did not support creating more products so the mixes were shelved.
It's about numbers folks.

It's hard for some to realize how small of a segment of the market place surround music represents and the associated costs with bringing even "finished" products to the market place....I'd just like to thank you personally for your work....Rhino has brought some amazing music to the marketplace

 

[sperezmore]

Man,

I want only the 5.1 mix

I don't want to pay more than $40.00 for it, What to do?

I truly think some record companies are leaving money on the table with only the release of these deluxe box sets (Fleetwood Mac - Fleetwood Mac, Tusk, Mirage /Alan Parsons - Eye in The Sky / Guns N‘ Roses - Appetite For Destruction and many more...) In my opinion the prices are too high counting that we are living in the streaming/downloading age

Luckily for me they are ways to get all these surround mixes and everybody knows what I'm talking about but do not have to be this way. I would gladly pay for a stand-alone Blu-ray Audio or DVD Audio surround mix release. (Also, I would buy in a heartbeat all the surround mixes that I want to be purchased via download)

Regards,

 

[rtbluray]

Man,

I want only the 5.1 mix

I don't want to pay more than $40.00 for it, What to do?

I truly think some record companies are leaving money on the table with only the release of these deluxe box sets (Fleetwood Mac - Fleetwood Mac, Tusk, Mirage /Alan Parsons - Eye in The Sky / Guns N‘ Roses - Appetite For Destruction) In my opinion the prices are too high counting that we are living in the streaming/downloading age

Luckily for me they are ways to get all these surround mixes and everybody knows what I'm talking about but do not have to be this way, I would gladly pay for a stand-alone Blu-ray Audio or DVD Audio surround mix release.

Regards,

There would be a single disc Blu-Ray release if the labels thought it would be profitable enough to release one.
Universal released lots of Blu-Ray audio discs between 2013 & 2016, and they have not produced any more since then (except in box sets) so they clearly feel their venture did not work out.

 

[LennonCobain]

There would be a single disc Blu-Ray release if the labels thought it would be profitable enough to release one.
Universal released lots of Blu-Ray audio discs between 2013 & 2016, and they have not produced any more since then (except in box sets) so they clearly feel their venture did not work out.

Personally I feel that UMe mishandled the HFPA initiative by relying too heavily on previously released content, which the target market likely had in the DVD-A or SACD format. For 2.0 only releases, they competed against lossless downloads from HDtracks and others. If you see the cutouts that went to China and are sold on eBay inexpensively, it probably supports this argument.

Quadraphenia appears to have sold well as you can’t find the HFPA at a reasonable price. I wonder if the HFPA standalone discs of Reckless and Songs From The Big Chair sold well in comparison to the larger deluxe edition releases?

 

[LuvMyQuad]

Man,

I want only the 5.1 mix

I don't want to pay more than $40.00 for it, What to do?

I truly think some record companies are leaving money on the table with only the release of these deluxe box sets (Fleetwood Mac - Fleetwood Mac, Tusk, Mirage /Alan Parsons - Eye in The Sky / Guns N‘ Roses - Appetite For Destruction) In my opinion the prices are too high counting that we are living in the streaming/downloading age

Luckily for me they are ways to get all these surround mixes and everybody knows what I'm talking about but do not have to be this way, I would gladly pay for a stand-alone Blu-ray Audio or DVD Audio surround mix release.

Regards,

My question would be, if it is considered unprofitable to issue a standalone version due to the costs involved in making the product and the low demand for it, why not offer 5.1 mixes to be purchased via download? It makes even more sense for 5.1 material that has already been mixed but never released, such as Foraging Rhino was referencing. I think this is where the money is really being left on the table because there is so much less outlay (at least in my mind there is. Maybe Mr. Rhino can explain the relative cost difference between a download and a physical product.

By not offering a standalone version of any type, the record company is forcing a choice upon the consumer. And there really are only three possible outcomes.

1. The consumer spends the money and deals with the stuff they don't want. Money is made on a limited number of consumers who are willing to pay the price.

2. The consumer does not buy the product. The company looses potential sales. The consumer goes without.

3. The consumer obtains the product in the manner speezmore has outlined. Again the company looses sales. The consumer gets what he was after in the first place.

 

[Clint Eastwood]

My question would be, if it is considered unprofitable to issue a standalone version due to the costs involved in making the product and the low demand for it, why not offer 5.1 mixes to be purchased via download? It makes even more sense for 5.1 material that has already been mixed but never released, such as Foraging Rhino was referencing. I think this is where the money is really being left on the table because there is so much less outlay (at least in my mind there is. Maybe Mr. Rhino can explain the relative cost difference between a download and a physical product.

By not offering a standalone version of any type, the record company is forcing a choice upon the consumer. And there really are only three possible outcomes.

1. The consumer spends the money and deals with the stuff they don't want. Money is made on a limited number of consumers who are willing to pay the price.

2. The consumer does not buy the product. The company looses potential sales. The consumer goes without.

3. The consumer obtains the product in the manner speezmore has outlined. Again the company looses sales. The consumer gets what he was after in the first place.

Maybe that will happen in the future...Rhino is just a division of Warner Music...so in the future it will either do some type of downloads or cease to exist..IMO

Let me expand a bit on this idea of downloads...in the case of surround music... record companies still face the same problem....we are still a tiny portion of potential sales..so that won't change switching from physical media to downloads...will the production costs be cheaper...I would imagine...but then you have another offsetting problem...in the surround community downloading is still not universally accepted as a way to capture surround music...and beyond the "acceptance" factor there is the infrastructure problem...in my case...even if I wanted to download music it's very difficult to do it...my internet speed is so slow and I don't really have options for faster internet speeds where I live...so the advantage of cheaper production costs goes away with an even smaller pool of potential customers...

So maybe the record companies are holding on to these "vault" mixes for the day when downloading is more mainstream and more people have adopted this mode of getting their "audiophile" music..although conventional music(lesser quality and non surround)seems to be doing well...the surround download music options are in their infancy..

 

[omega4]

So Amazon UK have this at £170 ($230). As a result have pre-ordered from Amazon US for $177 (about £130) including expedited delivery and import tax. Seems completely mad to me. I could not bring myself to pay £130 for Roxy Music but this box appears to provide more for the money - and it's G'n'R! It has still taken three days of consideration, confirmation of an Elliot Scheiner mix and a price drop to make me go for it though. Whereas with Dutton Vocalion's latest releases.....about a nanosecond!

 

[edisonbaggins]

So Amazon UK have this at £170 ($230). As a result have pre-ordered from Amazon US for $177 (about £130) including expedited delivery and import tax. Seems completely mad to me. I could not bring myself to pay £130 for Roxy Music but this box appears to provide more for the money - and it's G'n'R! It has still taken three days of consideration, confirmation of an Elliot Scheiner mix and a price drop to make me go for it though. Whereas with Dutton Vocalion's latest releases.....about a nanosecond!

I don't know if Amazon Canada is an option for you (or retailers like import cd). My order at Amazon. ca comes out to around $144, given the current USD/CAD exchange rate. Not sure what your situation would be though.

 

[DuncanS]

I don't know if Amazon Canada is an option for you (or retailers like import cd). My order at Amazon. ca comes out to around $144, given the current USD/CAD exchange rate. Not sure what your situation would be though.

Unfortunately for us on this side of the pond amazon.ca doesn't add the UK import duty at source, so we pay 'through the nose' as the courier can add between £12.50 to £17.50 tax handling charge (thats what I've had to pay)

 

[omega4]

I don't know if Amazon Canada is an option for you (or retailers like import cd). My order at Amazon. ca comes out to around $144, given the current USD/CAD exchange rate. Not sure what your situation would be though.

Many thanks for your suggestion. The cost from Amazon Canada would work out slightly less but it is very unclear about how import taxes are dealt with. Amazon US add a deposit to cover the potential maximum cost and refund if it's less. If the Canadian side of Amazon send through any other courier or, worse, Royal Mail, there will be a completely disproportionate handling charge on top. So, in summary, I will stick with US to avoid the risk. Interestingly, I see that Amazon Germany has it at 150 Euros, about the same as my total cost, but excluding delivery. I hope this information helps others thinking about this quite expensive release.

 

[omega4]

Unfortunately for us on this side of the pond amazon.ca doesn't add the UK import duty at source, so we pay 'through the nose' as the courier can add between £12.50 to £17.50 tax handling charge (thats what I've had to pay)

Thanks DuncanS. I didn't see your reply until sending mine but as I suspected. Also, Amazon Canada want C$25 for shipping compared to $8 from US. It's a bit of a minefield that needs good research before clicking "Buy"!

 

[LuvMyQuad]

Maybe that will happen in the future...Rhino is just a division of Warner Music...so in the future it will either do some type of downloads or cease to exist..IMO

I completely agree. Soon, there will be no other choice.

And I'd wager faster connection speeds are right around the corner for you. In my area (western NY state), the government is already mandating faster connections and coverage in order to spur business development. And no state likes to be left behind in that arena. They'll upgrade your space station.
[/QUOTE]

 

[4-earredwonder]

If these mixes were in fact created, clearly it was during a time when the label felt there was a market for them. At some point thereafter, sales did not support creating more products so the mixes were shelved.
It's about numbers folks.

Foraging Rhino, perhaps you can shed some light on why after Warner/Rhino's association with Audio Fidelity's QUAD reissue program ended, W/R ceased licensing any of their EXISTING QUAD masters to any other REISSUE companies?

As you are aware, Dutton~Vocalion in Watford, England is issuing some spectacular QUAD SACD reissues from SONY, Universal [to a lesser extent] and would it be feasible to use that company as a conduit for releasing future Rhino/Warner QUAD reissues?

 

[Clint Eastwood]

I completely agree. Soon, there will be no other choice.

And I'd wager faster connection speeds are right around the corner for you. In my area (western NY state), the government is already mandating faster connections and coverage in order to spur business development. And no state likes to be left behind in that arena. They'll upgrade your space station.

[/QUOTE]

I live in a waterfront community... and like many buildings in my area... the internet cables were run thru the internal section of the buildings by the cable company at their inception...this gave complete control to the installing cable company...at the time it was basically a monopoly and the cable company took advantage of the situation by approaching builders before the buildings were completed and installed their cable wiring during the construction phase...they became entrenched in this area....5 years ago Verizon Fios tried to penetrate this market and they failed...the up front money Verizon wanted to come to my community was substantial due to the work that had to be done for them to run their cables...the other problem with this "internal" building wiring is that when there is a problem....there aren't very many remedies...and I have that situation...so a speed increase isn't going to help me...

You might be fortunate where you live to get major improvements...but I remain skeptical that mandates will speed the process up within a reasonable timeline....it's been common knowledge throughout the government that the infrastructure in the US is inadequate....but little has changed...I remember all the "discussions" pertaining to the standards for High Definition in the US...that took over a decade and it wasn't nearly as demanding a task as this problem...we will see

 

[Robert van Diggele]

If these mixes were in fact created, clearly it was during a time when the label felt there was a market for them. At some point thereafter, sales did not support creating more products so the mixes were shelved.
It's about numbers folks.

Hi Steve,,thanks for dropping by. I understand there have to be buyers for a product. But if there are shelved mixes that were finished at that time but nebver relased, it would be an easy test to if there is a market for downloads right now. I think there is. Probably not a mega seller, but once the titles are in the stores, they will keep selling I guess.

 

[edisonbaggins]

Hi Steve,,thanks for dropping. I understand there have to be buyers for a product. But if there are shelved mixes that were finished at that time but nebver relased, it would be an easy test to if there is a market for downloads right now. I think there is. Probably not a mega seller, but once the tiles are in the stores, they will keep selling I guess.

I would definitely support a download server option. Especially instead of mega-ultra-fuckin-super-duper-deluxe box sets. Stand-alone BD/SACD/DVD-A is my preference, followed by CD/MC combo option.
When I buy deluxe boxes I remove the MC disc and sell the rest anyway.

 

[MrSmithers]

+1 on the downloads! It solves all the OOP shenanigans straight away. And reduces costs for everyone (except it seems for HDtracks). I don't think piracy will be an issue if prices are low? And I can tell you now Appetite For Destruction would be a big big seller. They'd probably make more money that way then from the boxsets!

I know there is the hassle of internet speeds... Clint if you have a laptop you could try the local library or coffee shop - they are usually pretty speedy? Or is it a local area sort of thing?

There is a vast back catalogue of surround titles out there. Even without all unreleased canned albums sitting in vaults...

I can see it now... Advertising in cinemas showcasing what can be heard (just need Don Draper involved!). A universal format that doesn't require customers to buy different machinery. And people actually being aware of how good these albums can sound.

I guess the biggest hurdle might be trying to persuade people to place 4-6 speakers in one room?

 

[edisonbaggins]

I guess the biggest hurdle might be trying to persuade people to place 4-6 speakers in one room?

Yet, there are always those people who already have surround (even if it's a modest setup from BB) for movies, but just don't know that favorite music albums come that way.
Routinely, people to whom I gush about my favorite surround experiences, tell me shortly thereafter that they installed surround, gave some favorite albums a whirl and got hooked. Even young people.