Motown Quad releases

I know that Motown released a few albums in Japan in CD-4 Quad back in the 70s, but I don't know much about which titles were released (aside from the Temptations "All Directions", one I'm still looking for.)

What I'd really love to find is that Stevie Wonder's great albums of the '70s had been mixed in Quad at one point, but I haven't been able to find any info that says anything either way. I'd love to hear "Music Of My Mind" "Talking Book" and "Innervisions" in Quad.

Anyone have any info?

The Motown Quads are a strange lot. I cannot understand why more were not released over here. The few Q8's that did get released were few and far between. I don't think I ever remember seeing one in a store, even back in '74 and '75. They do show up on eBay from time to time.

As for the Japanese CD-4 only titles, again, some high profile stuff. Jackson 5, Temptations, Diana Ross, etc. This would have sold over here.

Anyone know the story behind these titles? Cai or Tad maybe?

I can tell you that the quad tapes sent to Japan were probably not mixed with quad in mind. The Supremes hits collection contains mixes with the wrong vocal tracks (including mistakes), so I think that the Japanese arm asked for quads and got session tapes.

quadwreck said:

I can tell you that the quad tapes sent to Japan were probably not mixed with quad in mind. The Supremes hits collection contains mixes with the wrong vocal tracks (including mistakes), so I think that the Japanese arm asked for quads and got session tapes.

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I wonder if those are the same multitrack tapes used to mix some of the earlier songs into stereo that were originally issued only in Mono (where the Stereo version of a song had a completely different vocal then the Mono version.) Songs like "Jimmy Mack" by Martha Reeves & the Vandellas come to mind.

On the Jackson 5 Hits CD-4, the song "I'll be There" has a totally different vocal lead by Michael, even to the point of having different lyrics in one spot!

This is one of the more fascinating aspects of Quad that I'd like to know more about. Motown certainly had plenty of multitracks, but never really got into Quad, and it remains a mystery why Japan got a little(though not much)and we got next to nothing.

Alternate takes or takes that are part master/part alternate are nothing new to Quad, which makes me want to hear these all the more to see what happened. I still lament that all the Motown multichannel we have to date is Marvin and BoyzIIMen, AFAIK.

ED

HearToTemptYou said:

What I'd really love to find is that Stevie Wonder's great albums of the '70s had been mixed in Quad at one point, but I haven't been able to find any info that says anything either way. I'd love to hear "Music Of My Mind" "Talking Book" and "Innervisions" in Quad.

Anyone have any info?

Click to expand...

I've never seen or been able to verify the existence of an official Stevie Wonder quad release. But the following article (which I regrettably meant to post long ago but never did) seems to verify at least that some of his music was mixed in quad.

Stevie Wonder collaborator Bob Margouleff mentioning mixing his music in quad:

http://mixonline.com/recording/interviews/audio_mi_casa_studios/index.html

"Margouleff: Prior to doing DVDs, we had about a two-year stint preparing surround materials for DTS. We met David DelGrosso [VP of marketing at DTS Entertainment], who said he needed to have some stuff mixed in surround, and I had some experience in quad mixing from my Stevie Wonder days. So, Brant and I started repurposing some classical music for them. And then through my Motown connection, we got a little group called Boyz II Men. And not only did we mix it in surround with Brant at the helm, but we also sort of introduced the then-new Capricorn console as a surround mixing system at the Enterprise. We came out with a very, very good product, which I still think in many ways stands up today as a good example of what surround can really be."


The question is: Was this just for experimental purposes and never released? Or did Stevie release an album or two as unmarked matrix quads? I know that at least Innervisions decodes really well through a TATE set in one of the non-SQ modes (can't remember which). Try it!

Margouleff may just be referring to the fact that he did quad mixes during the years he worked with Stevie Wonder - I know he did the quad mixes of some of the Isley Brothers albums for one. As for the Motown quads, there could be a variety of reasons, from Motown thinking that it wasn't financially viable to release the quad mixes Stateside, which is very possible since many of these came out in '74/'75, at which point many companies were already scaling back their quad output, to the possibility that the artists had contracts where they would have to be consulted and/or approve new mixes, etc.

As for the alternate vocals, parts, etc. in the quad mixes, there are a few possible reasons. One is that the original vocals weren't available...sometimes what they would do is make an instrumental mix of the track, and then play it back and have the singers sing on top of it live and record this on to another 2-track machine. In this case there would be no isolated vocal track to do the quad mix - the Beach Boys did this a lot. Another possibility is that the mix engineer just didn't notice the differences - in the quad days there wasn't the emphasis on making the quad mixes authentic to the stereo versions...the Santana quads are a good example of this. I also suspect that since these were Japan-only quad releases (talk about a niche within a niche) that Motown didn't want to spend too much time and money on these. The fact that pretty much the only domestic Motown quad releases were live albums makes me think that they felt the studio quads were just not good enough for domestic release.

OK, here's a more definitive statement from Home Theater, October 1999:

http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache...gouleff+"stevie+wonder"+quad&hl=en&lr=lang_en

"I began with producer/engineer Robert Margouleff, a true believer in 5.1 if there ever was one. "I always wanted to do music in surround. For me that's always been the missing element," he says. He experimented with surround with Stevie Wonder back in the early '70s, when he coproduced and engineered several releases in quadraphonic sound: Music of My Mind, Talking Book, Innervisions, and Fulfillingness' First Finale. But quad died an awful death. The very idea that music and sound should come from a flat, 2-D stage rankles Margouleff, he wants "the music and the listener to occupy the same space."

Wow, that's very exciting - perhaps it would be worth going on the Motown message boards and getting in touch with Harry Weinger, he does all the Motown reissues and is very active on their message boards. I'm sure it won't get them released immediately, but it wouldn't hurt to let the head of their reissue department know that these things exist.

zabble said:

The question is: Was this just for experimental purposes and never released? Or did Stevie release an album or two as unmarked matrix quads? I know that at least Innervisions decodes really well through a TATE set in one of the non-SQ modes (can't remember which). Try it!

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I'd imagine that "Music of My Mind" would decode the best out of these albums. Out of all the Stevie Wonder LPs, that one seems to have the "biggest" and widest stereo sound.

I just managed to get a copy of "Diana & Marvin" (Tamla-Motown) but have yet
to check it out. It seems Japan got a few quad LPs that we didn't get like the Stylistics (ironically for me... recorded right here in Philly and you'd have to go 12,000 miles and pull a few teeth to get any!) or say, American Woman by Guess Who, again, Japanese quad but none here. At least PIR put out most of their stuff in quad (SQ).
Who knows what evils decided what got quad and what didn't.
The same evils that released not one darn Bowie LP in quad or Led Zeppelin quad.
No Moody Blues LPs but all on reel and 8-Track.
Lemmie at em!!!!! Just once.. POW! right in the kisser!

-Bob

There are a ton of Motown releases I'd love to hear in Quad.

I would be interested in any more info available on the subject.

I recently found out that the Temptations "1990" LP was issued in Quad. That's one I really want to hear.

I know this is a Motown thread, but it was mentioned that it was too bad The Moody Blues releases were all only on QR or Q8.

Here's a lil tidbit I picked up in Japan in the 70's along with The Supreme's Greatest Hits (both in LP CD-4)

Getting back onto this thread, there were a fairly decent range of USA Motown releases in both SQ and CD-4 . . . I own a few.

Just wish I had the time or an easy way to convert them all to DTS CDs

The Japanese CD-4 Motown quad releases, including releases by The Supremes and The Temptations, are pretty much my all-time favorite quadraponic vinyl slabs. Still crossing my fingers and holding my breath in hopes of finding those Marvin Gaye and Rare Earth releases!

I recently latched onto a copy of the Japanese CD-4 of "1990" by The Temptations, but sadly, it was pretty beat up. I'd love to find a clean copy and do a conversion...

bearbis said:

Getting back onto this thread, there were a fairly decent range of USA Motown releases in both SQ and CD-4 . . . I own a few.

Just wish I had the time or an easy way to convert them all to DTS CDs

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I knew only CD4... what Motown LP did the SQ way?

winopener said:

I knew only CD4... what Motown LP did the SQ way?

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I had the same thought. There were plenty of "Philly Soul" releases in SQ, but no Motown titles that I am aware of. My guess is that bearbis is using "Motown" as a generic term for "soul". Hey bearbis, I just gave you an easy out!

Cai Campbell said:

The Japanese CD-4 Motown quad releases, including releases by The Supremes and The Temptations, are pretty much my all-time favorite quadraponic vinyl slabs. Still crossing my fingers and holding my breath in hopes of finding those Marvin Gaye and Rare Earth releases!

I recently latched onto a copy of the Japanese CD-4 of "1990" by The Temptations, but sadly, it was pretty beat up. I'd love to find a clean copy and do a conversion...

Click to expand...

Was the copy of 1990 even listenable? If so, what was your impression about the mix?

That was a really amazing record in Stereo. I can only imagine it in quad...

Cai Campbell said:

The Japanese CD-4 Motown quad releases, including releases by The Supremes and The Temptations, are pretty much my all-time favorite quadraponic vinyl slabs. Still crossing my fingers and holding my breath in hopes of finding those Marvin Gaye and Rare Earth releases!

I recently latched onto a copy of the Japanese CD-4 of "1990" by The Temptations, but sadly, it was pretty beat up. I'd love to find a clean copy and do a conversion...

Click to expand...

I have a copy of the the Japanese RARE EARTH CD-4. If you are intersted in making a conversion I 'll gladly loan it to you.
Tom

Dylan Berichon said:

Was the copy of 1990 even listenable? If so, what was your impression about the mix?

That was a really amazing record in Stereo. I can only imagine it in quad...

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You know, I didn't even play it. I returned it to the person I bought it from. I'm still on the lookout for a quality copy.