BecauseDVDAudioDoesntMatter.com?

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timbre4

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Current Goldmine issue #700 devotes 3 pages to BecauseSoundMatters.com and NEVER once mentions DVD-A. I calmly editied this letter over two days to channel my frustration in a hopefully constructive manner:

re: Platter Chatter
Warner/Reprise launches vinyl era

Hello,

It's certainly nice to read the hoopla over the recent announcement at BecauseSoundMatters.com, because music fans need a morale booster. But either through an oversight or editorial decision, part of the message was obscured. Here is the statement that some of us have practically memorized for the last four months:

Because Sound Matters is an on line record store that will sell all kinds of Vinyl and DVD-Audio from the Warner Bros. Records family of artists and labels. As you are probably aware there is an incredible amount of music around here...both old and new. The simple statement is, we are very lucky to be around all this amazing music and want to share.

I understand this article was written for a vinyl collector's column, but would it have been too much trouble to include just a sentence or two in italics to keep high resolution DVD-Audio fans in the know? As it stands, your article appears to be written about a site named BecauseDVDAudioDoesntMatter.com.

Is there some kind of conspiracy to keep people from knowing about DVD-A (and SACD) formats or is it just collective ignorance? We're still out here, just as devoted to our formats as the vinyl hounds because we believe in them strongly enough to keep enduring slaps in the face. At least vinyl fans got their wish with this article. Perhaps this is our Rodney Dangerfield moment; can high resolution audio get a little respect?

How many people know that there have already been high resolution versions of some of the biggest albums in music history? Beach Boys - Pet Sounds, Pink Floyd - Dark Side Of The Moon (SACD), Dire Straits - Brothers In Arms, David Bowie - Ziggy Stardust (SACD), Stage & David Live, Allman Brothers - Live At Fillmore East and Eat A Peach (SACD), Roxy Music - Avalon, Billy Joel - The Stranger, complete sets of studio albums by The Doors, Moody Blues (SACD), Seal, Talking Heads, R.E.M. (Warner albums), Elton John (1/2 done in SACD), not to mention releases by Led Zeppelin, The Who, Queen, Alice Cooper, James Taylor, Sting, Norah Jones, Nine Inch Nails, Steely Dan, Emerson, Lake & Palmer, Stone Temple Pilots, Donald Fagen, etc. [I know, save the column inches]

Let's not forget the breathtaking Love 5.1 DVD-A by some band called The Beatles. This should be a taste of exciting things to come, shouldn't it? Some artists with vision like Porcupine Tree and Bjork have even taken matters into their own hands, making sure these 5.1 mixes are available for fans. Don't you wish more artists stood up for their catalog? If the labels don't get it, they should license masters to the smaller firms who can satisfy our demand for product.

Why is it still a niche? Education through promotion comes first.

Would people buy these releases if they knew about them? Do they know that some of their DVD players either handle the high resolution tracks or support DTS / Dolby Digital 5.1 surround mixes that millions of home theatre setups are capable of playing back? People need to know that hybrid SACDs play in CD players and many DVD-A releases are bundled with a standard CD, allowing these products to provide further value with existing platforms. What are most music-related magazines doing to promote this? Not as much as we'd like to see. One incredible bright spot is the current Sound & Vision issue that declared their advance copy of the DVD-Audio version of Porcupine Trees' Fear Of A Blank Planet to be a REFERENCE quality disc a full six months before it's Sept 2007 commercial release.

Sadly, some of these titles have gone out of print lately and fetching big prices on eBay. We see BecauseSoundMatters.com as the logical solution to bring most or all of these back along with delivering mixes that we know have been completed already. Paul Simon - Graceland in 5.1 anyone? That mix has been completed for at least three years, just waiting for a release. Buying DVD-Audio from BecauseSoundMatters.com makes a lot of sense for us, eliminating all of the clueless clerks and non-supportive stocking and display of product in retail locations, lessening the frustration for hi-res surround fans.

Shame on the labels for under-promoting two competing formats and dropping support before reaching some market penetration. Shame on the retailers for not educating their people what the formats are and how to demonstrate them; Shame on the press for not educating themselves that a "DVD" doesn't always mean just some cheesy videos that will be soon forgotten about. To the contrary, the DVD-A discs provide rich repeat listening experiences.

As an 18 year Goldmine subscriber, I'm disappointed that news/reviews have missed facts about exciting surround releases. Excuse me, but the entire Genesis catalog being issued in the 5.1 surround format is a big deal indeed but there was nary a mention of that fact. Fans that have literally been waiting for years for these surround mixes to see the light of day have every right to feel slighted. It's just like walking into the music store and asking clueless clerks about an important release and getting nothing useful in return. We depend on media to get it right.

When the Cadillac commercials were blaring Led Zeppelin 5 years ago, it was the perfect time for a Led Zeppelin DVD-Audio catalog release. Can you imagine the promotional value for all concerned? This was possibly one of the greatest missed marketing opportunities ever. Several Acura models feature DVD-Audio as factory equipment; BOSE just introduced a head unit that plays DVDs, SACD and DVD-Audio so it's not exactly going away. We need new product to feed these jewels.

Labels are struggling today; what better way for them to cash in while also rewarding true music fans by mining their catalog again and releasing a steady flow of our new and old favorites in DVD-A? It's certainly no more ludicrous that doing vinyl in the 21st century, my friends. If you heard a proper DVD-Audio release you'd be in considerably less of a hurry to get that turntable out of the attic. Improved sound arrived several years ago, have an open mind and seek it out.

I request that Goldmine support high-resolution surround column as releases warrant. The hi-res surround format, whether known by DVD-A and SACD labels today, MVI or something else tomorrow, deserve proper coverage; because sound matters. Thanks for your time.

Respectfully, Tim

Friendly moderator at quadraphonic.com
Surround formats of yesterday, today and tomorrow
 
Great letter, hopefully someone will respond.

There is quite a lively bit of discussion at SHF as well with the Vinyl lovers poo poo'ing the DVDA bunch. Steve Hoffman has started a thread ref his remastering of various LP's for Warners (not one mention of any DVDA) in regards to the becausesoundmatters website.

The main discussions ref 'probably not a lot of DVD-A' was due to the fact that they will need to lawyer up and get renewed agreements and licensing for any DVDA releases (especially MC), but LP's they can just pay the guys to remaster them and out the door they go.

Will have to wait and see, but it is not looking good. The website seems to have the softest launch in the world for something that is supposed to have been up and running 1 May, with sales starting 1 June..... some of the LP's are already available at places like elusivedisc for pre-order.

Hell I'll take Stereo DVD-A, just give me Hi-Res. I buy both Stereo and MC SACD's, so wouldn't have a problem with Stereo only DVD-A.

Steves thread
http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=112018

DVDA lovers thread
http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=112944
 
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Nice job Tim!

Evryone dropped the ball on HiRez. I don't care if there are 4000+ SACDs listed on sa-cd.net, where the hell are they in the stores? DVD-Audio is about as hard to find these days as MD discs.

The labels had a great chance to move away from CD and dropped the ball, blaming lack of sales. DUH! If you put out a product and no one knows it exists, does that do anything to rectify the sales situation?

Even Acura, which I support by purchasing vehicles from, dropped the ball after the sale. Every Acura owner got a demo DVD-A, some great, some not so great. But, I have purchased 3 Acura's with DVD-Audio players in them, and I never recieved ONE follow up letter, email, offer, or other info regarding purchasing other DVD-Audios, or even a flyer telling me what existed.

There are hundreds of thousands of Acura's out there with surround players in them, and owners who have no clue about what they have, or even if they at one point tried to get discs, have given up.

The whole HiRez and HiRez surround deal now makes me more frustrated than ever.
 
Nice job Tim!

Evryone dropped the ball on HiRez. I don't care if there are 4000+ SACDs listed on sa-cd.net, where the hell are they in the stores?

Actually www.sa-cd.net now lists over 4,500 SACDs.

As for finding discs in stores, now that Tower Records is closed, how many people are still buying music discs of any kind in stores vs. on the web ?
 
Yes, excellent letter Tim, hope you get a proper response, it is to bad that the labels don't have a clue about marketing something that could have been very special. Hopefully more artists like Steve Wilson will keep the ball rolling.

peter...
 
It's great to be pro SACD, we all know we'd buy more if there were more. The UK releases are proof of that. But it's pretty sad that the SACD founder's webpage for SACD hasn't changed in years.

http://www.sonymusic.com/sacd/

It's not sad, it's maddening, really.

As for the 4500 titles. Really, it's less than that. Many titles are out of print, limited editions, East Asian releases never meant for export, titles that have yet to appear, and titles listed more than once.

This is not to say that the site is not a great reference, as well as a place for HiRez fans to point to for a morale boost or to locate something they may have missed. The problem is that many titles listed just cannot be purchased anymore, which again is quite depressing........
 
If they release stereo only DVD-A I personally won't be interested.

I will be.
Not as interested as I would for Multichannel, and this interest would disappear completely if the brutal overcompression we are hearing in Red Book CD starts to creep into High Rez.

To me, a well crafted Stereo mix is fine, and there are many classic albums where the multitracks just no longer exist.
The 5 Jesus & Mary Chain discs on DVD-A are great examples of how good it an be in stereo in every bit the same manner as the vast majority of Silverline titles are examples of how NOT to do Surround.
 
Thanks to all, it was the least I could do.

I was profoundly irritated by the article and wanted them to know they were "busted" as directly contributing to the DVD-A identity problem!

Since the labels don't get it, why can't DTS (or another player) step in and license some titles from them?
 
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It's great to be pro SACD, we all know we'd buy more if there were more. The UK releases are proof of that. But it's pretty sad that the SACD founder's webpage for SACD hasn't changed in years.

http://www.sonymusic.com/sacd/

It's not sad, it's maddening, really.


Talk about insanity! Sony toilets their own SACD format years ago.
But wait! Sony's got a brand new mobile SACD unit.

http://www.xplodsony.com/video/av_centers/MEX-DV2000

If a company ever deserved to fail, it is Sony.
 
I will be.
Not as interested as I would for Multichannel, and this interest would disappear completely if the brutal overcompression we are hearing in Red Book CD starts to creep into High Rez.


It already has. Case in point: Yes 'Fragile' DVD-A. Extremely compressed.
 
" Actually www.sa-cd.net now lists over 4,500 SACDs."

Special thanks to Sony marketing agents everywhere :fly: Great letter , Tim . Maybe we could have a mini-petition we could sign up to on the site to show support ?

~M~
 
A petition is a good idea but they have got to hear our message pretty loud and clear by now. I'll give it a few more days and then maybe go with it.
 
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There is quite a lively bit of discussion at SHF as well with the Vinyl lovers poo poo'ing the DVDA bunch. Steve Hoffman has started a thread ref his remastering of various LP's for Warners (not one mention of any DVDA) in regards to the becausesoundmatters website.

Vinyl collectors are still a larger crowd than multichannel or hi-rez enthusiasts, hence their reaction....and anyway, a lot of folks just aren't interested in MC, whether they collect vinyl or CD. Their loss, never understood the logic....

As for Steve, remember that his preference has always been stereo(check out his '80s VINTAGE MUSIC comps on MCA, among others, for proof). However, were he offered the chance to mix and master in MC, he might well say yes. He also masters a lot of vinyl, which explains why vinyl hounds are big fans of his, as I am...:D But I tend to range far and wide in terms of formats, so as to maximize my options depending on where I am or what I find.

ED :)
 
When I was a Gort, Steve let me know that he indeed did a MultiChannel mix of a VERY classic WB LP. In fact, those who remember will recall him asking for ideas in how exactly to create the mix. Anyway, he did the project, but I was told it was "rejected by the artist(s people)".

Hmmm. Interesting to note, it's one of the titles slated for release in LP from BSM. PS - Please don't ask me for the title, as I was told this in confidence.
 
If SH doesn't have passion for MCH then I can't see how he would do a very convincing job. That's why Elliot Scheiner is such a beacon and the other great mixers who had to secure work in other assignments.

What would Elliot do? He's been behind the vehicular ELS system for DVD-A at Panasonic for several years and now stands ready to introduce their home version of ELS very soon.

He has got to be bewildered at the industry backslide and potential indifference going on at such a time he's putting himself on the line for the surround music cause.
 
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Well the Word over at another Forum is that Warner is Dropping DVD-A because of the Cost "Right Now" and is Gonna Focus on Vinyl :(
 
If SH doesn't have passion for MCH then I can't see how he would do a very convincing job...
I hinted at this once over at SH and got an immediate and severe dogpiling, led by none other than SH himself. Seriously, people who don't enjoy surround-sound should not be creating surround mixes.
 
If SH doesn't have passion for MCH then I can't see how he would do a very convincing job.

Who said he doesn't have passion? It's really about opportunities. Also remember, Steve came up in a time, like me, when mono 45's and Lp's were reference sources, not the 'inferior' or 'bastard' items some stereo elitists consider such things today.

That's why Elliot Scheiner is such a beacon and the other great mixers who had to secure work in other assignments.

Agreed that he is among the best, but he can *only* master; he can't force release. No Steely Dan 5.1's yet, and maybe he's worked on other titles we may never hear.....


ED :)
 
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