M
moeszizlak69
Guest
has anyone got an opinion on the ed saunders cd4 cart - for or against.
I'm considering purchasing one.
thanks from moe
I'm considering purchasing one.
thanks from moe
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Quadchuck
Well-known Member
Complete waste of time and money for me!
Some folks have had better luck,"Caveat Emptor"
QC
Some folks have had better luck,"Caveat Emptor"
QC
Mixed feelings. It's a terriffic stereo cart/stylus, Marginal as a CD-4 setup. Even perfectly set up, CD-4 is still rather "brittle" on my system. 
I have my Audio-Technica 440ML on my setup and it's perfect.
Go ahead and spend the big bucks for a 440ML. There is no good low priced CD-4 cart since the AT331LP was discontinued. However I hear the 440ML is a top notch cart, though I haven't heard one in action.
The Quadfather
The Quadfather
I can assure all of you it's a perfect cart for cd-4, so go ahead for it.
M
moeszizlak69
Guest
Thanks for the input, I don't think I'll bother with the ed saunders cart.
I purchased an AT 440 from garage a records in mid dec, but they then informed me they were out of stock. Apparently they will have new stock by 15th jan 06. Garage a records is charging US$89.95. Which I thought was a good price.
Soon I'll start saving for the 50Khz type of cartridge.
Maybe China might start manufacturing them and bring the price down.
Thanks everyone
moe
I purchased an AT 440 from garage a records in mid dec, but they then informed me they were out of stock. Apparently they will have new stock by 15th jan 06. Garage a records is charging US$89.95. Which I thought was a good price.
Soon I'll start saving for the 50Khz type of cartridge.
Maybe China might start manufacturing them and bring the price down.
Thanks everyone
moe
MarkD51
Member
Three very fine cartridges for CD-4 Playback would be the no longer made Audio Technica AT-14S, the AT-15S, and the top of the line AT-20SLa (Which was said to actually be a cherry picked AT-15S)
I've owned/own all three of these, staring with the AT-14S back in the '70's (This one cost me $75 back in '74 I believe). A superb cartidge, with a killer sound. It compared well against my new then Shure V-15 type III. Also was a fantastic Cartridge with regular Stereo LPs.
The AT-15S, and AT-20SLa I picked up on ebay 4 years ago. Both were NOS never used Cartridges in their boxes, and I paid $130 for the pair, which was an absolute steal!
These pop up from time to time on ebay, and I understand that true Shibata Nude replacement Styli are available for these at that Garage-a-record, or whatever they're called place.lol Mark
I've owned/own all three of these, staring with the AT-14S back in the '70's (This one cost me $75 back in '74 I believe). A superb cartidge, with a killer sound. It compared well against my new then Shure V-15 type III. Also was a fantastic Cartridge with regular Stereo LPs.
The AT-15S, and AT-20SLa I picked up on ebay 4 years ago. Both were NOS never used Cartridges in their boxes, and I paid $130 for the pair, which was an absolute steal!
These pop up from time to time on ebay, and I understand that true Shibata Nude replacement Styli are available for these at that Garage-a-record, or whatever they're called place.lol Mark
moeszizlak69 said:
Hmmmm, a vacuum tube phono cartridge with sexy blue flourescent lights around it. What a concept, and only the Chinese would dare to dream.
Mike.
Sansui Louie
Member
The AT 440ML kicks hiney!!! I absolutely looooove mine. You cannot buy a better cartridge without spending hundreds more.
Try this source, if Garage-A-Records is out:
http://www.lpgear.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=LG&Category_Code=A3
Try this source, if Garage-A-Records is out:
http://www.lpgear.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=LG&Category_Code=A3
bliss_band
Active Member
I got a AT 440ML today, now I need a decent decoder. Did Panasonic make any Q8 receivers with a demod in them. I saw a RE-8840 for sale on ebay.
I am sure they did, however, I prefer the JVC 4DD5. These can still be gotten fairly cheap on Ebay. However, any quad gear you buy may need some work due to aging capacitors. But you might just luck up.
The Quadfather
The Quadfather
quadjoe
Senior Member
bliss_band said:
I love my 440ML, it is a great cart, and does CD-4 very well. Regarding Panasonic receivers: during the '70s, Panasonic had a rather unique cartridge that was sort of a cross between ceramic and magnetic, they called a Semi-conductor cartridge (one model was the EPC-450C-II, which I happen to own) which required a different phono input and will not work with a standard magnetic phono input. If you find one of their recievers, be sure to ask if the phono input is labelled "Semi-Conductor Cartridge Only" before you buy because your 440ML will not work with that phono section and it could damage your cartridge.
Quadradude
Member
Well I tell 'ya...
It's cheap and it lights the radar light but I think I'm going to try something else because I have a strong feeling there are probably much better options.
First off, I hit his "Buy It Now" on Ebay while unemployed just hoping to get things operational on a full Akai quad system I had inherited and was suprised to find upon its' arrival that the model number had been visibly and obviously scratched off the top of the cartridge in a not so pretty manner so although he did leave the printed "Audio Technica" words on the top above where the model number used to be it's still quite ugly on top out there in plain sight plus now I've got no idea which model of AT cartridge it really is.
That in my mind was truly disappointing although I understand the whole concept of keep 'em guessing while you corner the market.
Now for the next step... trying to make it work...
So far I've found out that the internal CD-4 decoder of my receiver has one bad half so the right channel doesn't decode at all and the other half would give obvious separation but distorted easily and often unless I adjusted the separation down to the point that there basically wasn't any.
Then I bought a used and claimed working Panasonic decoder from Ebay for a lot more than I wanted to spend and got a good bit more separation than the semi-functional half of my receiver's internal decoder could offer before the distortion still shows up but this decoder's left channel starts off similar to the right with the milder distortion then gets flaky and starts losing lock after a few minutes before it gives up on left front/rear decoding completely after about 20 minutes of use until I leave it off for a few hours.
So next I bought a Marantz CD-400B decoder from someone who claimed it worked properly and I chose it due to the automatic carrier lock feature specifically to eliminate one piece of the puzzle and this time the separation stays functional full-time on both channels but that nasty distortion is still there if I want any discernable front/rear separation at all. Granted it's mostly on the louder parts of songs with this decoder and in some cases when the whole song is loud I just can't stand to listen to it anymore.
I've tried several turntables, P-Mount Linear and Standard Mount Traditional with the same results each time. I'm about to put this cartridge on my pretty nice quality (I think?) Technics SL-1200MkII turntable and see what happens, and yes I could just be having bad luck with used decoders three times but I'm alot more suspicious of this cartridge as the distortion culpret at this point.
Ed's cartridge does light the CD-4 Radar light and it obviously tries to provide 4-channel separation but if I can't get clean separation this time when I try it on the Technics 1200 table I'll be ordering a new AT440MLa cartridge to try on the Technics and I'll be very suprised if my ongoing CD-4 problems don't clear up at least considerably if not completely...
I'm not upset with Ed or anything, in fact his effort to try and keep this old format available through Ebay to the general public that doesn't know where to turn for a CD-4 cartridge is admirable but I personally think that in this case it falls into the "you get what you pay for" category.
Close... but no cigar.
My 2 cents so far...
Hope it helps.
It's cheap and it lights the radar light but I think I'm going to try something else because I have a strong feeling there are probably much better options.
First off, I hit his "Buy It Now" on Ebay while unemployed just hoping to get things operational on a full Akai quad system I had inherited and was suprised to find upon its' arrival that the model number had been visibly and obviously scratched off the top of the cartridge in a not so pretty manner so although he did leave the printed "Audio Technica" words on the top above where the model number used to be it's still quite ugly on top out there in plain sight plus now I've got no idea which model of AT cartridge it really is.
That in my mind was truly disappointing although I understand the whole concept of keep 'em guessing while you corner the market.
Now for the next step... trying to make it work...
So far I've found out that the internal CD-4 decoder of my receiver has one bad half so the right channel doesn't decode at all and the other half would give obvious separation but distorted easily and often unless I adjusted the separation down to the point that there basically wasn't any.
Then I bought a used and claimed working Panasonic decoder from Ebay for a lot more than I wanted to spend and got a good bit more separation than the semi-functional half of my receiver's internal decoder could offer before the distortion still shows up but this decoder's left channel starts off similar to the right with the milder distortion then gets flaky and starts losing lock after a few minutes before it gives up on left front/rear decoding completely after about 20 minutes of use until I leave it off for a few hours.
So next I bought a Marantz CD-400B decoder from someone who claimed it worked properly and I chose it due to the automatic carrier lock feature specifically to eliminate one piece of the puzzle and this time the separation stays functional full-time on both channels but that nasty distortion is still there if I want any discernable front/rear separation at all. Granted it's mostly on the louder parts of songs with this decoder and in some cases when the whole song is loud I just can't stand to listen to it anymore.
I've tried several turntables, P-Mount Linear and Standard Mount Traditional with the same results each time. I'm about to put this cartridge on my pretty nice quality (I think?) Technics SL-1200MkII turntable and see what happens, and yes I could just be having bad luck with used decoders three times but I'm alot more suspicious of this cartridge as the distortion culpret at this point.
Ed's cartridge does light the CD-4 Radar light and it obviously tries to provide 4-channel separation but if I can't get clean separation this time when I try it on the Technics 1200 table I'll be ordering a new AT440MLa cartridge to try on the Technics and I'll be very suprised if my ongoing CD-4 problems don't clear up at least considerably if not completely...
I'm not upset with Ed or anything, in fact his effort to try and keep this old format available through Ebay to the general public that doesn't know where to turn for a CD-4 cartridge is admirable but I personally think that in this case it falls into the "you get what you pay for" category.
Close... but no cigar.
My 2 cents so far...
Hope it helps.
Hey Quadradude:
It's all in the cartridge/stylus. Even the best demodulator can't work with a crappy signal. You will definitely be on the right track with the Audio Technica AT440MLa. Get a good quality quad era turntable that is rated for CD-4. (look for fat signal cable that looks like video cable) The wiring has to be low capacitance. The Marantz is a pretty fair demod, but the automatic carrier of the "B" models isn't as good as manual control. The "A" model (probably has no letter) is a direct copy of the JVC 4DD5, which is a fine demodulator. In fact it uses a JVC circuit board. Rather than develop their own demod, Marantz just bought circuit boards from JVC and cased them up in a very fine case. Once you have everything you need, then get an alignment protractor and align that cartridge! Set the stylus pressure a little heavy, about 1.8 to 2 grams, but no heavier. Beyond that, more weight gains you nothing but record wear. Put a record on and turn down the separation pots all the way. What you will hear is the subcarriers only. Adjust slowly the carrier level for the best sound. It's OK if it sounds hollow, just no distortion. There will be a sweet spot. It should be around a little before half way. When you find it, bring up the separation pots to where you get the best separation. (Doobie Bros works well for this) Listen to left or right separately when you do this. Also clean each record before each play. I have to go now, but if you have questions I will be glad to answer them later. Good luck and happy listening.
The Quadfather
P.S. CD-4 stylii have a break in period, so you might want to play several stereo records before attempting finer adjustment.
It's all in the cartridge/stylus. Even the best demodulator can't work with a crappy signal. You will definitely be on the right track with the Audio Technica AT440MLa. Get a good quality quad era turntable that is rated for CD-4. (look for fat signal cable that looks like video cable) The wiring has to be low capacitance. The Marantz is a pretty fair demod, but the automatic carrier of the "B" models isn't as good as manual control. The "A" model (probably has no letter) is a direct copy of the JVC 4DD5, which is a fine demodulator. In fact it uses a JVC circuit board. Rather than develop their own demod, Marantz just bought circuit boards from JVC and cased them up in a very fine case. Once you have everything you need, then get an alignment protractor and align that cartridge! Set the stylus pressure a little heavy, about 1.8 to 2 grams, but no heavier. Beyond that, more weight gains you nothing but record wear. Put a record on and turn down the separation pots all the way. What you will hear is the subcarriers only. Adjust slowly the carrier level for the best sound. It's OK if it sounds hollow, just no distortion. There will be a sweet spot. It should be around a little before half way. When you find it, bring up the separation pots to where you get the best separation. (Doobie Bros works well for this) Listen to left or right separately when you do this. Also clean each record before each play. I have to go now, but if you have questions I will be glad to answer them later. Good luck and happy listening.
The Quadfather
P.S. CD-4 stylii have a break in period, so you might want to play several stereo records before attempting finer adjustment.
Quadradude
Member
Hey Quadfather,
Thanks for the guidance!
I decided to post to reveal my latest findings on the Ed Saunders cart because it seems that most of my CD-4 headaches thus far were the choice of turntables rather than the cartridge, which suprises me on the other Technics I tried since it was their mid-line that looked like the 1200 but had a sligntly inferior tonearm (as far as much more limited adjustability), and was semi-automatic (auto-on/auto0return) but it did have huge cables like the SL-1200Mk2 does. The Sony PS-FL7 and FL7II Linear "front-loading" tables I've got (table actually slides out of the cabinet for use via a slick motorized open/close feature) were apparently the source of the majority of the distortion I'd been experiencing.
I was planning on using the black one (7II) for Stereo/QS/SQ and the silver one (plain 7) for CD-4 to prevent the need for cartridge swapping and have them both stacked nicely on top of my quad receiver in the entertainment center, but alas that plan seems to have been greatly flawed...
I installed the P-mount adapter on a headshell and plugged in the Ed Saunders Audio Technica cart, printed out the free alignment template I found a link to from somewhere on this site, spent a while moving the adapter forwards and backwards in the headshell until both S spots met the tip of the stylus with no movement of the platter, then had to tweak the adapter slightly inwards towards the table's spindle to get the cart to line up with the template, which makes the cart look off center in the headshell (and concerns me a little, honestly), then I set the weight and matched up the anti-skate to it, plugged the SL-1200MkII into the Marantz CD-400B, dropped the Akai test record on, tweaked the separations (there are no carrier adjust controls on the 400B), worked with each side's separation adjust track 'till I was satisfied, then heard the best sounding CD-4 I've managed to get out of my gear so far...
I also found that I had reversed left and right in the unlabelled headshell and in the process of trying to set up the CD-400B decoder I also discovered that the separation controls don't match up with each other for the null as one points at 8 o'clock and the other is more like 10:30 or 11 o'clock, and I don't suspect the decoder because if I swap the cables the two separation controls do swap adjustment settings so it looks like the Marantz decoder really is fully functional and there still may be an issue I'm unaware of with the cart installation/alignment but at least my CD-4's are finally pretty much listenable for the first time since I started this endeavor. I may go back and try the Panasonic decoder and the internal decoder in my Akai AS-980 receiver just for the fun of it but for now the CD-400B is a keeper.
The Black Sabbath Paranoid was probably the worst offender of grungy, crackly, mostly distorted rear channels and it did very well this time, although it's a little hard to tell sometimes since they liked distorted guitars a lot...
Since I'm stuck using my SL-1200Mk2 table I'm just going to buy the AT440MLa Standard Mount cart anyway some time soon and see how the Ed Saunders Ebay cart compares...
I happened to notice that it looks a lot like the AT301 and 311 and E90, right down to the colors of the stylus shell and the labelling on the stylus shell itself. Would be nice to have a clue what it really is.
Anyway, apparently the nice stackable slide-out full-size Sony PS-FL7 series Linear Turntables and the smaller PS-LX55 are all a no-go for CD-4 in case anyone's curious...
If anyone has been successful in using the PS-FL7's I'd love to know which cart and exactly what was done if anything to eliminate the distortion.
I hate that I've got to find a home for my SL-1200Mk2 in my entertainment center now as top-loading is such a space eater, but I'll live with it for now to finally start enjoying the Quadradiscs I've been slowly collecting over the past few years. Losing the linear tables and the extra usable space they allowed is an acceptable price to pay I suppose...
Also, this cartridge has probably played a few dozen albums several times over and over by now in my numerous attempts to get CD-4 working so by now it's probably broken in or at least close to it.
It kind of seems that the further into the record it gets, the more muddy, and less bright it gets and the right channels levels seem to gradually decrease.
I made sure to NOT let Adobe resize the template for printing, I seem to get the same results at anywhere from 1.7 - 2 grams, and the anti-skate doesn't seem to effect the sound so I'm not sure what's up with that.
Since I don't know the specs for the Ed Saunders cart I'm not sure what tracking weight range this cart wants to run in and I don't see he cantilever being effected much differently at all between 1.7 and 2.0 so I'm tempted to leave it at 2.0 for now.
Any suggestions on those issues?
Thanks!
Thomas
Thanks for the guidance!
I decided to post to reveal my latest findings on the Ed Saunders cart because it seems that most of my CD-4 headaches thus far were the choice of turntables rather than the cartridge, which suprises me on the other Technics I tried since it was their mid-line that looked like the 1200 but had a sligntly inferior tonearm (as far as much more limited adjustability), and was semi-automatic (auto-on/auto0return) but it did have huge cables like the SL-1200Mk2 does. The Sony PS-FL7 and FL7II Linear "front-loading" tables I've got (table actually slides out of the cabinet for use via a slick motorized open/close feature) were apparently the source of the majority of the distortion I'd been experiencing.
I was planning on using the black one (7II) for Stereo/QS/SQ and the silver one (plain 7) for CD-4 to prevent the need for cartridge swapping and have them both stacked nicely on top of my quad receiver in the entertainment center, but alas that plan seems to have been greatly flawed...
I installed the P-mount adapter on a headshell and plugged in the Ed Saunders Audio Technica cart, printed out the free alignment template I found a link to from somewhere on this site, spent a while moving the adapter forwards and backwards in the headshell until both S spots met the tip of the stylus with no movement of the platter, then had to tweak the adapter slightly inwards towards the table's spindle to get the cart to line up with the template, which makes the cart look off center in the headshell (and concerns me a little, honestly), then I set the weight and matched up the anti-skate to it, plugged the SL-1200MkII into the Marantz CD-400B, dropped the Akai test record on, tweaked the separations (there are no carrier adjust controls on the 400B), worked with each side's separation adjust track 'till I was satisfied, then heard the best sounding CD-4 I've managed to get out of my gear so far...
I also found that I had reversed left and right in the unlabelled headshell and in the process of trying to set up the CD-400B decoder I also discovered that the separation controls don't match up with each other for the null as one points at 8 o'clock and the other is more like 10:30 or 11 o'clock, and I don't suspect the decoder because if I swap the cables the two separation controls do swap adjustment settings so it looks like the Marantz decoder really is fully functional and there still may be an issue I'm unaware of with the cart installation/alignment but at least my CD-4's are finally pretty much listenable for the first time since I started this endeavor. I may go back and try the Panasonic decoder and the internal decoder in my Akai AS-980 receiver just for the fun of it but for now the CD-400B is a keeper.
The Black Sabbath Paranoid was probably the worst offender of grungy, crackly, mostly distorted rear channels and it did very well this time, although it's a little hard to tell sometimes since they liked distorted guitars a lot...
Since I'm stuck using my SL-1200Mk2 table I'm just going to buy the AT440MLa Standard Mount cart anyway some time soon and see how the Ed Saunders Ebay cart compares...
I happened to notice that it looks a lot like the AT301 and 311 and E90, right down to the colors of the stylus shell and the labelling on the stylus shell itself. Would be nice to have a clue what it really is.
Anyway, apparently the nice stackable slide-out full-size Sony PS-FL7 series Linear Turntables and the smaller PS-LX55 are all a no-go for CD-4 in case anyone's curious...
If anyone has been successful in using the PS-FL7's I'd love to know which cart and exactly what was done if anything to eliminate the distortion.
I hate that I've got to find a home for my SL-1200Mk2 in my entertainment center now as top-loading is such a space eater, but I'll live with it for now to finally start enjoying the Quadradiscs I've been slowly collecting over the past few years. Losing the linear tables and the extra usable space they allowed is an acceptable price to pay I suppose...
Also, this cartridge has probably played a few dozen albums several times over and over by now in my numerous attempts to get CD-4 working so by now it's probably broken in or at least close to it.
It kind of seems that the further into the record it gets, the more muddy, and less bright it gets and the right channels levels seem to gradually decrease.
I made sure to NOT let Adobe resize the template for printing, I seem to get the same results at anywhere from 1.7 - 2 grams, and the anti-skate doesn't seem to effect the sound so I'm not sure what's up with that.
Since I don't know the specs for the Ed Saunders cart I'm not sure what tracking weight range this cart wants to run in and I don't see he cantilever being effected much differently at all between 1.7 and 2.0 so I'm tempted to leave it at 2.0 for now.
Any suggestions on those issues?
Thanks!
Thomas
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I'm running an Ed Saunders setup with a Technics SH-400 demod, Pioneer PL-500 turntable - - and on 2 Quadradiscs (Elvis: Aloha & CCR: Gold) that the last song, or innermost track seems to lose carrier. Not all of my Quadradiscs do it, but these in particular do. Elvis is the worst offender as any time there is a high frequency sound, such as a high guitar note or horn blast, I lose the Radar light! CCR it just flickers and dies on Suzie Q.
I normally attested these symptoms to bad pressings but now I'm starting to wonder....
I normally attested these symptoms to bad pressings but now I'm starting to wonder....
These are symptoms of your turntable's inability to track the innermost grooves properly. This is an inherent problem of most turntable designs but is exacerbated with the CD-4 system that relies heavily on proper tracking for expected performance. Stylus shape plays a big part in the tracking equation, which is why Shibata or line contact styli are preferred for CD-4. Tonearm design is also a major variable. You can get by with a less than ideal stylus shape if you have a linear tracking tonearm. As far as conventional unipivot designs are concerned, it is my personal experience that a straight tonearm is preferred over an s-shaped one.
Hey Y'all:
I disagree with that assessment. The turntable may play a role in that, but is not the main cause. On the inner grooves on a CD-4 record the path the stylus takes around the record is shorter for the time spent making one revolution. This causes the modulations to be more compressed. The manufacturers of records recognized this and tried to avoid cutting toward the center of the records. Tracking plays a role in that if the stylus is not aligned with the record groove, it will not fit in between the more compressed modulations and it will skate over them like a pickup truck on a washboard dirt road. (You country folks know what I'm talking about.) But the more important thing is the quality of the stylus cut. If you have this problem, you can improve it possibly by biasing the cartridge alignment so it is better toward the center of the record, but it is better to leave the Shibata stylus behind and get a microline or linear contact stylus. The AT440ML fills this requirement and is modestly priced. The Ed Saunders cart is similar to the Trackmaster 8 that I once used before AT stopped supporting them. I had to switch when I could no longer get stylii for the trackmaster 8 (or later, the AT331LC). The Trackmaster 8 was a good cart and had the linear contact stylus needed for good CD-4. The Saunders cart is probably the same cart but has a Shibata tip instead. Once he sent me one to review, and I failed to get through the first record before I was removing it in favor of my Trackmaster 8. He would be doing us a great service if he switched to linear contact stylii. But until then, his is the lesser choice. Reports from others have confirmed my findings. I use the AT440 ML now and while it sounds bright with my JVC 4DD5, it seems to match well with my "new" Technics SH400. It is possible to achieve a level of performance to where if you are in another room from the speakers, you cannot tell if the demodulator is switched in or out with most recordings, there will be no splatter or distortion to tip you off. Of course, between the speakers, that equals great discrete quad. Providing it is a good pressing, most are, and in good condition, you can get good perfotrmance. And if you can get Cat Steven's Greatest Hits or Black Oak Arkansas "Raunch and Roll" sounding clean, you have reached CD-4 nirvana. Go for the brass ring!
The Quadfather
I disagree with that assessment. The turntable may play a role in that, but is not the main cause. On the inner grooves on a CD-4 record the path the stylus takes around the record is shorter for the time spent making one revolution. This causes the modulations to be more compressed. The manufacturers of records recognized this and tried to avoid cutting toward the center of the records. Tracking plays a role in that if the stylus is not aligned with the record groove, it will not fit in between the more compressed modulations and it will skate over them like a pickup truck on a washboard dirt road. (You country folks know what I'm talking about.) But the more important thing is the quality of the stylus cut. If you have this problem, you can improve it possibly by biasing the cartridge alignment so it is better toward the center of the record, but it is better to leave the Shibata stylus behind and get a microline or linear contact stylus. The AT440ML fills this requirement and is modestly priced. The Ed Saunders cart is similar to the Trackmaster 8 that I once used before AT stopped supporting them. I had to switch when I could no longer get stylii for the trackmaster 8 (or later, the AT331LC). The Trackmaster 8 was a good cart and had the linear contact stylus needed for good CD-4. The Saunders cart is probably the same cart but has a Shibata tip instead. Once he sent me one to review, and I failed to get through the first record before I was removing it in favor of my Trackmaster 8. He would be doing us a great service if he switched to linear contact stylii. But until then, his is the lesser choice. Reports from others have confirmed my findings. I use the AT440 ML now and while it sounds bright with my JVC 4DD5, it seems to match well with my "new" Technics SH400. It is possible to achieve a level of performance to where if you are in another room from the speakers, you cannot tell if the demodulator is switched in or out with most recordings, there will be no splatter or distortion to tip you off. Of course, between the speakers, that equals great discrete quad. Providing it is a good pressing, most are, and in good condition, you can get good perfotrmance. And if you can get Cat Steven's Greatest Hits or Black Oak Arkansas "Raunch and Roll" sounding clean, you have reached CD-4 nirvana. Go for the brass ring!
The Quadfather
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