More Layoffs at Rhino??

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Q-Eight

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Rhino plans more layoffs
Move seen as reflection of troubled CD market
By CHRISTOPHER MORRIS Variety Magazine

In one more reflection of the declining market for CDs, and specifically for back catalog product, another sweeping round of layoffs is planned at Warner Music Group's Rhino Entertainment division this month, according to sources.

Rhino -- whose name was once synonymous with high-end reissue packages and imaginative cross-licensed releases -- is plotting a course to move further into the digital realm.

The cuts will strike most deeply in departments dedicated to the production and marketing of physical product, said sources with knowledge of the plans.

At the same time, the unit is taking steps to produce some deep catalog titles physically on-demand only, through its website.

Staff trims will come almost exactly a year after the division's last downsizing round, which claimed 30-40 jobs across several departments (Daily Variety, Sept. 25, 2009). While the extent of the new cuts is not known, it is expected to be a substantial number of the division's remaining 100 employees.

Rhino prexy Kevin Gore -- promoted from executive veepee/general manager after former topper Scott Pascucci ankled in May (Daily Variety, May 28) -- has met with personnel and told them that another flight of layoffs is imminent, sources say.

Some believe the axe could fall as early as Sept. 16. WMG's fiscal year ends Sept. 30.

A WMG spokesman had no comment. A Rhino spokesman was unavailable.

Formerly a fount of catalog titles, Rhino has generated an ever-leaner physical release schedule, as chains like Tower and Virgin Megastore have folded and big box merchants such as Best Buy have decreased square footage for music.

This year, most of Rhino's multi-disc boxed set collections -- once the imprint's bread and butter, and a Grammy-winning source of pride -- have been funneled through its Web-based Rhino Handmade imprint, and some of those packages had been completed and awaiting release for years.

Only a handful of CD titles have been taken to brick-and-mortar retail this year.

Gore reflected on the challenging market for physical catalog in an August interview with Variety: "[Packaging] together various-artist compilations and [putting] them out either as a single-disc compilation or a boxed set -- it's very, hard to get those placed at retail and supported at retail. In the digital space, your shelf space is unlimited."

Rhino's website would become the principal venue for consumers seeking physical product. A source said the company is digitizing some 2,000 deep-catalog titles that will not be subject to outside licensing, but instead will be available as custom-burned discs only.

The plan takes a page from Smithsonian Folkways' longstanding practice of custom-manufacturing catalog titles not available for sale at retail.

Rhino already sells its catalog titles digitally online in formats including high-definition lossless downloads.

The company's future efforts could be more deeply focused on rights management. Rhino has moved increasingly into that realm, pacting with Frank Sinatra's estate, the Grateful Dead and the Bee Gees to represent their music, merchandise and likenesses.

The move to further roll back the physical release schedule is consistent with WMG's corporate philosophy. Chairman and chief executive officer Edgar Bronfman, Jr. has long preached the gospel of a digital future and has consistently touted the growth of the company's non-physical business in quarterly reports.

WMG showed an operating loss of $1 million in its third quarter ended June 30, versus operating income of $25 million in the same quarter last year (Daily Variety, Aug. 6). Its shares closed at $4.89 on the New York Stock Exchange on Friday.



Does this affect anybody over at Rhino Handmade? Anybody "in the loop" know exactly what's going on?
 
Hopefully, "our guy" John will not be affected.
 
There was a big layoff last year so this is just more sad news. I don't think a large staff is needed for two or three Quad releases each year so if the first two were successful, we should see more but I can't imagine this news bodes well for Rhino picking up the pace and releasing more surround DVD-V titles. As far as downloads, I still don't do it but it appears I am going to have to start or be left out.
 
So they further weaken one of their profitable departments. Asinine.

I can't find any evidence Rhino is profitable with a staff of 100 and the associated overhead that comes with it. Do you have any? Warner Music Group has lost money recently and if that is despite Rhino being profitable, I would like to read about it. I suspect profits if any are now associated with the digital sales, not physical media sales.
 
I'll pay the extra to have them custom burn me copies.
My music collection will not exist on a hard drive. I have no qualms about being left behind....I like Victrolas and 78's too. :D John S.
 
I can't find any evidence Rhino is profitable with a staff of 100 and the associated overhead that comes with it. Do you have any? Warner Music Group has lost money recently and if that is despite Rhino being profitable, I would like to read about it. I suspect profits if any are now associated with the digital sales, not physical media sales.

I also understand that folks here are going to be more up in arms about this because it's a label associated with some recent releases they were excited about, and employees of the label were nice enough to take time out of their day to post on this forum, but this is also nothing that's any different from what's been happening with the rest of the music industry (and, really, any industry) for a while now. Sucks to be sure, but that's the reality of things. There's only so much of a market for catalog releases when it seems to be the first thing the loss leader stores eliminate from the shelves when they cut their music sections.

As long as they're not hemmoraging money from the releases, I'm sure those who want the "quadio" releases will continue to get them unless there's a complete overhaul of their business model.

I will be rooting for Rhino, as well as the rest of the music industry, to find a way to the other side, whatever that looks like, in good health.
 
I just got a catalog in the mail from a company that specializes in vinyl releases as well as sacds and gold cds, with a brochure touting volume 2 of the Blue Note classic jazz reissues on double record 45 speed editions. I also see new vinyl releases as well as catalog product listed. So how come this company can evidently make a profit doing this, and Warner/Rhino can't?
 
I just got a catalog in the mail from a company that specializes in vinyl releases as well as sacds and gold cds, with a brochure touting volume 2 of the Blue Note classic jazz reissues on double record 45 speed editions. I also see new vinyl releases as well as catalog product listed. So how come this company can evidently make a profit doing this, and Warner/Rhino can't?

I don't know which company you are talking about. Does this company have 100 employees? Does it try to compete with mainstream releases at popular prices? I believe Rhino's market abandoned Rhino, it isn't the other way around. As far as physical media releases, I expect Rhino to do just what I suspect that company is doing, sell limited quantity releases at high prices and operate as a very small company and this layoff is part of that plan. It is all very sad but I sure don't blame Warner for it all, the internet and downloads have killed their business is how I see the recent events.
 
I just got a catalog in the mail from a company that specializes in vinyl releases as well as sacds and gold cds, with a brochure touting volume 2 of the Blue Note classic jazz reissues on double record 45 speed editions. I also see new vinyl releases as well as catalog product listed. So how come this company can evidently make a profit doing this, and Warner/Rhino can't?

did the catalog come with an operating report for the fiscal year 2010? ;)

like Chris said, we'd need more information before we can determine whether this company is releasing these because they're a cash cow. The entire Metallica catalog has been re-issued as half-speed 45 speed vinyl. It doesn't mean that those releases are intended as anything but collector's item for the absolute die-hard.

Very well said by Chris as well as far as who abandoned who, although I'd have abandoned the industry a bit less if I actually had options for which to buy the music I wanted near me. It's very hard to do when, in a town of tens of millions, I literally have one option for anything other than Katy Perry or indie albums.
 
Very well said by Chris as well as far as who abandoned who, although I'd have abandoned the industry a bit less if I actually had options for which to buy the music I wanted near me. It's very hard to do when, in a town of tens of millions, I literally have one option for anything other than Katy Perry or indie albums.

This pretty much sums it up for me too.

It's a catch 22.

I resisted buying on the internet for years, resolutely supporting/prefering my favorite local retailer.
The only things I bought on-line were rare, hard-to-find titles...like DCC gold discs and eventually SACD and DVD-Audio.
But then that retailer slowly faded and died (like so many others) leaving me with virtually no options for anything outside the mainstream.
Did I help contribute to their demise?
Maybe a little, but the landslide left me no choice.

I still buy approximately 25% of my music at retail (mostly in Seattle....Vancouver's hopeless now) but that's as much a reflection of decreased buying habits than anything else.
 
I can't find any evidence Rhino is profitable with a staff of 100 and the associated overhead that comes with it. Do you have any? Warner Music Group has lost money recently and if that is despite Rhino being profitable, I would like to read about it. I suspect profits if any are now associated with the digital sales, not physical media sales.

I have no proof, only the word from someone at Warner that Rhino made money, although that was a few years ago. Also, back-catalog costs less to issue.
 
I just got a catalog in the mail from a company that specializes in vinyl releases as well as sacds and gold cds, with a brochure touting volume 2 of the Blue Note classic jazz reissues on double record 45 speed editions. I also see new vinyl releases as well as catalog product listed. So how come this company can evidently make a profit doing this, and Warner/Rhino can't?

Because companies like this (Acoustic Sounds?) don't manufacture, license, design artwork, pay outside salespeople, etc. They are simply an online/mailorder outlet that can purchase as few of any title they want and then mark up from there ($50.00 for Blue Note 45 RPM reissues) - and sell them anywhere in the world. The buyers at Anderson Merchandiser's (Wal-Mart) would laugh you out of their lovely offices in Amarillo, TX if you tried selling them something with that kind of pricepoint. Typically, the minimum production run for pressing CDs is 1,000 units (500 for a premium) - print costs for 1,000 (booklets, tray cards, etc) are almost twice as expensive as running 2,500 - so you immediatly end up creating 1,500 obsolete sets of print. Multiply that by 100's if not 1,000's of titles and you have a logistical nightmare of inventory control (read add'l overhead costs). The fewer outlets you have to sell the worse it gets - especially if the only brick and mortar outlets of note left (Walmart, Best Buy and Target), dictate what price they will buy at and even worse, when they will pay you - not good!

The canary in the coal mine has been singing quite loudly over the past 5 - 7 years about the demise of physical media at traditional retail. I saw if first hand as someone working on the inside - and even felt its impact before it hit the public. Retail has been screaming about the high retail price of a CD versus it's other entertainment software competitor's (DVD's and Games) - now they are experimenting with 9.99 pricing (Universal) but it's too late. The paradigm shift of delivering content has been ongoing - digital delivery is the now & future but still rife with many issues - the biggest being that most online users believe that digital means "free." This has the greatest impact on the content owners - not necessarily the digital distributors (Apple has the greatest success but the list gets very short very quickly after them). Hi Rez multichannel downloads will be what SACD and DVDA were - a niche element that hopefully will find a place in the new marketplace.
 
Yes, I beleive the catalog I got is from Acoustic Sounds (I'm not at home now) and I'm getting educated by your post. But even if they are a distributer, someone is manufacturing all these new Neil Young records, sacds etc and thinks they can sell them. What is mainstream anymore? The market is splintered now there is no one unitary mass market for any particular flavor of music. Just considering the USA market, its so huge that it would seem the numbers would be there for any particular segment like mc and high res to justify the production. The classical music reviewer for the Los Angeles Times wrote a long article in last weeks paper regarding lesser known composers and specifically mentions SACD releases as not being dead. Someone must be buying them.
It seems there is money to be made by targeting your market and giving them what they want. Burning Tree is doing it (Porcupine Tree and KC DVDAs). I wonder what the Quadio sales figures are. Just looking at ebay prices tells you there is a demand out there.
On the other hand, when eveybody has high speed connections and rentsmovies as downloads, I suppose buying music as digital files becomes too easy not to do it. But a lot of people still like the packages...
 
It's worth mentioning that the three main on-line retailers of higher end recordings all have their own labels so in some cases they do manufacture, license, design artwork etc.

Acoustic Sounds=Analogue Productions & APO
Music Direct=Mobile Fidelity
Elusive Disc=Audio Wave
 
The main thing is, I want all those tapes sitting in record companies vaults digitized at 24/96 and preserved for all time. I fear there is no vision at any of the record companies for this... Or seeing the profit potential in the long term by actually having something to sell in the future in any form. Only the short sighted "What can I put in my pocket while I have an executive job at the record company now" mentality. And the proper investments do not get done, the tape can get’s kicked down the road.

I understand the market has shifted winds to a certain thing now and will shift again to something else later on.. So the manufacturing of discs might shift to the home (end user) with downloads? If so, fine, I just want High Quality music regardless of format. But it would be a shame if those tapes are lost in the "download" age for future generations. Downloads may be the flavor of the month now, like other formats were, but it will change again. You'll always need some sort of physical media in some sort of format unless record companies find a way to beam music directly into our heads! :D
 
Would CDs have stuck around longer if they all sold for an $8.99 list? That's what the last LPs sold for, and we were told that CDs cost less to make than LPs.

Did the industry use the CD as a cash cow when it first came out, then ride it down the road to ruin. Heck, I'd go into a "Mall Store" like Record World, Musicland, etc., and the "New Releases" were $18.99!!! That's pretty steep. On line, I could get the same CD for $13.99 (Same at Best Buy). Why would anyone buy at Record World, Musicland, etc, for $18.99 when you could buy the exact same CD at Best Buy or online for $13.99?

Of course, the "small store", that sold the CD for $14-$15 got my business back then because they were a small operation, and the service, etc was better. I had no allegence to Record World, etc. However, there were a lot more people who just went for the Best Buy/Online price and started bypassing the small stores, which all have since disappeared.

Had the price point been $8.99, the margins would have been smaller, but the discount differential at Best Buy/Online would have been far smaller, making impulse purchasing more inviting, and folks would have not had to decide about trying new releases and new artists as the investment would not be as high. In doing so, more people would have gotte "used to" buying media.

It's only one thing, but I honestly think that the pricing of CDs, which at first were touted as a future medium that would be cheaper than LPs and Cassettes to make and sell, really hurt the industry in the long run.

It's water under the bridge. Kids today don't buy or care about CDs. iTunes is starting to dominate the music market. New acts can sell their music without a label and without distribution. That's the way it's going to go, and in many ways it's cool.

The days of browsing racks of music are pretty much history, with some notable regional exceptions. Around here it's Newbury Comics, but even they have a dwindling catalog of stock titles from a few years ago.
 
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