Mobile Fidelity Plans 4X DSD Oversampling on Future SACD Releases

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Mobile Fidelity needed to come up with some way of jumping on the quad bandwagon.
 
from the linked article I understand that the files are downsampled again. What is the benefit of upsampling first?

Right.

MoFi will upsample to Quad DSD and then downsample to DSD 64 to fit the music on an SACD disc. The SACD optical disc doesn't have the room to fit Quad DSD on it. But, of course, Quad DSD downloads - featuring Quad DSD native recordings (like the ones from Eudora) and Analog Tape to Quad DSD transfers (like the ones from Yarlung and soon additional record labels) - do. So that's the way you will get the full benefits of Quad DSD - and you can do that today. No need to wait for 2015 and CES!

Music fans with Quad DSD DACs (exaSound, iFi, etc.) can also do DSD and PCM to Quad DSD upsampling on their own. And have been for over a year now. The growing popularity of upsampling to Double Rate DSD (2x SACD) and Quad Rate DSD (4x SACD) explains Mo Fi's decision to get on the bandwagon.


Colom in Quad DSD - EUDDR1402 - 400w.jpg
Mozart & Chopin on Eudora Records - Native Quad DSD (DSD 256) Recording in Multichannel & Stereo DSD
https://eudora.nativedsd.com/
 
I just wonder how much value it is to include CD's on these SACD discs....the SHM model makes more sense to me....they are advertised as a hi rez product and CD's certainly don't fit the category...I know the argument used to be that not everybody had a SACD player...but there have always been CD's available of these same titles...so I don't see the point...I've also heard that some people with SACD capable machines play these discs in their cars...this I don't understand...besides the real prospect of the disc getting "beat up" in your car player why would an audiophile want to hear CD quality of a disc they have in hi rez...maybe bmoura can respond to this in the marketing aspect of the "hybrid" audiophile disc...maybe the cost is neglible for the record company or the space lost on this CD doesn't matter...I'm curious to hear...
 
I just wonder how much value it is to include CD's on these SACD discs....the SHM model makes more sense to me....they are advertised as a hi rez product and CD's certainly don't fit the category...I know the argument used to be that not everybody had a SACD player...but there have always been CD's available of these same titles...so I don't see the point...I've also heard that some people with SACD capable machines play these discs in their cars...this I don't understand...besides the real prospect of the disc getting "beat up" in your car player why would an audiophile want to hear CD quality of a disc they have in hi rez...maybe bmoura can respond to this in the marketing aspect of the "hybrid" audiophile disc...maybe the cost is neglible for the record company or the space lost on this CD doesn't matter...I'm curious to hear...

Clint raises an interesting point.

Universal Music has, from day one, been interested in the SACD format in part because of it's copy protection features (i.e. the ability to release albums without a Stereo CD layer you could copy/rip). And Universal has never been shy about saying that. They experimented with that by releasing SACDs in both Single and Hybrid layer format at the start of their involvement with the SACD format. In the U.S. they encountered some negative consumer reaction to the Single Layer SACDs and moved to Hybrid SACD releases only in most markets. In Japan, consumers may be more accepting of Single Layer SACDs - hence the issue of the SHM-SACDs in Single Layer form.

Another advantage to Single Layer SACDs is that they cost less to make since they only have the SACD layer and can be made on most DVD-capable pressing machinery. A Hybrid SACD requires the use of a special pressing machine that is able to make Hybrid SACDs, Single Layer SACDs, DVDs and Stereo CDs. This explains why Universal has made their own Single Layer SACDs in many cases over the years vs. having to contract for Hybrid SACD copies from other companies/pressing plans that have the special pressing equipment for these optical discs (Sony in Austria and Japan, Crest National in L.A., Sonopress in Germany, Viva in Hong Kong, etc.)
 
Clint raises an interesting point.

Universal Music has, from day one, been interested in the SACD format in part because of it's copy protection features (i.e. the ability to release albums without a Stereo CD layer you could copy/rip). And Universal has never been shy about saying that. They experimented with that by releasing SACDs in both Single and Hybrid layer format at the start of their involvement with the SACD format. In the U.S. they encountered some negative consumer reaction to the Single Layer SACDs and moved to Hybrid SACD releases only in most markets. In Japan, consumers may be more accepting of Single Layer SACDs - hence the issue of the SHM-SACDs in Single Layer form.

Another advantage to Single Layer SACDs is that they cost less to make since they only have the SACD layer and can be made on most DVD-capable pressing machinery. A Hybrid SACD requires the use of a special pressing machine that is able to make Hybrid SACDs, Single Layer SACDs, DVDs and Stereo CDs. This explains why Universal has made their own Single Layer SACDs in many cases over the years vs. having to contract for Hybrid SACD copies from other companies/pressing plans that have the special pressing equipment for these optical discs (Sony in Austria and Japan, Crest National in L.A., Sonopress in Germany, Viva in Hong Kong, etc.)

Very interesting...thank you for the detailed answer...I just wonder if the attitudes toward the SHM model might have changed in the US now...if the targeted audience is the audiophile community the SHM discs are highly regarded...primarily because they originate in Japan and are usually indicative of the highest quality in material and source...it made perfect sense to offer the hybrid version for a consumer base that didn't have the SACD capable machines in the beginning of the format...trouble is that record companies are slow to adopt any sort of change...but I had hoped that the other business principle(monkey see monkey do) might have swayed them to offer an "elite" series within their catalog to counter the SHM products from Japan...but the copyright issues are a big deal...I understand that...
 
from the linked article I understand that the files are downsampled again. What is the benefit of upsampling first?

Oversampling spreads the quantisation noise from the sampling process. I'm not totally convinced upsampling where you generate/calculate additional samples has the desired effect, I need to look at my technical books.
 
Very interesting...thank you for the detailed answer...I just wonder if the attitudes toward the SHM model might have changed in the US now...if the targeted audience is the audiophile community the SHM discs are highly regarded...primarily because they originate in Japan and are usually indicative of the highest quality in material and source...it made perfect sense to offer the hybrid version for a consumer base that didn't have the SACD capable machines in the beginning of the format...trouble is that record companies are slow to adopt any sort of change...but I had hoped that the other business principle(monkey see monkey do) might have swayed them to offer an "elite" series within their catalog to counter the SHM products from Japan...but the copyright issues are a big deal...I understand that...

Its subjective I know, but I've bought quite a few of my favourite albums in stereo only, and I think the Japanese SACD re-releases sound better than some of the other SACD re-releases.
 
This thread's title is really misleading. I thought MoFi were going to issue Quad mixes on their SACDs like Audio Fidelity is doing. :)

Why not replace "quad DSD" by "DSD 256" or "4X DSD"?
 
This thread's title is really misleading. I thought MoFi were going to issue Quad mixes on their SACDs like Audio Fidelity is doing. :)

Why not replace "quad DSD" by "DSD 256" or "4X DSD"?

I thought the exact same thing. Seems like a lot of audio manipulation that going to have to be done. Why not just do BluRay? Strange.
 
Why not just do BluRay? Strange.

If the Blu Ray disc supported Quad DSD, they could. But since it doesn't, you have to rely on Quad DSD downloads and Quad DSD upsampling via apps like JRiver, Foobar and HQ Player to really experience Quad DSD.
The Mobile Fidelity approach takes you part of the way there.
 
I just wonder how much value it is to include CD's on these SACD discs....the SHM model makes more sense to me....they are advertised as a hi rez product and CD's certainly don't fit the category...I know the argument used to be that not everybody had a SACD player...
I think the whole hybrid thing started up because back in the old days when retail stores sold SACDs some people bought them by accident then returned them saying they couldn't play them ... therefore the invention of the CD layer. Yes, it's time to get rid of it. No longer serves a purpose since SACDs are generally an on-line only product now.

Isn't there an added benefit that any CD pressing plant could then make the SACDs? The hybrid plant in Austria wouldn't be needed, far as I know.
 
I think the whole hybrid thing started up because back in the old days when retail stores sold SACDs some people bought them by accident then returned them saying they couldn't play them ... therefore the invention of the CD layer. Yes, it's time to get rid of it. No longer serves a purpose since SACDs are generally an on-line only product now.

Isn't there an added benefit that any CD pressing plant could then make the SACDs? The hybrid plant in Austria wouldn't be needed, far as I know.

No, the SACD format was announced with both Single Layer and Hybrid Layer options. The need for special pressing equipment meant that there was a delay in making the Hybrid SACDs. So Sony went ahead with Single Layer SACDs to get the format started.

As to Single Layer SACDs, they can be made on most DVD pressing equipment - not CD equipment.
 
I didn't read it as there being any upsampling going on, they are converting directly from analogue tape to 4X DSD then creating CD and SACD masters from the DSD256 files.

It depends on the source of the album. If the album is a PCM or DSD-64 recording, as many are, then it is a upsampling to 4x DSD before downsampling back to CD and SACD resolution.
 
Screw Sony and the manipulation they do at every level. SACD is pure give me the money. Hack those bastards to death. go Anonymous. DO IT AGAIN
 
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