Unreleased quad mixes?

[johmbolayaSQ]

I did a search and couldn't find anything, perhaps I'm not looking good enough. But is there a list of recordings that were known to have been mixed in quadraphonic, but were unreleased for whatever reason? I always go to the quad discography to see what was rumored, what made it to the test pressing phase, and stuff like that.

I am a huge Graham Central Station fan, with Release Yourself being my favorite recording. That was their second album, yet their first and third were released in quad. Why not RY?

If there is a list like this out there, I'd like to see it. I apologize if this has been brought up before.

 

[timbre4]

Good topic; the Schwann record & tape catalogs in mid-late 1975 had a number of WEA quad (CD-4/Q8) titles listed that never came to retail: Todd Rundgren - Initiation, Black Sabbath - Sabotage, Uriah Heep - Return To Fantasy, The Allman Brothers - Brothers and Sisters, James Taylor - Sweet Baby James, Yes - Close To The Edge, and perhaps the most infamous, Emerson, Lake & Palmer - Trilogy (because someone supposedly has a quad copy in their possession. I'm sure I left out a few.

As to why the GCS titles that were issued in quad, it's a matter of timing. What albums were recent and good sellers determined what was released in quad. Sometimes they would go back and do an early title (Black Sabbath - Paranoid) because there was enough interest for such a release.

 

[johmbolayaSQ]

As to why the GCS titles that were issued in quad, it's a matter of timing. What albums were recent and good sellers determined what was released in quad. Sometimes they would go back and do an early title (Black Sabbath - Paranoid) because there was enough interest for such a release.

I had always been curious about that. I guess with the first album, fans were waiting for it so it got a quad release. Release Yourself, I believe, had only one single (the title track), probably wrong.

Yet the same can be said for Black Sabbath too. Paranoid is the obvious hit album, but there's a lot of stuff on Master Of Reality (my favorite Sabbath album) that would have been nice in a quad setting.

Or one album that should have had an SQ release, Ramsey Lewis' Sun Goddess. That coincided with some other great albums of the same year (1974), Herbie Hancock's Head Hunters and Earth Wind & Fire's Open Our Eyes, and I know Sun Goddess was a very good seller, managing to crossover a bit due to EW&F's involvement.

 

[Q-Eight]

I just wish I could have heard Blue Swede in Quad. I *LOVE* the Ooga-Chaka song. It does very well thru a Dolby Pro Logic box though. Still, to have it in true quad would be killer.... also the other Eagles albums slated for release.

Makes you wonder if there's a shelf somewhere with a bunch of Quad Masters on it.....

 

[johmbolayaSQ]

Makes you wonder if there's a shelf somewhere with a bunch of Quad Masters on it.....

What would be a legitimate way of finding out? I would love to do an article about it.

 

[Q-Eight]

What would be a legitimate way of finding out? I would love to do an article about it.

Short of asking these record companies if you can poke around in the vault for a few weeks, I highly doubt it would be possible. Taking into account that Quad is over 30 years old, I doubt anybody remembers or even cares about them anymore - if they haven't already been destroyed.

 

[johmbolayaSQ]

Short of asking these record companies if you can poke around in the vault for a few weeks, I highly doubt it would be possible. Taking into account that Quad is over 30 years old, I doubt anybody remembers or even cares about them anymore - if they haven't already been destroyed.

I don't know, I mean if Sony still had plans of releasing certain older quad albums as SACD, and the post I read that there were a number of multichannel releases ("thousands") ready to be brought into the 21st century, even if there is a small possibility, I'd like to find out.

I know someone who I've known for a few years, he co-runs a small indie label in L.A., is a heavy duty record collector, and a fellow journalist. He recently finished a project with Blue Note Records, where the label asked him to go into the EMI tape vaults to find out what existed of music by David Axelrod. For some people, Axelrod might be considered someone of interest to those into symphonic rock, or happen to be a fan of session musicians such as Earl Palmer and Carol Kaye. In the last 15 years, Axelrod's music has been an inspiration for hip-hop and electronica producers, sampling him many times over the years.

Unfortunately, the Axelrod reissues that exist now (his first three albums on Capitol, along with the various records he produced for Cannonball Adderley, David Rose, Lou Rawls, and many, many others) were all taken from the original album masters from the time of their original releases. I believe what will be coming this year, through Blue Note, is either a retrospective of Axelrod's work, completely remastered, and I am sure it will lead to proper reissues of his first three albums.

My point in bringing this up is that I had wanted to ask him (Eothen "Egon" Alapatt) if there was a chance of him and Blue Note to do surround sound mixes of those first three albums. Unfortunately by the time I got to Egon, they were already in the final stages of mastering. He did hint to me, however, that the state of things in the vaults were, as expected, a mess.

Nonetheless, if there was access to master tapes which resulted in those DTS Music Discs, it would be a matter of trying to gain access to a record label's tape vaults for research purposes. I know some labels probably don't have a proper archiving method, which of course would make things worse.

I did like the idea of someone creating a boutique label for DVD-A/SACD's, not unlike what they did with Four Men With Beards and releasing certain jazz albums on audiophile vinyl.

 

[quadtrade]

Good topic; the Schwann record & tape catalogs in mid-late 1975 had a number of WEA quad (CD-4/Q8) titles listed that never came to retail: Todd Rundgren - Initiation, Black Sabbath - Sabotage, Uriah Heep - Return To Fantasy, The Allman Brothers - Brothers and Sisters, James Taylor - Sweet Baby James, Yes - Close To The Edge, and perhaps the most infamous, Emerson, Lake & Palmer - Trilogy (because someone supposedly has a quad copy in their possession. I'm sure I left out a few.

As to why the GCS titles that were issued in quad, it's a matter of timing. What albums were recent and good sellers determined what was released in quad. Sometimes they would go back and do an early title (Black Sabbath - Paranoid) because there was enough interest for such a release.

We went very deep for Brothers and Sisters, never done, just a wish.

 

[Q-Eight]

I found a website maybe a year ago, from a fella that got access into the vaults at RCA. He said things were just an absolute mess. Stacks upon stacks of tape just lying on the floor. It's how that "lost" Elvis song was rediscovered not that long ago. Most of the stuff isn't lost, it's just nobody bothered to catalog it years ago.

I think most record companies are like that. An acquaintence of mine was allowed into MCA maybe 20 or so years ago to do research on some Buddy Holly items. I can't recall all the details of the story but to make it short, he asked to hear Buddy's "apartment tapes". The engineer he was working with loaded the tape up and my acquaintence noticed it was the original 1959 vintage ampex tape Buddy recorded himself!!!! Safety copy?? What safety copy???

(My apologies Bill Griggs if I told the story wrong )

 

[johmbolayaSQ]

I think most record companies are like that. An acquaintence of mine was allowed into MCA maybe 20 or so years ago to do research on some Buddy Holly items. I can't recall all the details of the story but to make it short, he asked to hear Buddy's "apartment tapes". The engineer he was working with loaded the tape up and my acquaintence noticed it was the original 1959 vintage ampex tape Buddy recorded himself!!!! Safety copy?? What safety copy???

Wow. If there's an alternate way of finding out about quad masters, would it be by finding access to the artist, perhaps directly or through their managers? I would assume that only a small handful of artists had any input in the quad mixes, but how about someone like Maurice White of Earth Wind & Fire, who generally demanded quality control in the output of his music?

It is a shame that tape libraries are in a mess. I actually applied for a job that would involve filing everything, but I didn't get it.

 

[johmbolayaSQ]

Almost five years later, and still no progress on finding anything new about this. But I will continue in my search to find an answer.

 

[Q-Eight]

Well, we can't always say never. ArmyofQuad got in touch with Lou Reed and there seems to be a re-release of Metal Music Machine that's destined for the DVD-A multichannel treatment so people can hear the original Quad mix. So, I'm thinking that there might actually be some surviving tape. Not to mention that Three Dog Night Quad master that found it's way onto ebay a few years ago. It had DO NOT USE in big red letters all over the box. I asked Steve Miller about 2 years ago if there were any plans to remix The Joker or Book of Dreams to 5.1, he said that yes it had been considered but at that time he was working on a new album. Haven't traded emails with him for a while, dunno what the status is. I've also tried getting in touch directly with either Randy Bachman or Burton Cummings and any members of the Grass Roots about their Quad albums. No dice on RB or BC, but I did get a hold of Dennis Provisor who replied..... "We had a Quad album?" heh.

 

[johmbolayaSQ]

Interesting.

 

[Fourplay]

We went very deep for Brothers and Sisters, never done, just a wish.

Hey,

Can you give more detail about how you looked for Brothers and Sisters and what confirmations you found?

Ken

 

[steelydave]

The existence of the Brothers and Sisters quad mix was confirmed by Bob Vosgien, who mastered the Chicago Transit Authority Quadio disc for Rhino. His post is here.

 

[fredblue]

Apparently there were Quad mixes done for ABB "Filmore","Brothers and Sisters", JT "Sweet Baby James", Alice Cooper "Billion"and "Muscle", YES "Close To The Edge", Jethro Tull "Aqualung"and "War Child" and many others! We're checking the vaults at the moment to see what's actually there. I for one would LOVE to have Close To The Edge in Quad!

doesn't confirm anything. he believed there were quad mixes of those albums and was checking the vaults to see what was there.. unless I'm missing something. did he ever follow it up by saying he had actually found the Brothers and Sisters quad?

 

[steelydave]

No, but when he said 'apparently' I believe he was referring to listings on whatever software they use to keep track of tape assets, rather than just rumours he'd heard - whether or not they actually found the quad tapes, I don't know.

ETA: I'm basing this on the fact that he provided a complete list of Capitol quad titles including the unreleased Jethro Tulls, etc. I've also just noticed that it included Steve Miller - Live which I believe is also unreleased.

 

[fredblue]

No, but when he said 'apparently' I believe he was referring to listings on whatever software they use to keep track of tape assets, rather than just rumours he'd heard - whether or not they actually found the quad tapes, I don't know.

ETA: I'm basing this on the fact that he provided a complete list of Capitol quad titles including the unreleased Jethro Tulls, etc. I've also just noticed that it included Steve Miller - Live which I believe is also unreleased.

interesting...

I wish Bob V would come by here, update as much as he could (wants to/is allowed) on what exactly happened with the Quadio programme and what the future holds (if anything) for these Quad mixes to make it out of the vaults someway, somehow.

 

[Quad Linda]

We repeatedly overlook the issue of who either owns or has distribution rights to these old quad masters. WEA couldn't possibly put out a Quad of Brothers and Sisters. Atlantic distributed them back in the day. Universal has the current distribution rights. Similarly, WEA distributed Graceland, whereas Paul Simon has resigned with Columbia to distribute his back catalog.

It matters not if the original record label has the Quad mix in their vaults, unless they turn that master over to the current owner/distributor of that title. Releasing a Quad title which someone no longer has the rights to has to be at the very bottom of anyone's bucket list.

doesn't confirm anything. he believed there were quad mixes of those albums and was checking the vaults to see what was there.. unless I'm missing something. did he ever follow it up by saying he had actually found the Brothers and Sisters quad?

 

[fredblue]

We repeatedly overlook the issue of who either owns or has distribution rights to these old quad masters. WEA couldn't possibly put out a Quad of Brothers and Sisters. Atlantic distributed them back in the day. Universal has the current distribution rights. Similarly, WEA distributed Graceland, whereas Paul Simon has resigned with Columbia to distribute his back catalog.

It matters not if the original record label has the Quad mix in their vaults, unless they turn that master over to the current owner/distributor of that title. Releasing a Quad title which someone no longer has the rights to has to be at the very bottom of anyone's bucket list.

wise words as ever from The Lovely Linda