HFPA Problems?

[neil wilkes]

I am trying not to lead the input so I ask again - what are the problems ?

What problems? These are single stream discs in the main, with one stereo mix in LPCM & 2 lossless codec forms as well for some bizarre reason (sponsored deal somewhere, maybe, with Dolby & DTS)
Have you had problems with any of them? If not, then I am sorry but I fail to understand the question or even the reason for it.
It's generally better to buy the record than to look for a problem before you even try!

 

[OppoFood]

What problems? These are single stream discs in the main, with one stereo mix in LPCM & 2 lossless codec forms as well for some bizarre reason (sponsored deal somewhere, maybe, with Dolby & DTS)
Have you had problems with any of them? If not, then I am sorry but I fail to understand the question or even the reason for it.
It's generally better to buy the record than to look for a problem before you even try!

The problem is that there seems to be no problem.

I was curious if the question would bring out any real gripes and version wars like we see sometimes with SACD v DVD-A. (I suppose I was playing Devils Advocate)

Apart from the lack of video and lack of "extras" all seems to be well apart from the odd report of certain disks not playing on the 105 (I think).

IMO the lack of video is not an issue, I listen to music on pure Audio settings so any video is off anyway, if available it might be watched once but that would be about it. Also there was no video on LPs or Tapes.

The lack of "extras" also does not worry me, it seems like a call to "King Size" it at McDonald's.

I would think there is more chance of getting Hi-Rez to the masses via this medium than any other which has to be a good thing.

As for the lack of 5.1 hopefully that will come in time but the uptake has to be there for a medium with the capacity to carry it.

I own three HFPA disks (Sea Change, Breakfast In America and Nevermind) have one on the way GYBR (plus a copy for LizardKing) plus the DSOTM Blu-Ray and have no issues with any of them.

Owning the SACD of a OOP rarity such as LoveBox has a kind of magic to it but I could have bought six or seven HFPA disks for what I paid so a format that appeals to the masses and encourages the labels to release more has got to be good.

Yes they could be seen to be gouging more cash out of our pockets by re-releasing old albums but the real market is the great unwashed. We, erm.... audiophiles, are only a minority they certainly haven't been released purely for us.

 

[Wildman]

HFPA disks suffer the same problem that all the other formats have had since the beginning of multichannel audio. Not enough people know that they even exist. Without a high profile title and a marketing push, HFPA will suffer the same fate as DVD-A and SACD.

When I first heard about the high res audio formats, I bought a universal player to be ready for them. The only SACD I came across was Dark Side of The Moon and would have bought more, but never saw any more in my local record stores. If they did have any, they were not easily noticed. By the time I found out about the other titles that came out, they were out OOP. If not for the internet and a little curiosity, I still wouldn't know about them.

If HFPA can get the right title and more people to know about it, there is a chance it could replace the CD as the physical media for audio. If not, it will be just another missed opportunity.

After buying high res downloads for a while, the Yes 5.1 disks have brought me back to wanting a physical media disk. I hope that a high res format can be settled on before downloads take over completely. I just don't feel the value in a file on the computer compared to an actual physical product.

 

[OppoFood]

I agree total Wildman, I bought my Oppo purely to play DSOTM and the only way to justify the cost was to be able to play blu-ray.

But then it needed feeding so more SACDs followed along with DVD-A.

However with the HFPA disk the players are all ready in place which was not the case previously with the other formats.

As for downloads I just can't get excited, it is not the same as physically fighting the cellophane and popping into the disk drawer I am afraid. I'm no luddite either when it comes computers.

 

[blue.monk]

The problem is no current plan to release Blue Moves!

 

[Circular Vibes]

My Oppo is hungry too! I've already fed it well over the last two weeks, and it is still not enough. As to problems, I don't see any except when I put in my HFPA of Goodbye Yellow Brick Road the first time it would only give me stereo. After playing another multichannel disc and returning to GYBR I got the menu for stereo/surround. I don't know why it happened, but all is well now.

 

[Time Lord]

I am really hoping the masses are enchanted by HFPA because if they are, a commercially viable product could reverse the inevitable decline to low res disposable music for the first time since itunes came out. Another possible benefit is the adoption of blu-ray audio capabilities in cars which has been the major reason for me to hold on to DVD-As so dearly. Greater multichannel support will eventually come too if it is successful.

 

[OppoFood]

when I put in my HFPA of Goodbye Yellow Brick Road the first time it would only give me stereo. After playing another multichannel disc and returning to GYBR I got the menu for stereo/surround.

Maybe it was to ensure you checked out the new stereo mix before you went into the surround mix.

 

[Circular Vibes]

Hmmm. Interesting idea. However, the first time I put it in, there was no menu on the tv and it played automatically, the second time I got a menu for stereo and surround. A 2 channel conspiracy methinks??? Maybe SH is n on it.....

 

[Bob Squires Jr]

My gripe is still the fact that titles like D&D - Layla and Diana Krall are stereo only when 5.1 versions are well known to exist.
Instead of putting maybe the SHM-SACD stereo version & the Elliot Scheiner 5.1 together for Layla, they just used the stereo. As for Diana Krall... 4 of her
albums are in 5.1 SACD & DVD-A yet the HFPA is stereo only.
As for the Elton... I'd have liked to have seen the 4 additional tracks so I could have the BDA replace my DVD-A / SACD versions.
Now, I have 3 versions of the same album. 2 with extras and one in a format that I like.

 

[Quad Linda]

I feel your pain, Bob!

I know I'm being redundant. They got you to buy Elton three times, didn't they? Their mission is accomplished. I've had to buy multiple copies in order to get the bonus tracks, better fidelity and/or a 5.1 mix. Many albums include bonus tracks, only for them to be left off the (next) ultra deluxe "El Chumpo Mucho" version.

And they won't be happy until they get you to buy each album several more times.

My gripe is still the fact that titles like D&D - Layla and Diana Krall are stereo only when 5.1 versions are well known to exist.
Instead of putting maybe the SHM-SACD stereo version & the Elliot Scheiner 5.1 together for Layla, they just used the stereo. As for Diana Krall... 4 of her
albums are in 5.1 SACD & DVD-A yet the HFPA is stereo only.
As for the Elton... I'd have liked to have seen the 4 additional tracks so I could have the BDA replace my DVD-A / SACD versions.
Now, I have 3 versions of the same album. 2 with extras and one in a format that I like.

 

[fredblue]

Maybe it was to ensure you checked out the new stereo mix before you went into the surround mix.

Could be FWIW, its a very nice remaster (particularly by modern standards but also in its own right) of an album that needs it imho.

I've heard people rave about the SHM-SACD which is a flat transfer of the stereo mixdown master but its a bit lifeless to me.. whereas the low end and mid on the new BDA Stereo have clearly had some tinkering but make the album really come alive (particularly Dee's bass & Elton's vocals are gorgeously full of detail and presence) without the top end being boosted to the point of fatiguing (a la Gus' remaster & the SACD Stereo).

 

[fredblue]

Hmmm. Interesting idea. However, the first time I put it in, there was no menu on the tv and it played automatically, the second time I got a menu for stereo and surround. A 2 channel conspiracy methinks??? Maybe SH is n on it.....

A glitch in the HFPA machine! They do behave strangely at times (I occasionally get video 'snow' when loading up HFPA's and have to reboot the BDP.. something that doesn't happen on any other disc format I throw at the CA BDP..) I suspect its either an HDMI handshaking or HDCP glitch. Haha.. I doubt SH is in on it.. but could be part of the wider pro-Stereo/anti-5.1 "movement".. after all, the HFPA bloke reckons its weird having a trumpet blaring out over your shoulder! D'oh!

 

[fredblue]

My gripe is still the fact that titles like D&D - Layla and Diana Krall are stereo only when 5.1 versions are well known to exist.
Instead of putting maybe the SHM-SACD stereo version & the Elliot Scheiner 5.1 together for Layla, they just used the stereo. As for Diana Krall... 4 of her
albums are in 5.1 SACD & DVD-A yet the HFPA is stereo only.
As for the Elton... I'd have liked to have seen the 4 additional tracks so I could have the BDA replace my DVD-A / SACD versions.
Now, I have 3 versions of the same album. 2 with extras and one in a format that I like.

As Linda has said a few times, they can sell you the same thing again and again and again and...

 

[neil wilkes]

One reason for the 'no video' mantra is that adding video means a whole new set of rights has to be negotiated and added to the cost of production. Plus they're determined to pretend that they're creating a 'new format' by excluding video - 'It's like a CD, but better!' except for not being able to punch in a number on the remote to choose a song, or choose an audio stream by pushing the audio button, etc. etc.

Only in the early Universal HFPA implementation, and this is changing. Track access is a part of PA-BD and should be in the next batch of Universal titles, and changing audio with the AUDIUO button is a no0n starter simply because all players handle this differently. Some sweitch immediately, some restart the track, others glitch & reset the HDMI handshake - it's a bloody mess out there. This is why we use the colour buttons to switch streams when these are done right.

 

[Woody71]

The only problem from my POV is the lack of 5.1 mixes.

Doing an A/B general contrast with Genesis' SEBTP in SACD and HFPA (one of two titles I can reference for both formats), the HFPA has a little more depth in the bass... and the bonus of being able to be played on any BD player. There is a HFPA display of 8-10 titles in my local store, which is a concept that I've not seen before locally in my years of surround listening. That's gotta be a positive surely.

 

[fredblue]

The only problem from my POV is the lack of 5.1 mixes.

Doing an A/B general contrast with Genesis' SEBTP in SACD and HFPA (one of two titles I can reference for both formats), the HFPA has a little more depth in the bass... and the bonus of being able to be played on any BD player. There is a HFPA display of 8-10 titles in my local store, which is a concept that I've not seen before locally in my years of surround listening. That's gotta be a positive surely.

We used to have DVD-Audio displays & dedicated racks in Virgin Megastore Tottenham Court Road & HMV Oxford Street here in London. SACDs (and later DualDiscs) were just lumped in with the regular CDs in both branches.

 

[Woody71]

We used to have DVD-Audio displays & dedicated racks in Virgin Megastore Tottenham Court Road & HMV Oxford Street here in London. SACDs (and later DualDiscs) were just lumped in with the regular CDs in both branches.

DVD-A's were a 'special order' here in Oz.
As a point of reference, I saw Dire Straits 'Brothers In Arms' SACD lumped in with the rest of their catalogue only today, as was the SACD/DVD copy of Genesis' "Duke".

The display I referenced is a stand-alone cardboard structure about 5 feet high with initial and more recent HFPA titles featured within (eg. Queen, Bob Marley, Genesis, Lenny Kravitz, Elton John). For a 'niche' format in a regional area south of Sydney, I was pleasantly surprised to see it.

 

[Time Lord]

DVD-A's were a 'special order' here in Oz.
As a point of reference, I saw Dire Straits 'Brothers In Arms' SACD lumped in with the rest of their catalogue only today, as was the SACD/DVD copy of Genesis' "Duke".

The display I referenced is a stand-alone cardboard structure about 5 feet high with initial and more recent HFPA titles featured within (eg. Queen, Bob Marley, Genesis, Lenny Kravitz, Elton John). For a 'niche' format in a regional area south of Sydney, I was pleasantly surprised to see it.

I presume it is JB HiFi you are talking about, I haven't seen them anywhere else, I agree it is exciting, I would like to support it locally if I can which means less business for Amazon and Burning Shed but they have done very well out of me for the past 5 years. At the moment it is only HFPA but who knows what it will be like next year.....we can but dream

 

[fredblue]

DVD-A's were a 'special order' here in Oz.
As a point of reference, I saw Dire Straits 'Brothers In Arms' SACD lumped in with the rest of their catalogue only today, as was the SACD/DVD copy of Genesis' "Duke".

The display I referenced is a stand-alone cardboard structure about 5 feet high with initial and more recent HFPA titles featured within (eg. Queen, Bob Marley, Genesis, Lenny Kravitz, Elton John). For a 'niche' format in a regional area south of Sydney, I was pleasantly surprised to see it.

The old flagship HMV had a DVD-Audio section right up until about 5 years ago (no actual cardboard display that I ever saw) the section got progressively smaller.. from a bank of say 4 or 5 rows/columns of discs, down to 3.. then two.. then one row.. until one day.. it disappeared altogether!

Having witnessed that, I popped down to the Classical department (downstairs) which had a small section of DVD-A's of its own, I bought the entire remaining inventory (which wasn't much but gave a cheap boost to my DVD-A collection at the time).

in hindsight I should have bought all HMV had left in the Rock/Pop DVD-A section when they were reduced to between £6-£16 a pop.. though to be fair DVD-A's haven't generally appreciated as much as SACDs, outside of the v.sought after ones, of which there really aren't a lot.

shopping in the new flagship HMV store is a pretty sobering experience.. all genres lumped in together on the 1st Floor.. just three HFPA's lumped in with the BD music videos (two of them Classical - Stereo, the other "Tommy").. only one solitary SACD that I could find (Brothers In Arms), not one SACD in the Classical or Jazz sections.. lots of floorspace given over to LPs though.