Pono Music - high-quality music initiative from Neil Young

[bangsezmax]

Note I sent last night to the Pono team via the Kickstarter page:

The thing that a lot of us are anxiously waiting to hear about is the quality of the source material that's going to be offered through Pono.

What we are hoping and praying to hear from someone is that the files are being created at high resolution directly from the masters. This is the holy grail for so many of us with ears who have suffered through the loudness wars and so many dreadful mastering decisions since the start of the CD era. We hear the finished products and we KNOW (like Neil and some of the artists were talking about) that it HAD to sound better during playback in the studio (I've been a part of pro recordings before, and I know what that sounds like). This is what we are desperate for. Please help us.

Upsampling a Redbook CD to 24/192 isn't really going to get us anything -- a lot of us could do that ourselves if we wanted to. And like it or not, those picky audiophiles are going to put everything you do under a microscope. It may get rough. I am rooting for you guys to do it right and prove any and all nay-sayers wrong.

Encouraging note I received back from them a few hours later:

Thanks for your comments and support. Neil's passion is delivering the best quality files available, and not tricky to get high numbers.

We shall see, but it's good hearing that the quality of the source is on their radar.

 

[bangsezmax]

I just don't understand why NY would needlessly and childishly alienate a very apparent, very vocal, very committed part of his potential key demographic by pissing off the surround community!?

You left out "very small." As much as I wish it weren't the case, the surround community doesn't have the kind of numbers to move corporate decision makers. I have come to accept that fact and am thankful that people like Steven Wilson exist to bring us good stuff to listen to.

It's your right to be offended by Neil's joke (and if you listen to the audio, it's obviously intended as such), but you're cursing the darkness here.

 

[fredblue]

Adam (Fredblue) wrote: ..."(I'm looking at you Elton.. Tom Petty.. Springsteen.. James Taylor.. Foo Fighters.. Beck.. et al..) will doubtless now have the knives out for surround, they're all backslapping turds that go like sluts with the latest buzz in the goofball music industry.. I bet they all fell in line and applauded when NY made that pathetic dig at surround music."

So, Elton is a backslapping turd? Be sure to tell him that when you meet him.

Adam also wrote: "...I mean, really, what kind of daft prick puts up with not having as many speakers in their house as they bloody well want..!?!? the proverbial missus can get back to their knitting and go screw themselves if they don't like it..."

What kind of prick puts up with all that, Adam? Perhaps a guy who want to get laid. That usually trumps any hi-fi concerns.

Regarding your "missus" comment, I tried to f@*& myself. It didn't work. I did it while perched atop one of the FOUR Mission tower speakers in my living room. I fell off and cracked my derriere!

Furthermore, Adam, I suggest that you try to f@*& yourself atop your REL subwoofer. Likely you'll get off on all the low frequency vibration!

Linda (tongue in cheek)

Yes! I really think he is! He goes with whatever is the latest buzzword/fad in the industry for five minutes til everyone's dropped it like a hot potato and then he's onto the next trendy rubbish! It's pathetic! FWIW, I've already met him but he's an arrogant little number I doubt he'd even entertain my two pennuth on anything - and why would he when he's surrounded by "yes men"!? He does as he pleases and talks a lot of twaddle. His hearings also probably shot anyway so it's all blather.

if guys are happy to be hen-pecked to get their leg over its up to them but any guy I'm involved with has to get my habits & hobbies and live with them just as I do with all of theirs. No compromise, no compression!

Take care with those Missions, don't burn them down!

 

[fredblue]

You left out "very small." As much as I wish it weren't the case, the surround community doesn't have the kind of numbers to move corporate decision makers. I have come to accept that fact and am thankful that people like Steven Wilson exist to bring us good stuff to listen to.

It's your right to be offended by Neil's joke (and if you listen to the audio, it's obviously intended as such), but you're cursing the darkness here.

if the surround music market is so small why do we see time and again demand outstripping supply? so many new surround releases sell out & the OOP prices skyrocket. the labels underestimate surround and the real truth is it takes effort, expertise & resources to remix in surround for what they perceive as too small a return. they're lazy and greedy and we're the losers in the end. to me it's a myth to say its too small to be commercial, the major labels are just too clueless to cash in on it. I'm sure the guys behind the Yes/XTC/King Crimson 5.1's are turning healthy profits - not least because they're delivering a great product but I bet you surround is key to the success of these releases.

I'd like to take it in that spirit but I don't find it very funny, I'm too passionate about every opportunity to promote surround music being taken. Neil Young had the perfect platform to embrace surround listeners and include them in his well-meaning Pono endeavour rather than take the piss, dismiss it & risk alienating us. it's turned me off for one.. I think you can all tell

 

[fredblue]

I'll add this about Elton, I cannot be sycophantic about it, I patently love a lot of his music but I don't love the man a lot of the time. nobody's perfect and he's as capable as any of being a complete prat, his behaviour has been petulant, stupid, embarrassing, fickle, you name it over the years but you can't deny his talent and/or success and I wouldn't dare to, I just feel cringe-makingly mad when these kinds of artists start extolling the virtues of things they don't understand. Case in point: 2001 = Songs From The West Coast: Elton insists everything he records from now on must be on analogue.. 2004 = Peachtree Road: it's all done digitally and doctored about with in Pro Tools with him at the helm (or at least co-producing if not in name) and he neither knows nor cares.. all that talk about analogue only has all gone out of the window, he's a hypocrite and full of bull, what changed? Him! It was another of his little fads! He's entitled to that of course but it was all just baloney he never saw it through. His PR need to invest in a muzzle.

 

[ssully]

I have no desire to contact anyone who worked on the disc.

ah, so no desire to actually confirm your claim. That's an audiophile for ya! Kinda like Neil Young. (<-- on topic!)

Perhaps you should stop being so "in your face" and go back to listening to Dolby Digital, & MP3s because you obviously can't hear the difference...

Sure I can...if it's a big enough difference. Usually it isn't. And I know how to make good mp3s.

It's the same with you, I'm quite sure (except maybe the 'knowing how to make good mp3s ' part. It may be you think they're the same at any setting.)

And I notice you left DTS off of your shame list. Higher bitrate, must be better!

 

[LizardKing]

ah, so no desire to actually confirm your claim. That's an audiophile for ya! Kinda like Neil Young. (<-- on topic!)






Sure I can...if it's a big enough difference. Usually it isn't. And I know how to make good mp3s.

It's the same with you, I'm quite sure (except maybe the 'knowing how to make good mp3s ' part. It may be you think they're the same at any setting.)

And I notice you left DTS off of your shame list. Higher bitrate, must be better!

You always have to have the last word don't you.

I'm not claiming anything. I was providing opinion. You know there is a difference between a thesis and opinion. If it was thesis then perhaps you'd have a right to question the claims.

But as you're a compulsive skeptic, it appears you have to question everything. Its quite tiresome reading your posts going over the same stuff all the time.

Perhaps you could have a listen to Harvest with the channels swapped as suggested - and tell us what you think rather than trashing everyone else because they haven't provided independently verified information?

Apologies for hijacking this thread (again) ...I promise I'll stay on track in this thread from now on.

 

[ssully]

You always have to have the last word don't you.

I'm not claiming anything. I was providing opinion. You know there is a difference between a thesis and opinion. If it was thesis then perhaps you'd have a right to question the claims.

Try not to be so literal-minded. You're one of several who have issues with the Harvest mix, some of whom are claiming point blank that the mix is a mistake. My posts about it were directed as much to them, as you.

But as you're a compulsive skeptic, it appears you have to question everything. Its quite tiresome reading your posts going over the same stuff all the time.

Perhaps you could have a listen to Harvest with the channels swapped as suggested - and tell us what you think rather than trashing everyone else because they haven't provided independently verified information?

Apologies for hijacking this thread (again) ...I promise I'll stay on track in this thread from now on.

Compulsive skeptic, yeah, science does that to ya. I might try switching Harvest front to back (on just *certain* tracks, how weird is that?) , but it's low priority. Regardless I would not claim point blank that the mix must be wrong. I might *wonder* if it was.

Anyway, by choosing this particular web board technology, the moderator has kindly put an 'ignore list' function at your disposal. If my posts debilitate you, I suggest you make use of it. You'll feel the spring in your step return immediately, I'm sure.

 

[leevitalone1]

How do you spell balony? Bologna? ballony?

 

[ssully]

My favorite summary so far:

"It's a Neil Young-branded iPod that can play "hi-res" FLACs, and a Neil Young-branded version of HDTracks."

 

[mdmost]

My hope is that it pushes both the tech to make better hi-res players and since it's being pushed by artists, leads to better mastering or at least straight from the tapes mastering with no remastering done. From the vault masters are what I seek and if Neil's device helps get me there then I'll jump on. I like the idea of taking FLAC files in my car as to do it now I have to burn them to a DVD-Audio which is a pain and prone to problems. I don't mind getting away from physical discs even though I have a decent sized collection of DVD-Audio and SACD. I won't hold out any hope for multichannel coming from this because I realize we are in the vast, vast minority on this. We're just vocal and at times (HFPA's Facebook page) very annoying and pushy to the point of rude.

 

[JonUrban]

Well, as for ripping DVD-A's for use on the Pono, at least the Pono won't GAS about the watermark!

 

[Quad Linda]

Watching "The Big Interview" w/Dan Rather on AXS TV DirecTv channel 340 (formerly HD NET.) Crosby, Stills & Nash were interviewed alone and together. When asked about Neil Young, Graham Nash mentioned, "also trying to bring out a small player that plays hi-res sounds, instead of MP3's and silly things like that."

 

[ChristopherLees]

ah well he got 2 million dollars of other peoples money to build them...the whole press release was to try and get other people to pay money for his attempt to make a hi res player like an ipod...they were after 800,000 and got an oversubscription of $2 million...so if it flops I guess he won't really lose much money

 

[Odys]

ah well he got 2 million dollars of other peoples money to build them...the whole press release was to try and get other people to pay money for his attempt to make a hi res player like an ipod...they were after 800,000 and got an oversubscription of $2 million...so if it flops I guess he won't really lose much money

It's actually at 3.95 million as of this post, with 28 days left for funding. I'm sure it will be over 4 million by day's end. Why should he use his own money? Why do so many people want this to fail?

 

[wavelength]

Why do so many people want this to fail?

Good question. In my mind any spotlight on high-rez music is a good thing for all of us here. Am I naive?

 

[bmoura]

Good question. In my mind any spotlight on high-rez music is a good thing for all of us here. Am I naive?

Agreed. In fact, I heard a shopper at Target the other day telling her friend about it! Wild.

In the world of music or any consumer electronics, there is always a desire to have the best. Sometimes fatigue can set in as new products, technologies and formats come out that some fear will obsolete that recent purchase of equipment, discs, etc. As Surround fans, we've certainly all seen and experienced that multiple times!

 

[mdmost]

Saw this today on Pono's Kickstarter page. If they get enough demand for it, they will consider adding DSD support as a firmware upgrade!

17. Will you support DSD tracks?

Not in the initial release of the PonoPlayer. We may consider adding it via a firmware update depending on the demand from our user community.

 

[bmoura]

Saw this today on Pono's Kickstarter page. If they get enough demand for it, they will consider adding DSD support as a firmware upgrade!

They are using a ESS chip that includes DSD playback support. So it should be pretty straightforward to add it.
On the other hand, with the Light Harmonics "Geek" products already coming with PCM and DSD out of the box, starting at $199, there is another option...

 

[mdmost]

The Geek products aren't going to give me something I can play in my car. If I could have both a high quality DAC and a player which Pono will give me then that's why I'm going to roll with. I want something more versatile that can stand on its own and not be an add on.