Apple Joining the Atmos streaming game!

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Upmixes. Simples!
If you bear in mind that serious numbers of allegedly 5.1 films/TV shows are Penteo creations (admitted on websites for Penteo & Halo Upmix) and there are only 3 (IIRC) certified Atmos rooms in the UK the last time I counted (which was admittedly over a year ago now) then simple mathematics coupled with the point you have made about no information on the mixers tells you all you need to know
I've had Tidal Atmos since it came,and there are many wonderful discrete Atmos mixes,but there are many that well may be upmixes.Fortunately most of my favorite bands have real certified Atmos mixes,like Tom Petty,Kraftwerk,The Doors,Yello,Boka Shade,Matt Darey,Ringo and Elton John to name a few. :cool:
 
This list is going to Ceri Thoma Dolby Music Director, it's my flac 5.1 playlist, they are awesome recordings and they sound terrific on the New Dolby Surround upmixer. So they should sound great on Atmos. Would not be possible to have amassed without QQ!
 

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I also suspect the vast majority of the 'Atmos' mixes are not only faked upmixes via Penteo...”

With all due respect, I think your statement here is disrespectful to all of the engineers who have worked on the Atmos mixes that we have seen to date. Steven Wilson, Steve Genewick, Greg Penny, Paul Hicks, and many others I’ve not mentioned, who have stated in interviews, articles, etc that they’ve gone back to the multi-track masters and created the Atmos mixes.
 
I've had Tidal Atmos since it came,and there are many wonderful discrete Atmos mixes,but there are many that well may be upmixes.Fortunately most of my favorite bands have real certified Atmos mixes,like Tom Petty,Kraftwerk,The Doors,Yello,Boka Shade,Matt Darey,Ringo and Elton John to name a few. :cool:

The only upmixes are the very old recordings that are only 3 and 4 tracks.
 
With all due respect, I think your statement here is disrespectful to all of the engineers who have worked on the Atmos mixes that we have seen to date. Steven Wilson, Steve Genewick, Greg Penny, Paul Hicks, and many others I’ve not mentioned, who have stated in interviews, articles, etc that they’ve gone back to the multi-track masters and created the Atmos mixes.
Yep nearly everything on Tidal is a real Atmos mix. Only the ancient stuff from 3 and 4 track masters is upmixed, as one would expect.
 
This list is going to Ceri Thoma Dolby Music Director, it's my flac 5.1 playlist, they are awesome recordings and they sound terrific on the New Dolby Surround upmixer. So they should sound great on Atmos. Would not be possible to have amassed without QQ!

Hmm, think maybe you should have done more homework.

Many of the tracks in that list have in fact been mixed in Atmos and are available on Tidal and in some cases in higher resolution on Blu-ray.
 
Yep nearly everything on Tidal is a real Atmos mix. Only the ancient stuff from 3 and 4 track masters is upmixed, as one would expect.

That's good to hear. So, can you please post the link to the information that confirms this? Obviously it's not merely your opinion, that would be silly, so there must be a list somewhere of all the mixers who mixed these 1000's of songs into atmos?

If Dolby for Tidal and now apple has said that there will literally be 10's of thousands of songs mixed to atmos then this is great news for all the mixing engineers out there right now, right? I mean they must all be swamped with work mixing all these songs into atmos?

It's really great that Tidal and now Apple is allowing access to all these old masters that these engineers never had access to in the past.<sarcasm>
 
That's good to hear. So, can you please post the link to the information that confirms this? Obviously it's not merely your opinion, that would be silly, so there must be a list somewhere of all the mixers who mixed these 1000's of songs into atmos?

If Dolby for Tidal and now apple has said that there will literally be 10's of thousands of songs mixed to atmos then this is great news for all the mixing engineers out there right now, right? I mean they must all be swamped with work mixing all these songs into atmos?

It's really great that Tidal and now Apple is allowing access to all these old masters that these engineers never had access to in the past.<sarcasm>

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If you're genuinely curious, you can peruse any of several threads from a year or so ago that include posts about some of the big-name engineers who had signed on to mixing in Atmos, and about Dolby's overall strategy for working with Universal to equip more studios and train more mixers. (In the May 2020 issue of Mix magazine, a few of those engineers specifically discussed their mixing techniques for back-catalogue stuff.) More recently, people have posted lists of the dozens of studios--well over 100 at this point, I think--in the US and around the world equipped for Atmos, as well as promotional videos of engineers from some of those studios talking about their work.

I've been as skeptical as anyone of Dolby's hype and the streaming services' handling of Atmos. The vaunted 10,000 tracks have not yet materialized--I think the last tally I saw of what was available on Tidal was more like 2500 and counting (although that seems low to me), and too many of those are accounted for by contemporary pop and R&B that I don't care for; "hall ambience" remixes of classical material, new and old, on DG and associated labels; and underwhelming treatments of classic Blue Note albums. But in the past couple of weeks, it seems like the floodgates have finally begun to open. There's clearly a lot of newer stuff in the pipeline and probably more old stuff in holding tanks. As for the legacy tracks: many of them are ho-hum, but a few are truly impressive. A handful of newer releases are downright mind-blowing. Some mixers are more famous or more talented or more daring than others, many are still learning, and in any case Tidal has been inconsistent at best about including mixing credits in their metadata. But I don't see any reason to suspect a vast upmixing conspiracy, or to doubt that over the past two years, a couple hundred mixers would have been able to tackle 10,000 tracks between them.
 
If you're genuinely curious, you can peruse any of several threads from a year or so ago that include posts about some of the big-name engineers who had signed on to mixing in Atmos, and about Dolby's overall strategy for working with Universal to equip more studios and train more mixers. (In the May 2020 issue of Mix magazine, a few of those engineers specifically discussed their mixing techniques for back-catalogue stuff.) More recently, people have posted lists of the dozens of studios--well over 100 at this point, I think--in the US and around the world equipped for Atmos, as well as promotional videos of engineers from some of those studios talking about their work.

I've been as skeptical as anyone of Dolby's hype and the streaming services' handling of Atmos. The vaunted 10,000 tracks have not yet materialized--I think the last tally I saw of what was available on Tidal was more like 2500 and counting (although that seems low to me), and too many of those are accounted for by contemporary pop and R&B that I don't care for; "hall ambience" remixes of classical material, new and old, on DG and associated labels; and underwhelming treatments of classic Blue Note albums. But in the past couple of weeks, it seems like the floodgates have finally begun to open. There's clearly a lot of newer stuff in the pipeline and probably more old stuff in holding tanks. As for the legacy tracks: many of them are ho-hum, but a few are truly impressive. A handful of newer releases are downright mind-blowing. Some mixers are more famous or more talented or more daring than others, many are still learning, and in any case Tidal has been inconsistent at best about including mixing credits in their metadata. But I don't see any reason to suspect a vast upmixing conspiracy, or to doubt that over the past two years, a couple hundred mixers would have been able to tackle 10,000 tracks between them.
Well said @humprof !!
 
If you're genuinely curious, you can peruse any of several threads from a year or so ago that include posts about some of the big-name engineers who had signed on to mixing in Atmos, and about Dolby's overall strategy for working with Universal to equip more studios and train more mixers. (In the May 2020 issue of Mix magazine, a few of those engineers specifically discussed their mixing techniques for back-catalogue stuff.) More recently, people have posted lists of the dozens of studios--well over 100 at this point, I think--in the US and around the world equipped for Atmos, as well as promotional videos of engineers from some of those studios talking about their work.

I've been as skeptical as anyone of Dolby's hype and the streaming services' handling of Atmos. The vaunted 10,000 tracks have not yet materialized--I think the last tally I saw of what was available on Tidal was more like 2500 and counting (although that seems low to me), and too many of those are accounted for by contemporary pop and R&B that I don't care for; "hall ambience" remixes of classical material, new and old, on DG and associated labels; and underwhelming treatments of classic Blue Note albums. But in the past couple of weeks, it seems like the floodgates have finally begun to open. There's clearly a lot of newer stuff in the pipeline and probably more old stuff in holding tanks. As for the legacy tracks: many of them are ho-hum, but a few are truly impressive. A handful of newer releases are downright mind-blowing. Some mixers are more famous or more talented or more daring than others, many are still learning, and in any case Tidal has been inconsistent at best about including mixing credits in their metadata. But I don't see any reason to suspect a vast upmixing conspiracy, or to doubt that over the past two years, a couple hundred mixers would have been able to tackle 10,000 tracks between them.


I'm still confused as to how all those Master Tapes that are restricted access by the studios have suddenly been opened up to these small amount of Atmos mixers?

I mean, look at all the Masters that were lost in the great Fire, there will never be a true atmos mix of any of those tapes.

I guess what I'm saying is, it seems like 90% of these "true" atmos mixes you and others refer to now on Tidal are from newer generation artists that I, and probably you, don't care much about and we are only really interested in true atmos mixes from older generation Master tapes and just because Dolby is opening up atmos studios and adding more mixers doesn't mean any of those master tapes will suddenly have to become available to mix by the Studios who own them?
 
Its likely Apple will not stream lossless Atmos @ 48/24 due to bandwidth. Tidal is streaming lossy at 768kbps. Lossless would be 4000kbps or more.
I was not refering to Atmos content in my post, but the stereo high resolution audio.
 
If there can finally be a well-accepted, widely used surround audio format for songs, I think surround music has a brighter future than before.
It will forever be the same situation, that not many people will have the hardware to listen to surround, Atmos or whatever multichannel music. It is an expensive hobby. So I‘m glad for every action the companies are into the game of flying music around you. But also realistic…it will not be a breakthrough…
 
I'm wondering if the main reason those earlier recordings sound like an up-mix is simply due to how recordings were done in that era; sometimes with few tracks and open performance space in the studios creating channel bleed-through, effectively being non-discrete from the get go.
 
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I'm wondering if the main reason those earlier recordings sound like an up-mix is simply due to how recording were done in that era; sometimes with few tracks and open performance space in the studios creating channel bleed-through, effectively being non-discrete from the get go.


huh, early engineers were obsessed with laying down as many tracks as possible, not the other way around?

Today, it's accepted (which is why music sucks ass today), but back then was fought against until resistance (against the Studio) was futile
 
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