A center channel that matches big vintage mains?

[marpow]

Yeah I REALLY loved the La Scalas. I got to hear these Vittora Speakers - Volti Audio - Hi-Efficiency Horn Speakers at an audio fest in Texas a few years ago and they were outstanding and might actually have been better than the Klipsch speakers they are obviously inspired by. But like I said, those things would just take sooo much space. A center would never fit under the screen and necessitate changing the room to build around an AT (acoustically transparent) screen. I could maybe have made them work for channels 4/5, but I don't think I could see how they would ever work for channels 6/7 (just no space). And then what would you match to these for Atmos (or channels 6/7)? They're pretty unique in their sound signature, I think it would be really tough.

What is your current B&W setup? Would 700 series 2 or 3 towers integrate well with what you have? I've gotten to hear them on several occasions and they sound very good to my ear. Enough that I actually retrofitted the 700 series 2 carbon tweeters to my 7 CM speakers when I had them. Might be worth considering as a compromise.

The Vittora Speakers, Made In America, and very much like the La Scala's, I will read further.
Just so we don't get off track, I have a very good complete system, but as a hobbyist and kind of nutty at the same time, I'm always looking for the elusive Nirvana.
My fronts are Diamond 800's, the middle ones, I forget the number. I have measured the space and La Scala's will fit, and Cornwall's/Forte's.
A picture is worth a thousand words.

 

[MTB Vince]

As a few others have suggested, the best sounding/performing LCR trio will always be three identical loudspeakers across the front. All set at identical height, with their optimal acoustic axis aligned with average seated ear height. For HT use you'll then need to either mount your display up higher than optimal (and tilt it towards the viewer) or ideally go with a projector and acoustically transparent screen like at a commercial cinema.

 

[DrKlahn]

The Vittora Speakers, Made In America, and very much like the La Scala's, I will read further.
Just so we don't get off track, I have a very good complete system, but as a hobbyist and kind of nutty at the same time, I'm always looking for the elusive Nirvana.
My fronts are Diamond 800's, the middle ones, I forget the number. I have measured the space and La Scala's will fit, and Cornwall's/Forte's.
A picture is worth a thousand words.
View attachment 100689

Hmm those have to be D3's based on the Continuum drivers and lack of leather on top. Have you actually listened to the Heritage speakers in your room? The D3's for me have loads of detail and their stereo imaging is excellent. So I'm curious what differences you're hearing that are enough to make the move.

My base layer right now is 7 B&W D3's. The front 3 match yours (804 towers/HTM2D3 except the center is in Rosenut finish) and the back 4 are 805 D3's. I don't quite have deep enough pockets for McIntosh amps, so I have Parasound Halos running them. I ended up picking these over the La Scala, Paradigm, and Martin Logan options for various reasons. To my ear the 804's were the only options that matched the details of the La Scalas and offered a path to a full surround setup. They did need more volume to sound their best vs the La Scalas. The ML's had a narrow sweet spot and the voicing wasn't quite as good as the others. The Paradigms were my runner ups (again because I could build a full setup around them), but ultimately for the music I listen to the B&W's edged them out.

For me, even though the La Scalas had attributes that I liked over the D3's, I thought they were both very close in overall experience even with their different sonic personalities. I would say the La Scalas would have problems integrating with what you have just because that diamond tweeter is really unique in its sound. I had to phase in the back 4 speakers, so I was listening to the front 3 D3's paired with 4 CM5's (with 700 S2 tweeters) for quite a while. Even in same brand the match wasn't optimal and replacing each pair with 805's made a very noticeable improvement.

In the end we all need to do what brings us closest to audio nirvana. Everyone's ears are different, but I can't see the Klipsch's integrating well. But ultimately it's your call.

 

[marpow]

Hmm those have to be D3's based on the Continuum drivers and lack of leather on top. Have you actually listened to the Heritage speakers in your room? The D3's for me have loads of detail and their stereo imaging is excellent. So I'm curious what differences you're hearing that are enough to make the move.

My base layer right now is 7 B&W D3's. The front 3 match yours (804 towers/HTM2D3 except the center is in Rosenut finish) and the back 4 are 805 D3's. I don't quite have deep enough pockets for McIntosh amps, so I have Parasound Halos running them. I ended up picking these over the La Scala, Paradigm, and Martin Logan options for various reasons. To my ear the 804's were the only options that matched the details of the La Scalas and offered a path to a full surround setup. They did need more volume to sound their best vs the La Scalas. The ML's had a narrow sweet spot and the voicing wasn't quite as good as the others. The Paradigms were my runner ups (again because I could build a full setup around them), but ultimately for the music I listen to the B&W's edged them out.

For me, even though the La Scalas had attributes that I liked over the D3's, I thought they were both very close in overall experience even with their different sonic personalities. I would say the La Scalas would have problems integrating with what you have just because that diamond tweeter is really unique in its sound. I had to phase in the back 4 speakers, so I was listening to the front 3 D3's paired with 4 CM5's (with 700 S2 tweeters) for quite a while. Even in same brand the match wasn't optimal and replacing each pair with 805's made a very noticeable improvement.

In the end we all need to do what brings us closest to audio nirvana. Everyone's ears are different, but I can't see the Klipsch's integrating well. But ultimately it's your call.

I would have to say Dr, you are probably right. Why would I want to change is the question. I was thinking that due to my tinnitus the very precise tweeters of the B&W's kind of bothered me in the very upper (tweeter) range.
I thought that going to a less of a tweeter speaker would be good?
Sometimes the way I hear my speakers, in stereo only, they sound super detailed but not quite room filling.
This thought process started about a month ago, but since then I have hooked up with Mitch Barnett and we have used room correction with REW and the UMIK Mic and the sound is greatly improved.
We are next going to do more accurate measurements for stereo and 5.1 with a software product called Audiolense out of Norway, a little slow going.
So, to end this subject, another little thing I wanted was that big bad ass looking American Made speaker La Scala facing me, but I think it's all just a pipe dream and in the end I will save a ton of money and do nothing.
These other two brands have been in the running, but to be clear, likely will do nothing, but I love geeking out on tweaking subjects.
Spendor D9
Fyne Vintage 10

 

[LuvMyQuad]

As a few others have suggested, the best sounding/performing LCR trio will always be three identical loudspeakers across the front. All set at identical height, with their optimal acoustic axis aligned with average seated ear height. For HT use you'll then have to either mount your display up higher than optimal (and tilt it towards the viewer) or ideally go with a projector and acoustically transparent screen like at a commercial cinema.

View attachment 100692View attachment 100693

Are the angled stands a custom item?

 

[DrKlahn]

I would have to say Dr, you are probably right. Why would I want to change is the question. I was thinking that due to my tinnitus the very precise tweeters of the B&W's kind of bothered me in the very upper (tweeter) range.
I thought that going to a less of a tweeter speaker would be good?
Sometimes the way I hear my speakers, in stereo only, they sound super detailed but not quite room filling.
This thought process started about a month ago, but since then I have hooked up with Mitch Barnett and we have used room correction with REW and the UMIK Mic and the sound is greatly improved.
We are next going to do more accurate measurements for stereo and 5.1 with a software product called Audiolense out of Norway, a little slow going.
So, to end this subject, another little thing I wanted was that big bad ass looking American Made speaker La Scala facing me, but I think it's all just a pipe dream and in the end I will save a ton of money and do nothing.
These other two brands have been in the running, but to be clear, likely will do nothing, but I love geeking out on tweaking subjects.
Spendor D9
Fyne Vintage 10

Looking at the frequency response of the La Scala, it's going to be similar in favoring the upper frequency range as well. Luckily I don't have any issues with tinnitus and don't have an issue with the natural sound of these speakers. But I understand if you do, this can be a big issue.

I would definitely experiment with toe in if you haven't. Try both directions and see what you end up liking. I don't have any problems with the right 2ch mix filling the room and approaching surround. Though looking at your picture the proximity to the side walls may be a factor in what you're experiencing. In my room the left tower has 4' between it and the outside wall, the right even more.

My room is not great and it needs more treatment than it has. The Marantz preamp I had never played very nice with this setup. The Audyssey room correction never made things sound better and in fact made things sound worse in a lot of ways. I don't know why exactly (ran it multiple times). I just know I ended up doing a blind test cycling between Audyssey on and direct and all of my friends participating picked the direct mode. Also the Marantz had a rather annoying quality of always upmixing things in a mode other than direct. So, I ended up listening to it in direct for some time. However I knew that I was sacrificing bass redirection and room correction by doing this. Which lead to the next change I made and one that may interest you.

I started looking for preamps that did not force upmixing and offered better correction than what I had. Luckily the Mwave convention has had a room that offers a direct comparison of various preamps and room correction options. After attending the last 2 years I finally decided on Lyngdorf and their Room Perfect solution (Anthem was in the running as well). Room Perfect was just what I wanted it to be. It actually improve things across the board. More detailed, better bass response, and a seamless bubble of surround sound. I made the switch in July. And really I didn't have any complaints. But as we all tend do once we hit a certain level, we want to see if it can get better. I still noticed some things that weren't exactly perfect. For instance Sheryl Crow's vocals on the Globe Session tended to be a bit sharp instead of more a breathy sound that they should be. The new Tears for Fears The Tipping Point (2ch) had a small bit of distortion I could hear in places. The Lyngdorf offers what they call "voicings" which lets you go in and apply eq filters on top of Room Perfect. Applying about a 1.8dB dip at 2K solved that vocal issue I had with artists like Crow or Van Morrison. The slight breakup/distortion was trickier to track down and two filters that essentially create a small 1.3dB dip starting 8.2k and ending about 15k removed it. Not being an engineer I can only guess it's a room interaction with a particular harmonic. These were small imperfections, but it's amazing what can be done and how much even cleaning up the little things can enhance your experience.

I wouldn't have guessed that adding that one piece of gear could change things like this. And it's something I'd consider before trying to mix and match a setup. Especially since, if you are on here, you likely value a good immersive mix which will definitely benefit from a matched setup. With the right gear or changes you might be able to tailor what you have into something even better that suits your hearing situation.

 

[jimfisheye]

A matching big vintage main as center speaker would be ideal, right?

Matched speakers lead to phantom imaging being accurate. Any mix will reproduce with a flat, accurate speaker array. Only some mixes might do well with a "specialty" speaker array, we'll call it. (The thought of choosing a center speaker based on many mixes having an isolated lead vocal panned hard front center, for example.) In the similar way that a soundbar is special purpose for a movie mix that is dialog center and just reverb and "zing!" fx in the surrounds. Frugal and effective for that but surround music gets mutilated on such things.

I don't want to call something wrong when I know good and well some of the examples probably sound great. Just reiterating about matched speakers. It gives you a clean slate for any mix, for good or bad.

 

[MTB Vince]

Are the angled stands a custom item?

The stands are custom sized Skylan 4 post models built to match the footprint of my ATC active monitors at the ideal heights for front (26") and rear (28") based upon my seating. They are not angled though.

 

[LuvMyQuad]

The stands are custom sized Skylan 4 post models built to match the footprint of my ATC active monitors at the ideal heights for front (26") and rear (28") based upon my seating. They are not angled though.

View attachment 100700

Really. In the photo it looks like the bases are angled.

 

[MTB Vince]

Really. In the photo it looks like the bases are angled.

Nope, just my pics. Top and bottom plates are level.

 

[DrKlahn]

Really. In the photo it looks like the bases are angled.

I use the ultra sophisticated method of a couple rubber wedges to angle my center up. I used a laser to make sure its tweeter hits the same point that the tower tweeters do. Helps to make the shorter center (due to being below the screen) not sound like it's any lower. Works well.

An AT screen and 3 identical speakers would be even better, but it wouldn't be the easiest thing to make work in the space and I would lose a bit of gain with the AT material.

 

[LuvMyQuad]

Nope, just my pics. Top and bottom plates are level.

I use the ultra sophisticated method of a couple rubber wedges to angle my center up. I used a laser to make sure its tweeter hits the same point that the tower tweeters do. Helps to make the shorter center (due to being below the screen) not sound like it's any lower. Works well.

I didn't mean angled in height. I meant the L/R bases look like trapezoids.

 

[MTB Vince]

I didn't mean angled in height. I meant the L/R bases look like trapezoids.

Oh... but still nope. Top and bottom plates of the Skylan stands are rectangular to match the ATC's simple rectangular footprint.

 

[barfle]

For years, I was stuck without a center, because my front stereo pair were pre-production prototypes of a model that never went into production. I have the only two University E8s ever built.

It took some doing, and quite a bit of trying to mix old stuff and new stuff, but I finally bought three Emotiva Stealth 8s for my front soundstage. The left and right are mounted ear-height on a stand I built to hold speakers and TV, and the center is below the screen, tilted up to aim at ear level in the front row of seats. The speakers all rest on pieces of carpet to insure no vibration between them and the shelves they sit on. Pics in the build blog via my sig.

 

[LuvMyQuad]

For years, I was stuck without a center, because my front stereo pair were pre-production prototypes of a model that never went into production. I have the only two University E8s ever built.

It took some doing, and quite a bit of trying to mix old stuff and new stuff, but I finally bought three Emotiva Stealth 8s for my front soundstage. The left and right are mounted ear-height on a stand I built to hold speakers and TV, and the center is below the screen, tilted up to aim at ear level in the front row of seats. The speakers all rest on pieces of carpet to imsure no vibration between them and the shelves they sit on. Pics in the build blog via my sig.

I'm a fan of the Emo gear. It's all I use now.

 

[barfle]

I'm a fan of the Emo gear. It's all I use now.

The Stealth 8s are the only Emotiva gear I own, and even though they are less than 10 years old, I had to replace the electrolytic caps in them recently which certainly disappointed me. They were China-built, and when I had them apart, I noticed a few issues with build quality. I understand their electronics are assembled in the US, so it’s hoped that those issues are unique to the studio monitors.

When I am ready to expand to Atmos, I intend to get a 6-channel Emotiva power amp to drive the ceilings and replace the dear old Akai amp I’m presently using for the backs.

 

[Electric Moo]

Nice

 

[LuvMyQuad]

I understand their electronics are assembled in the US, so it’s hoped that those issues are unique to the studio monitors.

Only some of the electronics are assembled in the US. The BasX line is not. But I have a BasX A5 for heights. It's very nice.

I really like the ribbon tweeters in their speaker line.

 

[omnipotent1]

Not cheap but Revel Performa 3 C208 will do ya.
Over two feet wide and a foot high and a foot deep with usable bass down to 34hz and weighs over 50 lbs.
Also about 2k dollars but has the science and the looks.
Revel makes just about the best sounding and accurate passive speakers made bar none.
A relative bargain considering that esoteric speakers costing far more money sound worse and with none of the engineering prowess that is Revel.
Here's a detailed review detailing exactly why they are so damn good.
Revel C208 Review (Center Speaker)
The only other caveat I would add is if you have a medium to large listening space I would definitely suggest a 3 way center channel for dialog clarity across the seating area.Most two ways are fine for a small room but really 3 ways are much better for anything else.
Some more affordable good performing 3 ways are
Ascend Acoustics Horizon
Monoprice Monolith Thx 365C
Infinity RC 263

 

[ar surround]

The Stealth 8s are the only Emotiva gear I own, and even though they are less than 10 years old, I had to replace the electrolytic caps in them recently which certainly disappointed me. They were China-built, and when I had them apart, I noticed a few issues with build quality. I understand their electronics are assembled in the US, so it’s hoped that those issues are unique to the studio monitors.

When I am ready to expand to Atmos, I intend to get a 6-channel Emotiva power amp to drive the ceilings and replace the dear old Akai amp I’m presently using for the backs.

I’m surprised that modern day speakers still incorporate cheap electrolytic caps. I replaced mine with poly caps except for the giant 2500 uF etc electrolytics.