First multi-channel DSD playback solution with Mytek and J RIver!

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ted_b

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How about sitting in your listening position, browsing jremote, and pulling up a pure native 5.1 DSD rip of Beck-Sea Change, for playback in native DSD. And no, I don't have a Sonoma workstation sitting here! YES!!

Well, I mentioned in a few threads on other forums that I was getting ready to prototype a possible 5.1 pure DSD playback setup. The thought of using J River and jremote (ipad) to browse a multichannel catalog that includes native DSD 5.1 (and 3.0, etc) is a 2013 goal of mine. 2012 was a watershed for DSD-capable stereo DACS (I own 3, Metiner, Mytek, exasound).

Well..yesterday marks the first huge step in that goal!

Mytek delivered my third Mytek Stereo 192 DSD DAC yesterday Own one, demoing the seond for their newer hardware boards), along with a simple 4-port USB hub. My goal for this weekend coming up was to simply get something working, and I assumed it would be a lot of trial and error..even though Michal and Chebon (Mytek) had given me pretty good instructions going in.

Matt at J River had just released a beta version of JRMC that fixed a couple idiosyncrasies in 5.0 vs 5.1 playback, so i downloaded 18.0131, made sure Mytek's 133.1 Windows ASIO driver was loaded on my CAPS V2+ and hooked up the USB hub. I used some decent (and awful generic) USB cables to cobble together a three-port setup, and used the SOtM card to drive it (directly powered by the iFi). I thought the hub would need power but it didn't. The USBPAL driver screen indicates what goes where (hint: the oldest serial number gets main lf/rf, the next gets c/sw and the newest DAC gets ls/rs). I guessed right the first time! Go figure.

I use a tried-and-true analog multichannel preamp (Sony TAP-9000ES) for volume and analog channel trimming (so far done via ear only; I will drag out the Rat Shack digital SPL meter tonight). I created a MCh DSF parent folder, moved a few 5.1 DSF albums into it and had J Remote add the parent in auto-import. Voila. (My next step is to create a multichannel view and use it in jremote; the view rule will be simple..."channels greater than 2"). One of the DSF folders is the Pentatone sampler that includes test tones and channel id tracks.

First up, after confirming channels and doing simple trims, was Beck-Sea Change, a tremendous surround sound album. The clarity, tone, dynamics and deep bass of this thing, heard 1000 times before, was startling. The Mytek trio blew away (yes blew away) the Oppo 83SE in this first test. And channel trims weren't even done yet. Wow!

Stay tuned for more updates.

Here's what the setup looks like (stacked Myteks next to my CAPS V2+. The other thing is simply a gigabit ethernet switch, so my 2 channel setup would still have ethernet).
dsd51v1.JPG

Updates:
Myteks are all stock. They were set for bypass volume. J River was setup for ASIO and bitstream "DSD" (not "DoP"). Rebooted initially as one of the DACS wasn't seeing the CAPS, and J River was having issues. Reboot took care of everything. I do not have Fidelizer running currently. Win 8 is un-tweaked currently (I've used Fidelizer to do that so far, short of a good list of changes). ISO's were extracted using "extract DST DSF multichannel.bat" and I appended each DSF multichannel album name with "(DSD MCH)" to intially differentiate from its DSD stereo counterpart.. As i said earlier, I will simply make a mch view that jremote will also use.

Oh, the DSF 5.1 folders are freaking huge. My 1000 ripped SACDs in stereo are like 2.5TB; for mch we're gonna need a bigger boat!
 
BTW, PCM rocks too. Just listened to Donald Fagen-Kamakiriad (DVD_A 24/96 5.1 flac mch files). Channel trims seemed fine too. Yeah!
 
Ted, thanks for this input. Btw, how do you kow, is there any realistic hope for simple (mch) DSD bitstreaming from PC through HDMI?
 
I know of no HDMI-based multichannel DACS (or even HDMI-based stereo DSD DACs), except DSD-capable AVR's of course. Not sure if an HDMI pc output would support 5.1 DSF, for example. Would be easier for sure.
 
Ted, thanks for this input. Btw, how do you kow, is there any realistic hope for simple (mch) DSD bitstreaming from PC through HDMI?
Not likely. I have heard that the NAD M51 might soon do DSD in stereo and there is a promised Levinson DAC/Pre that will do the same. The only possible solution that I can think of would be an Oppo BDP-103/105 if/when Oppo adds support for DSD as has been intimated for both the USB and ethernet inputs. Right now, the HDMI input forces the source to convert DSD to PCM.
 
Ted, thanks for this input. Btw, how do you kow, is there any realistic hope for simple (mch) DSD bitstreaming from PC through HDMI?

I was thinking if the right guy became interested they could choose either amd or nvidia and possibly mod the drivers to pass through dsd.

I have no idea if this would even be possible/plausible though.

I know in the case of the amd catalyst drivers there is a large community of geeks and always some modded versions of the drivers out there for various purposes.

It may be these commonly available mods are typically simply edits to .ini files to allow certain cards or modes, I haven't looked closely.

Again, what I'm suggesting may be way harder and/or impossible to accomplish.

Would be interesting to hear the idea commented on by a real amd or nvidia video driver development expert.
 
Technical question: there is a specific reason you connected the three stereo dac at the same usb hub, instead of plug each one into a separate usb port on the pc?
 
Not likely. I have heard that the NAD M51 might soon do DSD in stereo and there is a promised Levinson DAC/Pre that will do the same. The only possible solution that I can think of would be an Oppo BDP-103/105 if/when Oppo adds support for DSD as has been intimated for both the USB and ethernet inputs. Right now, the HDMI input forces the source to convert DSD to PCM.

Has Oppo given a hint to this happening? If so, then the 105 would be my next purchase to go along with my 93.

A big kudos to ted_b for your efforts in helping all of us multi-channel freaks! You helped me back up my sacd collection through my PS3. Keep up the great work!
 
Has Oppo given a hint to this happening? If so, then the 105 would be my next purchase to go along with my 93.
No. They have said it is on their agenda but give no clue as to where it ranks in their priorities.
 
The folks at Blue Coast Records in Silicon Valley are hinting about their plans for a PC/server based solution that would serve up Multichannel DSD files in their latest bulletin from CES.
I'd keep an eye out for this - sounds very promising, especially given their expertise in producing very high quality SACD and DSD releases!

CES Report from Blue Coast
"We may have some surprise announcements in the near future about DSD and multi-channel playback, but for now, our efforts are concentrated on getting new content for you to purchase in DSD and perfect the systems of delivery we have in place."
 
hey ted. how much money would i need to have the exact same setup that you have for this experiment?


How about sitting in your listening position, browsing jremote, and pulling up a pure native 5.1 DSD rip of Beck-Sea Change, for playback in native DSD. And no, I don't have a Sonoma workstation sitting here! YES!!

Well, I mentioned in a few threads on other forums that I was getting ready to prototype a possible 5.1 pure DSD playback setup. The thought of using J River and jremote (ipad) to browse a multichannel catalog that includes native DSD 5.1 (and 3.0, etc) is a 2013 goal of mine. 2012 was a watershed for DSD-capable stereo DACS (I own 3, Metiner, Mytek, exasound).

Well..yesterday marks the first huge step in that goal!

Mytek delivered my third Mytek Stereo 192 DSD DAC yesterday Own one, demoing the seond for their newer hardware boards), along with a simple 4-port USB hub. My goal for this weekend coming up was to simply get something working, and I assumed it would be a lot of trial and error..even though Michal and Chebon (Mytek) had given me pretty good instructions going in.

Matt at J River had just released a beta version of JRMC that fixed a couple idiosyncrasies in 5.0 vs 5.1 playback, so i downloaded 18.0131, made sure Mytek's 133.1 Windows ASIO driver was loaded on my CAPS V2+ and hooked up the USB hub. I used some decent (and awful generic) USB cables to cobble together a three-port setup, and used the SOtM card to drive it (directly powered by the iFi). I thought the hub would need power but it didn't. The USBPAL driver screen indicates what goes where (hint: the oldest serial number gets main lf/rf, the next gets c/sw and the newest DAC gets ls/rs). I guessed right the first time! Go figure.

I use a tried-and-true analog multichannel preamp (Sony TAP-9000ES) for volume and analog channel trimming (so far done via ear only; I will drag out the Rat Shack digital SPL meter tonight). I created a MCh DSF parent folder, moved a few 5.1 DSF albums into it and had J Remote add the parent in auto-import. Voila. (My next step is to create a multichannel view and use it in jremote; the view rule will be simple..."channels greater than 2"). One of the DSF folders is the Pentatone sampler that includes test tones and channel id tracks.

First up, after confirming channels and doing simple trims, was Beck-Sea Change, a tremendous surround sound album. The clarity, tone, dynamics and deep bass of this thing, heard 1000 times before, was startling. The Mytek trio blew away (yes blew away) the Oppo 83SE in this first test. And channel trims weren't even done yet. Wow!

Stay tuned for more updates.

Here's what the setup looks like (stacked Myteks next to my CAPS V2+. The other thing is simply a gigabit ethernet switch, so my 2 channel setup would still have ethernet).
View attachment 9298

Updates:
Myteks are all stock. They were set for bypass volume. J River was setup for ASIO and bitstream "DSD" (not "DoP"). Rebooted initially as one of the DACS wasn't seeing the CAPS, and J River was having issues. Reboot took care of everything. I do not have Fidelizer running currently. Win 8 is un-tweaked currently (I've used Fidelizer to do that so far, short of a good list of changes). ISO's were extracted using "extract DST DSF multichannel.bat" and I appended each DSF multichannel album name with "(DSD MCH)" to intially differentiate from its DSD stereo counterpart.. As i said earlier, I will simply make a mch view that jremote will also use.

Oh, the DSF 5.1 folders are freaking huge. My 1000 ripped SACDs in stereo are like 2.5TB; for mch we're gonna need a bigger boat!
 
hey ted. how much money would i need to have the exact same setup that you have for this experiment?

Well, the DACs are each $1500, and my computer server is $750 (inc Win 8 license and SOtM USB card). JRiver costs $49. Doesn't include cabling, and anything downstream of course. :)

Thanks for the nice comments...I was not receiving any email alerts that this thread was active, so sorry bout that.

Update: Using new beta Mytek drivers and firmware I have the three DACs now word clock synch'd, which seems to bring about great solidity (and we were having a few random click issues, which are gone now). Here is a setup diagram a threw together:

mytekstack setup.jpg
 
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