HiRez Poll Airto - FINGERS & AIRTO/DEODATO IN CONCERT [SACD]

Help Support QuadraphonicQuad:

Rate the SACD of Airto - FINGERS & AIRTO/DEODATO IN CONCERT

  • 6

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 5

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 4

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 3

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 2

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 1: Poor Content, Surround Mix, and Fidelity

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    16

rtbluray

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Please post your thoughts and comments on this 2018 Multichannel SACD release from Dutton Vocalion of the albums "Fingers" and "Airto/Deodato in Concert".
This Multichannel SACD release features the original 1970s Quadraphonic mixes of both albums, available commercially for the first time in over 40 years!

N.B.The four-channel (quadraphonic) analogue masters of the Airto/Deodato in Concert album no longer exist. For this reissue that album’s quadraphonic mix has been derived from CTI’s original SQ-encoded source.

(y):)(n)

Airto Fingers
LP CTI 6028 (1973) STEREO/CTSQ 6028 QUADRAPHONIC
1: FINGERS (EL RADA) (Rada; Uzeta)
2: ROMANCE OF DEATH (H Fattoruso)
3: MERRY-GO-ROUND (Moreira; Purim)
4: WIND CHANT (H Fattoruso)
5: PARANÁ (H Fattoruso)
6: SAN FRANCISCO RIVER (Purim)
7: TOMBO IN 7/4 (Moreira)

Airto/Deodato in Concert
LP CTI 6041 (1974) STEREO/CTSQ 6041 QUADRAPHONIC
8: DO IT AGAIN (Becker; Fagen)
9: SPIRIT OF SUMMER (Deodato)
10: PARANÁ (H Fattoruso)
11: TROPEA (WHIRLWINDS) (Deodato; Tropea)
12: THE BRANCHES OF THE ROSE TREE (O GALHO DA ROSEIRA) (Pascoal; Divina)

Multi-ch Stereo
All tracks available in stereo and multi-channel

SA-CD
This hybrid CD can be played on any standard CD players

CDSML8544

 

MIDIQ

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The music is pretty decent, an 8. And the surround is also pretty decent, an 8 also. I like most of the vocals, but i have to take 1 point off for what ever the singer does that trebly twangy sound with the vocals. I must admit he doesn't do it very often, but it really does not fit for me. The live album is good for live, with a quad mix better than most live mixes. Enjoyable, i vote 7.
 

Simon A

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The music is pretty decent, an 8. And the surround is also pretty decent, an 8 also. I like most of the vocals, but i have to take 1 point off for what ever the singer does that trebly twangy sound with the vocals. I must admit he doesn't do it very often, but it really does not fit for me. The live album is good for live, with a quad mix better than most live mixes. Enjoyable, i vote 7.
So you find the decoded SQ live album a good listen then?
 

sjcorne

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I like this one. I picked up an SQ LP of Fingers just for kicks to get familiar with it before the SACD came, and now that I have both discs it's really no contest. The mix is quite discrete as most CTI quads are. The music definitely has a Santana kind of vibe (which is a big plus for me as I'm a big Santana fan).

I'm a little surprised at all the attention to SQ decoded live/album is getting- As Steelydave said in the pre-release thread it's really not much of quad mix at all (similar to the Santana Lotus quad), so does it really matter whether we're getting the discrete tape or not if it's just reverb in the rears? I would've paid at least double what this disc was just for Fingers, so I think it was rather nice of Mr. Dutton to throw this in as a nice bonus. Deodato's cover of "Do It Again" is quite interesting.

A solid 8 from me.
 
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fredblue

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hmm.. well.. hmm now... 🤔 this is proving a tricky one for me to rate, despite the facility we now have to revise our QQ Poll votes, i'm still deliberating maybe more than i should.. not wishing to be controversial, I almost wish DV had avoided the contentious thing altogether of tackling a title that lacked a discrete source and needed decoding but "live by the sword, die by the sword" and all that, they stuck their neck out and for one half of this 2-fer they did it. was it a brave move? was it foolhardy? i don't know.. knowing how so many people want to know the in's and out's that go into all this surround stuff (myself included!) it was always going to be like opening a kinda Pandora's (bloody awful) box and now the cat's out the bag, the genie's out the bottle, you better rub him the right way!

more seriously.. at this point, i'm thinking for the studio album of Airto's "Fingers" in Quad that's about an "8" for me overall, taking into account how i enjoy the music, my reaction to the mix decisions made back in the day and the sound quality of the Quad on the SACD thru my system, its solid but it doesn't grab me by the cojones as much as the wonderful DV Deodato 2-fer.

turning attention to the live album in decoded Quad form, that feels more "6" or possibly "7" territory, i sensed a change in sound (rather than an out and out dip in actual sound quality.. maybe i was already surreptitiously biased!?).. I just didn't enjoy it as much as Fingers.. plus it didn't strike me as the most rivetting live gig committed to tape of all time, the crowd often don't add that much oomph to proceedings.. anyway enough waffling, i need to give it a few more listens before i commit but right now i'm veering towards a "7" for the package overall.
 

4-earredwonder

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hmm.. well.. hmm now... 🤔 this is proving a tricky one for me to rate, despite the facility we now have to revise our QQ Poll votes, i'm still deliberating maybe more than i should.. not wishing to be controversial, I almost wish DV had avoided the contentious thing altogether of tackling a title that lacked a discrete source and needed decoding but "live by the sword, die by the sword" and all that, they stuck their neck out and for one half of this 2-fer they did it. was it a brave move? was it foolhardy? i don't know.. knowing how so many people want to know the in's and out's that go into all this surround stuff (myself included!) it was always going to be like opening a kinda Pandora's (bloody awful) box and now the cat's out the bag, the genie's out the bottle, you better rub him the right way!

more seriously.. at this point, i'm thinking for the studio album of Airto's "Fingers" in Quad that's about an "8" for me overall, taking into account how i enjoy the music, my reaction to the mix decisions made back in the day and the sound quality of the Quad on the SACD thru my system, its solid but it doesn't grab me by the cojones as much as the wonderful DV Deodato 2-fer.

turning attention to the live album in decoded Quad form, that feels more "6" or possibly "7" territory, i sensed a change in sound (rather than an out and out dip in actual sound quality.. maybe i was already surreptitiously biased!?).. I just didn't enjoy it as much as Fingers.. plus it didn't strike me as the most rivetting live gig committed to tape of all time, the crowd often don't add that much oomph to proceedings.. anyway enough waffling, i need to give it a few more listens before i commit but right now i'm veering towards a "7" for the package overall.
Adam, put your FINGERS on the 9 button and call it a day! Better to have this two~fer than NOT! On my system, it sounds SUPERCALIFRAGILISTICEXPEALIDOCIOUS! Maybe it's the magic GOOP I use!
 

fredblue

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Adam, put your FINGERS on the 9 button and call it a day! Better to have this two~fer than NOT! On my system, it sounds SUPERCALIFRAGILISTICEXPEALIDOCIOUS! Maybe it's the magic GOOP I use!
you (and your goop) are swaying me somewhat, Ralphie Poppins..!! ;)

just a spoonful of goop helps the 2-fer go down, in the most delightful way! :rocks
 

par4ken

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In Concert was the first Deodato or Airto LP that i ever purchased, I bought it because it was Quad. I really liked it and over the years picked up most of the other (Quad) albums. My favorite track would be Tropea (Whirlwinds), with Parana (both versions) at number two. I wouldn't be surprised if a discrete version of "In Concert" actually exits somewhere, look how "Lotus" turned up. The decoding of "In Concert" sounds decent, although at times it seems that the front or rear dominates, discrete would likely have more going on simultaneously from all directions (or not, being a live recording). I'm more of a Deodato fan than an Airto fan but "Fingers" is well worthwhile. The track "Fingers" isn't much surround-wise, but the rest of the album shines. I'll vote 8.
 

humprof

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Well, yeah: the inclusion of In Concert complicates things. Still, for a matrix-based live recording it's really not bad, even if the songs, the performances, and the overall recording quality are a decidedly mixed bag.

But if I could vote on Fingers alone, it would be a 9/10/9.5. When I first got into jazz in the 80s, I reflexively followed the jazz snobs in pooh-poohing CTI. I still think some of the label's output is pretty lightweight, but that's fine. And I never could get into Deodato. But Airto is a very interesting cat, and I found Fingers to be a real sleeper. Wonderfully discrete mix--some of more "folkloric" tunes are real showcases--and I don't mind some of the more eccentric mixing choices.
 

keywhiz

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I will give this one a “7”. I enjoyed both albums, but both have tracks I’ll likely skip on future listenings. The live album does seem more like a “bonus” as it’s not the best quad, but it’s enjoyable and I like the Deodato tracks.
 

sjcorne

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I'm a little surprised at all the attention to SQ decoded live/album is getting- As Steelydave said in the pre-release thread it's really not much of quad mix at all (similar to the Santana Lotus quad), so does it really matter whether we're getting the discrete tape or not if it's just reverb in the rears?
Being the quad nut that I am, I recently picked up a copy of the Q8 to see how it compares with this DV SQ-decoded release.

Some waveform comparisons and commentary are posted below- but if you don't want to read all that, my overall takeaway from this is that the SQ decode mostly gets the job done, and it's certainly not worth skipping or slagging this release because of its inclusion. The quad mix of In Concert is basically the entire band up front with reverb + the occasional discrete flourish in the rears. However, I would note that those fully discrete elements appear to be added overdubs rather than actual elements from the live performance.

Track 1- "Do It Again": Percussion (bongos?) in left rear and strings in right rear. The percussion in left rear is a bit buried in the SQ decode, but you can tell it's there and where it's coming from.

SACD:
01_SACD.jpg

Q8:
01_Q8.jpg

Track 2- "Spirit Of Summer": Discrete strings in the rears. A horn part pops up in left rear around 3:30, clearly visible in both the SACD and Q8 waveforms.

SACD:
02_SACD.jpg

Q8:
02_Q8.jpg

Track 3- "Parana": Total ambience on this one, not a single discrete element in the rears other than the audience at the end. You can really see the SQ struggling to recreate the ambient effect on this one.

SACD:
03_SACD.jpg

Q8:
03_Q8.jpg

Track 4- "Tropea Whirlwinds": The most active track. Features a loud percussion overdub in left rear and ambience in right rear. It's discrete but sounds a bit unbalanced on the Q8. The SQ decode cannot replicate that wide separation in the rears, so it's not as discrete, though I think it actually sounds more balanced.

SACD:
04_SACD.jpg

Q8:
04_Q8.jpg

Track 5- "The Branches Of The Rose Tree": Most ambient, aside from the occasional discrete percussive bits in left rear and some bird chirps towards the end.

SACD:
05_SACD.jpg

Q8:
05_Q8.jpg

So when I want to hear this recording, which version will I end up reaching for? Probably the Q8, just because I like the pointedly loud and discrete elements coming from the rears, and the reverb in the rears is kind of lost altogether on the SQ decode- it sounds more like double stereo than natural delay/ambience. But the SQ decode does preserve most of the obvious discrete flourishes, and it is of course higher fidelity. YMMV.
 
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