Boy was I wrong......
Magical Mystery Tour Blu Ray - October 2012
- Thread starter elmer
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Boy was I wrong......
Ge Someone
1K Club - QQ Shooting Star
As it makes no difference in sound quality, why care? It just means that bitrate on the disc can be a little lower (the sample rate that you hear is not affected).
Out of the four (5 if I count a duplicate) Blu-ray machines I have only one supports dts HD MA so it limits my choices.
Blu Ray support of DTS HD MA is (and has been for some time) fairly ubiquitous - those must be some old Blu Ray machines.
alk3997
500 Club - QQ All-Star
Believe it or not - it wasn't that long ago that DTS-HD MA wasn't included on many players. Those players would simply play the DTS core at a good bitrate. It was mostly that the chipsets used to decode the audio didn't have the horsepower (or maybe it was the licensing fees) for DTS-HD MA.
I think it was about the time that the Profile 2 Blu-Ray players came out that DTS-HD MA became more common.
Some will also point out that DTS-HD MA is more difficult to cross-convert than LPCM. But that's a different subject.
I think it was about the time that the Profile 2 Blu-Ray players came out that DTS-HD MA became more common.
Some will also point out that DTS-HD MA is more difficult to cross-convert than LPCM. But that's a different subject.
alk3997
500 Club - QQ All-Star
Edit: Added I Am The Walrus and Your Mother Should Know Information - 10/1/2012
Edit: Added Hello Goodbye, Death Cab For Cutie and Shirley's Wild Accordion information - 10/3/2012
With the release of this Blu-Ray coming-up, I thought I'd throw out some details of the recording sessions for Magical Mystery Tour. To understand the upcoming 5.1-channel mixes, it helps to know what the Giles Martin and company had to work with. Luckily all of the individually recorded tracks were saved and have been resynchronized. Essentially the MMT Blu-Ray disc was created from up-to 12-track master recordings in most cases, but I get ahead of myself.
Sources included, but not limited to, "The Beatles Recording Sessions" by Mark Lewisohn and "Recording The Beatles" by Kevin Ryan & Brian Kehew.
Magical Mystery Tour - Opening credits. Compared to the album, includes an additional set of spoken words
Some street scene sounds heard over the end of the song.
Magical Mystery Tour was recorded as an original 4-track recording plus two bounce-downs. The original recording was take 3, the first bounce-down was take 8 and the second bounce-down was take 9. For the remixing of MMT in 2011/2012, the separately recorded tracks are: drums, piano, acoustic guitar, electric guitar, bass, percussion, "roll-up" vocals, brass and a track labeled “vocals”. The vocals track includes the lead vocals, backing vocals and a celeste. This makes MMT a 9-track recording. It is also possible with modern software to split the vocals track into three separate tracks so long as any overlap between the three is handled carefully, providing the equivalent of an 11-track recording without adding any modern effects.
Fool On The Hill - Sequence filmed in France. Sound effects over the end of the song
This was recorded as one original 4-track recording plus two 4-track bounce-downs. A total of 8 tracks were recorded with the two bounce-downs played simultaneously during the mixing process. The separately recorded tracks were: Piano, Acoustic Guitar/Piano/Celeste, Drums/Acoustic Guitar/Maracas, Recorder/Percussion, Harmonicas/Tape Loops, Vocal/Recoder, Vocals, Flutes. In addition on the second bound-down (take 7), a 50-cycle tone was recorded along with a submix of the previous bounce-down (take 6). This was used to help synchronize the playback of the two bounces.
Flying – Originally titled “Aerial Tour Instrumental” was first recorded on September 8, 1967. The original recording consisted of a rhythm track (drums, guitar and organ on one track) and then various organ sounds on the three remaining tracks. This was then bounced down and a mellotron and scat vocals recorded on the two free tracks. At the end of the song at this stage was a Cajun instrumental that may have been copied from a record. This Cajun-based instrumental was later deleted.
From this recording, an additional bounce-down was made. Onto one of the freed-up tracks were recorded another mellotron, a guitar and percussion. The second free track had tape loops, effects and backwards tape recordings. That makes Flying an original recording plus two bounce-downs for a total of 8 tracks. However, since many of the later overdubs were recorded on separate parts of the tapes (rather than being combined) the effective number of tracks is likely approximately 10-12 tracks.
Blue Jay Way - This was recorded as one original 4-track recording plus two 4-track bounce-downs. A total of 8 separate tracks consisting of separate recordings of drums, bass, organ, second organ, lead vocals, double-tracked lead vocals, cello/tambourine and backing vocals. In addition, a backwards version of the song was added during while mixing the stereo version of the song. The backwards version can be heard between some of the vocal lines. The mono mix does not have the backwards version included. We’ll see if the 5.1-channel version has the backwards overdubs included.
I Am The Walrus - Full song except for the very tip of the song's end.
The second-to-last of the new MMT songs heard on the MMT film consists of one original 4-track recording plus the equivalent of three 4-track bounce-downs. It took 16 takes to complete the basic rhythm and initial instrumental recording. The 4-tracks consisted of tambourine on one track, electric guitar on another, drums on the third track and pianet (a small piano) on the fourth track.
This recording was then bounced-down to a single track on take 17. So, for all these years (with the exception of the Anthology DVD and Love DVD-A), all four separately initially-recorded instrumental tracks were mixed together in one spot in the stereo field.
With the freed-up three tracks thanks to the bounce-down, bass and snare were recorded onto one track and a lead vocal was recorded on track 4 (leaving one track open). The lead vocal was recorded with the mixing console intentionally (and slightly) driven into overload for a slightly distorted effect.
Then recording got more convoluted…
A new tape was made where all of the previously recorded tracks were bounced down to track 1. With the remaining three tracks, an orchestral arrangement was recoded with brass and contrabass clarinet recorded on one track, violins on another track and cellos on the fourth track. The combined previously recorded work on track 1 was never used.
Instead, take 20 of the orchestra was bounced down to single track on a new tape (take 25) and then the Mike Sammes Singers (“Everybody’s Got One”) were recorded on a freed-up track.
Now there were two separate recordings with different pieces of I Am The Walrus. In order to merge the two, take 25 which had the orchestra and the Mike Sammes Singers were then manually resynced and merged together on the one remaining open track of take 17. This filled-up that tape and almost completed that song. Note that when the merging was done, the single track on take 20 and take 25 that had all of the previous recordings was dropped since it already exsisted on take 17 as three separate tracks. Got that?
However, onto a mono mix of take 17, John Lennon decided to record live radio including the interchannel area and finally settling on “The Tragedy of King Lear” being broadcast on the BBC. This was added to the mono mix which is why for decades I Am The Walrus had a “real” stereo beginning and a fake stereo ending. Luckily, a recording of this performance of King Lear was made that night by the BBC and is stored at Abbey Road. Since the Anthology DVDs, it has been possible to use the original stereo mix of the song and add an appropriately-filtered BBC recording back into the recording (along with the interchannel sounds).
So how many individual tracks does this make? I come up with at least 11 separate tracks. It should be noted that almost all of the original recordings were single instrument recordings, with the exception of a snare drum overdub onto the bass track. It was only because of the multiple remixes that the instruments were combined into one track. Also, each bounce-down adds more tape noise and reduces dynamic range. By using the unusual methods that the engineers at Abbey Road used, they reduced the number of bounce-downs to a maximum of 2 for any of the separately recorded parts. With the modern remixing on the MMT Blu-Ray disc, the number of bounce-downs has been reduced to 0.
This also shows why The Beatles, by this point in their careers, had outgrown 4-track recordings.
Your Mother Should Know – The full song is the last new MMT song heard on the film. Your Mother Should Know was the result of an original 4-track recording (take 8), a bounce-down mix (take 9) and a second bounce-down (takes 50-52, with 52 being the best).
Onto the second bounce was added an organ and on a separate track a bass guitar. The original recording and the first bounce was recorded at Chappell Recording Studios instead of Abbey Road.
Magical Mystery Tour - The song reappears at the closing of the movie. Only the last part of the MMT song is used and is heard greatly sped-up from album version.
Hello Goodbye - The end of Hello Goodbye (the Maori finale) is heard during the final credits but after MMT (song). For the MMT Blu-Ray disc, a promotional film of Hello Goodbye will also be included.
The original 4-track recording consisted of 14 takes of drums on one track, piano on another, organ on the third and percussion on the fourth. This original take 14 was then bounced-down to take 16. Onto this take two guitar parts were recorded along with lead vocal and backing vocals. This tape was then bounced-down to take 17.
Onto take 17 was recorded two viola players along with a double-tracked lead vocal. This filled that tape. Rather than create another bounce-down, the EMI engineers then used the sync-recording method used on A Day in the Life and Fool On The Hill to record a bass guitar part. However, even this wasn’t enough, so the sync’d tape was then bounced-down to take 22 where a second bass guitar part was added.
Adding this up, I get a total of 12 tracks spanning one original 4-track recordings and four bounces/sync recordings.
Death Cab For Cutie – Credited as The Bonzo Dog Doo-Dah Band. Recorded by Neil Innes and the Bonzo Dog Band, it ended up on MMT as the song used during the stripper sequence. Neil Innes, of course, later appeared as the John Lennon-type character in The Rutles. A stereo master of this song exists and was used on the MMT LaserDisc of the early-1990s but a mono version was used on the original DVD (late 1990s). It is unknown whether multitrack masters exist. On top of the song was placed various movie-sound catcalls and applause.
There is other incidental music used during the film, including “Shirley’s Wild Accordion” for the coach sing-along sequence. This was recorded at De Lane Lea Music Recording Studios on October 12, 1967. It appears to have been recorded using a 4-track tape machine.
Hope everyone enjoyed the details of the MMT recordings.
Andy
Edit: Added Hello Goodbye, Death Cab For Cutie and Shirley's Wild Accordion information - 10/3/2012
With the release of this Blu-Ray coming-up, I thought I'd throw out some details of the recording sessions for Magical Mystery Tour. To understand the upcoming 5.1-channel mixes, it helps to know what the Giles Martin and company had to work with. Luckily all of the individually recorded tracks were saved and have been resynchronized. Essentially the MMT Blu-Ray disc was created from up-to 12-track master recordings in most cases, but I get ahead of myself.
Sources included, but not limited to, "The Beatles Recording Sessions" by Mark Lewisohn and "Recording The Beatles" by Kevin Ryan & Brian Kehew.
Magical Mystery Tour - Opening credits. Compared to the album, includes an additional set of spoken words
Some street scene sounds heard over the end of the song.
Magical Mystery Tour was recorded as an original 4-track recording plus two bounce-downs. The original recording was take 3, the first bounce-down was take 8 and the second bounce-down was take 9. For the remixing of MMT in 2011/2012, the separately recorded tracks are: drums, piano, acoustic guitar, electric guitar, bass, percussion, "roll-up" vocals, brass and a track labeled “vocals”. The vocals track includes the lead vocals, backing vocals and a celeste. This makes MMT a 9-track recording. It is also possible with modern software to split the vocals track into three separate tracks so long as any overlap between the three is handled carefully, providing the equivalent of an 11-track recording without adding any modern effects.
Fool On The Hill - Sequence filmed in France. Sound effects over the end of the song
This was recorded as one original 4-track recording plus two 4-track bounce-downs. A total of 8 tracks were recorded with the two bounce-downs played simultaneously during the mixing process. The separately recorded tracks were: Piano, Acoustic Guitar/Piano/Celeste, Drums/Acoustic Guitar/Maracas, Recorder/Percussion, Harmonicas/Tape Loops, Vocal/Recoder, Vocals, Flutes. In addition on the second bound-down (take 7), a 50-cycle tone was recorded along with a submix of the previous bounce-down (take 6). This was used to help synchronize the playback of the two bounces.
Flying – Originally titled “Aerial Tour Instrumental” was first recorded on September 8, 1967. The original recording consisted of a rhythm track (drums, guitar and organ on one track) and then various organ sounds on the three remaining tracks. This was then bounced down and a mellotron and scat vocals recorded on the two free tracks. At the end of the song at this stage was a Cajun instrumental that may have been copied from a record. This Cajun-based instrumental was later deleted.
From this recording, an additional bounce-down was made. Onto one of the freed-up tracks were recorded another mellotron, a guitar and percussion. The second free track had tape loops, effects and backwards tape recordings. That makes Flying an original recording plus two bounce-downs for a total of 8 tracks. However, since many of the later overdubs were recorded on separate parts of the tapes (rather than being combined) the effective number of tracks is likely approximately 10-12 tracks.
Blue Jay Way - This was recorded as one original 4-track recording plus two 4-track bounce-downs. A total of 8 separate tracks consisting of separate recordings of drums, bass, organ, second organ, lead vocals, double-tracked lead vocals, cello/tambourine and backing vocals. In addition, a backwards version of the song was added during while mixing the stereo version of the song. The backwards version can be heard between some of the vocal lines. The mono mix does not have the backwards version included. We’ll see if the 5.1-channel version has the backwards overdubs included.
I Am The Walrus - Full song except for the very tip of the song's end.
The second-to-last of the new MMT songs heard on the MMT film consists of one original 4-track recording plus the equivalent of three 4-track bounce-downs. It took 16 takes to complete the basic rhythm and initial instrumental recording. The 4-tracks consisted of tambourine on one track, electric guitar on another, drums on the third track and pianet (a small piano) on the fourth track.
This recording was then bounced-down to a single track on take 17. So, for all these years (with the exception of the Anthology DVD and Love DVD-A), all four separately initially-recorded instrumental tracks were mixed together in one spot in the stereo field.
With the freed-up three tracks thanks to the bounce-down, bass and snare were recorded onto one track and a lead vocal was recorded on track 4 (leaving one track open). The lead vocal was recorded with the mixing console intentionally (and slightly) driven into overload for a slightly distorted effect.
Then recording got more convoluted…
A new tape was made where all of the previously recorded tracks were bounced down to track 1. With the remaining three tracks, an orchestral arrangement was recoded with brass and contrabass clarinet recorded on one track, violins on another track and cellos on the fourth track. The combined previously recorded work on track 1 was never used.
Instead, take 20 of the orchestra was bounced down to single track on a new tape (take 25) and then the Mike Sammes Singers (“Everybody’s Got One”) were recorded on a freed-up track.
Now there were two separate recordings with different pieces of I Am The Walrus. In order to merge the two, take 25 which had the orchestra and the Mike Sammes Singers were then manually resynced and merged together on the one remaining open track of take 17. This filled-up that tape and almost completed that song. Note that when the merging was done, the single track on take 20 and take 25 that had all of the previous recordings was dropped since it already exsisted on take 17 as three separate tracks. Got that?
However, onto a mono mix of take 17, John Lennon decided to record live radio including the interchannel area and finally settling on “The Tragedy of King Lear” being broadcast on the BBC. This was added to the mono mix which is why for decades I Am The Walrus had a “real” stereo beginning and a fake stereo ending. Luckily, a recording of this performance of King Lear was made that night by the BBC and is stored at Abbey Road. Since the Anthology DVDs, it has been possible to use the original stereo mix of the song and add an appropriately-filtered BBC recording back into the recording (along with the interchannel sounds).
So how many individual tracks does this make? I come up with at least 11 separate tracks. It should be noted that almost all of the original recordings were single instrument recordings, with the exception of a snare drum overdub onto the bass track. It was only because of the multiple remixes that the instruments were combined into one track. Also, each bounce-down adds more tape noise and reduces dynamic range. By using the unusual methods that the engineers at Abbey Road used, they reduced the number of bounce-downs to a maximum of 2 for any of the separately recorded parts. With the modern remixing on the MMT Blu-Ray disc, the number of bounce-downs has been reduced to 0.
This also shows why The Beatles, by this point in their careers, had outgrown 4-track recordings.
Your Mother Should Know – The full song is the last new MMT song heard on the film. Your Mother Should Know was the result of an original 4-track recording (take 8), a bounce-down mix (take 9) and a second bounce-down (takes 50-52, with 52 being the best).
Onto the second bounce was added an organ and on a separate track a bass guitar. The original recording and the first bounce was recorded at Chappell Recording Studios instead of Abbey Road.
Magical Mystery Tour - The song reappears at the closing of the movie. Only the last part of the MMT song is used and is heard greatly sped-up from album version.
Hello Goodbye - The end of Hello Goodbye (the Maori finale) is heard during the final credits but after MMT (song). For the MMT Blu-Ray disc, a promotional film of Hello Goodbye will also be included.
The original 4-track recording consisted of 14 takes of drums on one track, piano on another, organ on the third and percussion on the fourth. This original take 14 was then bounced-down to take 16. Onto this take two guitar parts were recorded along with lead vocal and backing vocals. This tape was then bounced-down to take 17.
Onto take 17 was recorded two viola players along with a double-tracked lead vocal. This filled that tape. Rather than create another bounce-down, the EMI engineers then used the sync-recording method used on A Day in the Life and Fool On The Hill to record a bass guitar part. However, even this wasn’t enough, so the sync’d tape was then bounced-down to take 22 where a second bass guitar part was added.
Adding this up, I get a total of 12 tracks spanning one original 4-track recordings and four bounces/sync recordings.
Death Cab For Cutie – Credited as The Bonzo Dog Doo-Dah Band. Recorded by Neil Innes and the Bonzo Dog Band, it ended up on MMT as the song used during the stripper sequence. Neil Innes, of course, later appeared as the John Lennon-type character in The Rutles. A stereo master of this song exists and was used on the MMT LaserDisc of the early-1990s but a mono version was used on the original DVD (late 1990s). It is unknown whether multitrack masters exist. On top of the song was placed various movie-sound catcalls and applause.
There is other incidental music used during the film, including “Shirley’s Wild Accordion” for the coach sing-along sequence. This was recorded at De Lane Lea Music Recording Studios on October 12, 1967. It appears to have been recorded using a 4-track tape machine.
Hope everyone enjoyed the details of the MMT recordings.
Andy
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Not part of the Blu-ray but of interest to Beatle fans and their Magical Mystery Tour.
From http://thespace.org/ "Take a magical excursion with the Beatles from the lobby of the Arena Hotel. In previously unseen footage, exclusive to the hotel, join the Beatles on a quest for classic British fish."
From http://thespace.org/ "Take a magical excursion with the Beatles from the lobby of the Arena Hotel. In previously unseen footage, exclusive to the hotel, join the Beatles on a quest for classic British fish."
alk3997
500 Club - QQ All-Star
The MMT audio track information append (two appends previous) has been completed with the addition of Hello Goodbye, Death Cab for Cutie and Shirley's Wild Accordion. Hope that this makes listening to the MMT 5.1-channel mix more entertaining.
Andy
Andy
alk3997
500 Club - QQ All-Star
Just saw/heard the restored Magical Mystery Tour. Very immersive (to borrow from Pink Floyd) 5.1-channel mix. Hightlights are the back channel use throughout. Certainly on Flying, the guitars were very evident in the surrounds. On Your Mother Should Know, the drums were spread out and the vocals were much clearer than the CD but still somewhat distorted towards the end. Probably the cleanest sounding song was The Fool On The Hill, which had the recorder in the front center but most of the other effects in the surrounds. The lead guitar on I Am The Walrus may be slightly more prevelant than on the CD version. It was also good hear (on most songs) the background vocals being separated from the lead vocals.
Really a very nice mix overall and a true upgrade over the CD versions.
The 16mm film upgrade was also very well done. Where the film suffers (besides the lack of an actual story) are the scenes which were filmed on Super-8. Not much can be done and it's quite obvious when those snipets appear.
Andy
Really a very nice mix overall and a true upgrade over the CD versions.
The 16mm film upgrade was also very well done. Where the film suffers (besides the lack of an actual story) are the scenes which were filmed on Super-8. Not much can be done and it's quite obvious when those snipets appear.
Andy
Sweet stuff Andy, really looking forward now to getting my copy next week. I hope by the time the Beatles catalogue comes to Blu-ray Audio we might see some more tasty 5.1 mixes from the albums that had multi-tracks.
hwkn
1K Club - QQ Shooting Star
I'll be watching my copy tonight........I watched it and I must say the DTS HD MA track is amazingly good.[I had to turn the volume down on my receiver because that track was overpowering]
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I found the 5.1 mix very underwhelming...very disappointing. Looks better than I thought it could, and the extras are great but the sound is a mess(IMHO).
I should add it's the surround mix I find weak...just compare "I Am The Walrus" from Anthology then Love then MMT. The music sounds good...but the 5.1 mix not so good.
I should add it's the surround mix I find weak...just compare "I Am The Walrus" from Anthology then Love then MMT. The music sounds good...but the 5.1 mix not so good.
Yeah I agree that these 5.1 mixes are not quite as good as the Beatles Anthology or Yellow Submarine DVD. That being said, the quality of both the video and audio trumps any other release of the film by a mile, and the bonus features are great! I say get the single-disc Blu-Ray version, not the collector's set unless you really want the book and double vinyl EP
alk3997
500 Club - QQ All-Star
WARNING - The DTS-HD mix is NOT the default audio track. You must select the DTS-HD 5.1-channel mix from the "Audio Options" menu. The default track is 2-channel PCM.
The sound on the Blue Jay Way alternate mix (in the extras menu) is really sharp. The bass drum is probably the clearest I've heard including the Anthology 5.1 mix. Not my favorite song but may be moving up.
On Your Mother Should Know, if the background vocals are coming out of the surround speakers, then you have the DTS-HD mix.
The title track has the "roll up" vocals coming out of the rear channels with delays, which is a very nice effect. Horns are coming out of the fronts.
I Am The Walrus is the least interesting of the new mixes (unfortunately). That one left me feeling that more could have been done. It's still much clearer than the CD release but could have been more.
I've already had the player switch back to stereo by playing one of the stereo-only tracks. So, you'll have to make sure that you have the DTS-HD track selected (unfortunately). The easiest way is to hit "menu" (not "top menu") and select the audio again, which can be done while watching the video.
Also, Hello Goodbye promo film is only available in Stereo even if you have the DTS-HD mix selected. I can only assume it's because its matched to the old BBC promo film.
Andy
The sound on the Blue Jay Way alternate mix (in the extras menu) is really sharp. The bass drum is probably the clearest I've heard including the Anthology 5.1 mix. Not my favorite song but may be moving up.
On Your Mother Should Know, if the background vocals are coming out of the surround speakers, then you have the DTS-HD mix.
The title track has the "roll up" vocals coming out of the rear channels with delays, which is a very nice effect. Horns are coming out of the fronts.
I Am The Walrus is the least interesting of the new mixes (unfortunately). That one left me feeling that more could have been done. It's still much clearer than the CD release but could have been more.
I've already had the player switch back to stereo by playing one of the stereo-only tracks. So, you'll have to make sure that you have the DTS-HD track selected (unfortunately). The easiest way is to hit "menu" (not "top menu") and select the audio again, which can be done while watching the video.
Also, Hello Goodbye promo film is only available in Stereo even if you have the DTS-HD mix selected. I can only assume it's because its matched to the old BBC promo film.
Andy
I just listened in DTS and then DD. I must be missing something, because i found the mixes far from immersive. Anyone here could have done a better upmix, or even synthesis if they have any kind of a Quad decoder. Great job on picture restoration. Completely underwhelming 5.1 mix, even for something that old. Love and Anthology were great surround mixes, this stinks.
BungalowJim
Member
- Joined
- Dec 26, 2011
- Messages
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I agree that the 5.1 mix is disappointing. The Giles Martin mix of "I Am the Walrus" on "Love" blows this version out of the water. Also, Apple missed a big opportunity here to add the "Strawberry Fields Forever" and "Penny Lane" promo videos to the extras. That would have rounded out the package nicely.
Andy,
I am also not hearing what you are describing despite making sure the DTS Master Audio 5.1 mix is selected...No background vocals coming out of the surrounds in "Your Mother Should Know", no "roll up" vocals coming out of the surrounds on the title track, etc. Something's not right here.
I also didn't hear it on DD, but became aware of the DD compression, so it WAS DD.
alk3997
500 Club - QQ All-Star
Give me a day (or so) and I'll append what each channel of YMSK has on it. Right now the computer is tied-up rendering a wedding video.
Earlier, I had listened to the center track and it has Paul's lead vocal and piano (at a lower level) only.
Andy
